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Last October, Ron, a 55-year-old construction analyst for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), was furloughed for 43 days as the Trump administration took a sledgehammer to federal agencies’ budgets under the Department of Government Efficiency, an initiative led by the world’s richest man, Elon Musk.

“We voted for Trump, not realizing that he was going to slam as hard as he did, but it was on day one when he sat down, right after inauguration, and started signing those executive orders and just trashed us federal employees, it was a kick in the teeth,” Ron said.

“If people would just listen and research and do something other than just listen to Fox News, we may all be better off, but it's going to take an open mind and an ability to say, ‘I made a mistake,’ because once you say you made a mistake, you can turn the ship around,” said Chrissey Kelley, 50, a stay-at-home mom.

Speaking out against MAGA cost the Kelleys relationships with friends and family members who support Trump, but in sharing their story, they hope to inspire others having doubts about the GOP. 

“It's okay to be wrong. You made a mistake, it was a bad choice, but it's not the end of the world. We can fix it. We just got to ride it out and hold strong and support each other through it,” Ron said.

. . . Chrissey said she became a Republican as soon as she started voting.

“You were just a conservative. There was no thought behind it. You listen to Fox News, and you listen to conservative outlets, and you're spoon-fed,” Chrissey said.

Ron, who served in the military for 25 years, said the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”

When he couldn’t find work in Detroit, he moved to Georgia. He supported Republicans because he associated them with bigger spending on defense.

Ron said he supported Trump with donations, bumper stickers and the “whole nine yards” of MAGA.

“I bought into the lie about the stolen election and all that, and I thought January 6 insurrectionists were actually patriots,” Ron said.

“I just remember being content with thinking that he was what we needed, and he was going to drain the swamp in Washington until he got into office this third term, and realizing that I was dumb as a rock, and I believed everything that I was spoon fed.”

. . . “Just watching the policies of what's happening in our world today unfold one by one by one, I just started drawing up very different conclusions and found out that I was clueless, and most people are today, but now I'm awake and looking at it for what it is, and I cannot believe that he had my support,” Chrissey said.

“It's lie after lie after lie.”

Ron said he now votes for Democrats, and Chrissey said she considers herself an Independent but has voted for Democrats three times now, something she “never thought in my entire life” would happen. 

“The road we're headed down now, if we don't turn this truck around, we're so close to going off the edge of the cliff that we need to stick together,” Ron said.

“We need to put our country back together. It might take decades, but don't give up. We need to be vocal. Stay strong, and follow our laws and Constitution, and hold strong with our values, not the values that the MAGA claims that we have, but the values that we've had in the past 250 years from the founding of the country til Joe Biden's era.”

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[–] 151 points 5 months ago (26 children)

My favorite part was when he said they lost their home in the housing collapse, blamed Dems, and then voted Republican because....of spending on defence.

Defence spending doesn't help the housing market but you do you. At least they finally woke up.

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  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    Yeah I got pretty confused there. Wasn’t Bush president leading up to 2008 and the market crash? So it was the dems fault? Faux news has done an impressive brain rot.

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  • [–] 85 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    Even NOW they still can't understand that the deregulation of banks which directly caused the 2008 collapse, was entirely Bush's policies... if anything Obama's bailout probably saved his home

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  • [–] 53 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    The deregulation of the banks started under Clinton and was finished under Bush Jr. It was unfortunately not only a GOP thing.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Some observers have persuasively argued that the Glass-Steagall act, which Clinton famously repealed, was already moot by the time he repealed it, that the banking business had figured out legal workarounds for all the activities it was intended to prevent.

    The point being, not to excuse Clinton or any political party, but to recognize that the creeping greed of finance isn't something that can be blamed on one or two actors. It's built in to the incentives, the values, the culture.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Some observers have persuasively argued that the Glass-Steagall act, which Clinton famously repealed, was already moot by the time he repealed it, that the banking business had figured out legal workarounds for all the activities it was intended to prevent.

    So you don't repeal it you update it to fix the holes.

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  • [+] -30 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Gas prices caused the 2008 collapse. The real estate market is what hurt the rich people, so that's what we still hear about.

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  • [–] 31 points 5 months ago

    It was rich people that caused the collapse, not gas prices. Banks gave out variable interest rate loans, which are risky and predatory, to people that didn't have the credit/income to afford houses. The banks then turned all of those variable rate home loans into housing related securities, which let investors in those programs earn interest on buying a tiny slice of the mortgages. Now the investors need the line to go up. What happens? Those variable rates on those mortgages get jacked up to make profit for the investors. Now Joe Schmoe can't afford his mortgage, defaults on the loan, and loses his house. What happens next? All of those variable rate loans had mortgage insurance, which pays the lender when the borrower defaults on the loan/mortgage. What happens next, the collapse of entities that insured those loans. What happens next? We, the fucking tax payers bail them the fuck out. What happens next? The rich greedy assholes find a new thing required for existence to turn into a commodity to squeeze us more; like healthcare.

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  • [–] 73 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    No, they didn't wake up.

    They stuck with Trump through

    1. Child rape and trafficking with Epstein
    2. The subsequent Epstein cover up
    3. Felonly fruad
    4. Jan 6th insurrection
    5. Being the most drone happy president in his first term
    6. Unyielding loyalty to Israel
    7. Alienating US allies
    8. Destroying US international standing
    9. Killing countless with mass defending and killing of social services and aid
    10. The clusterfuck that was his handling of Covid, or lack there of
    11. The Epstein memorial ballroom
    12. The Arch De Epstein

    Etc.

    These people are still functionally sociopaths and fascists. They're just upset that now its affecting their wallets.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Small government people when the government is military spending:

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I remember talking to a winger about his defense contractor job. He was raging out about "government workers" wasting "his money", and so on. This was under Obama and he had just seen two people driving in a county truck on his way to work in the morning - he apparently seemed to think having more than one person doing that job was wasteful?

    Anyway, I asked him, point blank - "but isn't YOUR job basically a government job?"

    I thought the guy was going to pop a vein waving his arms around and yelling how it was the PRIVATE SECTOR, we have to WIN CONTRACTS with the big old mean government, and etc. I remain calm and ask: yeah, but if they are private sector, who are their customers? Are they going to sell weapons to our enemies? Why do you have to get a GOVERNMENT CLEARANCE for that job by the way?

    I'm sure the guy is absolutely all-in on Donvict these days and still repeating bullshit mantras about "small government", etc. The guy had full-blown Obama Derangement Syndrome, that's for sure...

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I used to work in a pretty right wing office as a government contractor. One day a couple people were standing around complaining about the government and one of the women said "the government has never created a single job". She was on a military base working as a government contracter. She was also in the national guard and engaged to an active duty sailor. I had to walk away at that point.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    The great recession started a year before Obama took office, but of course it is pinned to him.

    Same as covid happened year before Biden but somehow it is Biden's fault.

    Democrats always have to cleanup the shit Republicans make and get blamed for it.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    wish idiots would stop voting for these leeches stealing tax money to enrich themselves and generally not giving a fuck about the population other than the megarich

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  • [–] 46 points 5 months ago

    Typical myopic stance. "I had no idea it was bad until it started to impact me." The complete and total lack of empathy from people is a core problem I don't care what political side you are on. How can you be so selfish to not think about impactful others around you? Do you live on an island of one? Are your fellow citizens nothing to you?

    Social media has allowed us to slip even more into a solipsist mindset.

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  • [–] 37 points 5 months ago*

    He literally goes “this third term” at one point in the article. And that we need to go back to the morals this country had up until “Joe Biden’s term” He hasn’t learned a thing.

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  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    “It’s okay to be wrong. You made a mistake, it was a bad choice, but it’s not the end of the world."

    Uhm about that ...

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  • [–] 30 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    It's heartbreaking that they only ditch maga when it negatively affects them, but yet wildly cheer maga when it negatively affects their fellow Americans.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago

    These people are traitors and I'm done trying to pretend they're not.

    Liberals vote so even the people they don't like can have a good education and healthcare and social safety nets in case they get fired/laid off/hurt.

    Conservatives vote to hurt others, which inevitably hurts themselves too.

    They are traitors to their nation because they don't care about the wellbeing of their nation and their fellow citizens.

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  • [–] 55 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”

    So the last year of Bush's second term. What a fucking idiot.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Lol that's how far I got and just fucking Roflcoptered....like how fucking dumb can you be...

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    This disillusionment may refer to the D response to the 2008 crash (Obama's first term, too big to fail, doubling down on Bush's TARP, Tea Party, etc.).

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago

    Yes. the way Obama and his administration dealt with that crash was poorly thought out (to be charitable), but I really don't think from what I read, this guy was that nuanced in his thinking. Probably more along the lines of "Democrats are bad therefore this is their fault."

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  • [–] 25 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    Wait a minute, I hadn't read it until now.

    Ron, who served in the military for 25 years, said the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”

    Who was in office when this happened, you stupid fuck? Was is a man named George W Bush? Was he a dem? I don't appreciate the dems (they don't do anything but perpetuate the status quo; I want socialism), but this man betrays his lack of thought with that quote.

    Ron said he supported Trump with donations, bumper stickers and the “whole nine yards” of MAGA.

    I always found it funny that stupid people sent money to "a rich guy" for the first campaign. Of course, his many failing businesses don't matter after the graft of his second term. Whether he was close to insolvency or not, he's got a lot of money now.

    “I bought into the lie about the stolen election and all that, and I thought January 6 insurrectionists were actually patriots,” Ron said.

    "I thought stupid, violent criminals were good people. Like the guy wearing the Auschwitz tshirt who was in a lot of media."

    realizing that I was dumb as a roc

    Oh my fucking god, he said exactly the thing I said about some other right-wing assholes!

    The wife:

    I just started drawing up very different conclusions and found out that I was clueless, and most people are today, but now I'm awake and looking at it for what it is

    No, most of us aren't. You're just a fucking dumbass. Others read and learn and check facts and verify what people say. I'm not clueless. There's a lot that I don't know, but I am not someone who just listens to a blowhard and nods my head like you did. Wait, let me put gauze on my ear to show support for some jackass who loots my country because I don't know what's real and what's not. We need a ballroom!!!!

    Ron said he now votes for Democrats, and Chrissey said she considers herself an Independent but has voted for Democrats three times now, something she “never thought in my entire life” would happen.

    Well, I'm sorry to say that the dems will disappoint and these people will return to fringe right-wing bullshit as a result. We need actual leadership and change. I voted for Bernie but he's retiring and even he wouldn't call out the genocide in Gaza (fuck israel). Give us people who want to upend the system to take care of people and tax billionaires, I promise they'll get votes. Instead, Chuck Schumer will blah blah blah blah blah and Nany Pelosi will retire on a pile of money.

    "One of the Greatest Wall Street Investors of All Time Announces Retirement"[0]

    1. https://www.404media.co/nancy-pelosi-one-of-the-greatest-wall-street-investors-of-all-time-announces-retirement/
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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Is the Trump administration the worst fascist ever? Their policies are very anti-ordinary people. At least most other fascists have "socialist" policies to appease the population for as long as possible. The Trump regime's broad policy, in every sense of the word, is "fuck you, got mine." What a baffling buffoon. But my guess is that Trumpian fascism is more rooted from American individualism; which makes Trump an outlier.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    They’re speed running fascism, but they never finished reading the history on how those kinds of regimes ended.

    Long live Caesar.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    they never finished reading the history on how those kinds of regimes ended.

    Because it is all emotions. Fascism is the rejection of reason.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Who was in office when this happened, you stupid fuck? Was is a man named George W Bush? Was he a dem? I don’t appreciate the dems (they don’t do anything but perpetuate the status quo; I want socialism), but this man betrays his lack of thought with that quote.

    To be fair, the response to the financial crisis happened in one of the brief times when Democrats had the presidency and a supermajority in Congress and the bailout didn't really impact ordinary people very much. I think if they'd have gone full FDR they'd have had majorities for a long time after that, but they didn't.

    But, yeah, the rest of it is bullshit.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, yeah, it’s true. But you’re just repeating what they said and then adding “Duh!!”

    I dunno, they’re agreeing to speak out, it’s not nothin’. Yes, they’ve enabled genocide and fascism but no more so than those who didn’t vote at all.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    ...and they're speaking to fellow Trumpers saying "you're not the only fools".

    I know we all want to shout "leopards ate your face!", but this is what shifting opinions will look like.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

    All the things Trump is doing was laid out in Project 2025. I was begging people to read it and all of my mouth breathing friend just ignored me. I really don't have friends anymore and I am OK with that. This dumb fuck claiming he did know Trump would do this just ignored the warnings because he thought Trump was only going to fuck the libertards. So the leopard eats his face and he cries.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Trump himself said he'd never heard of it, which for some was apparently all the evidence they needed, regardless of all of the other giant, glaring warning signs.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Imagine having a brain that, without question, believes the words of a lifelong grifter, prolific liar, felon, rapist, and pedophile.

    Yeah, there's no coming back from that kind of brain damage.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Thing is, I went to that site several times before the election, and throughout the summer of 2024 was a big "Apply Now" link at the top in the upper right. If you clicked it, it asked you if you wanted a career with the new Trump administration and invited you to submit your resume, especially if your area of experience pertained to any of the Project 2025 policy objectives. This is an article with a screenshot of that front page in the summer of 2024.

    So when people threw that shit at me, my immediate response was, "So you haven't applied for a job with the planned administration? Because Project 2025 is taking Trump administration applications right now."

    And they'd shut the fuck up, which was always the desired effect. I don't know if they ever went and saw it for themselves, but they could have if they'd looked. It was always there.

    Note: I went back to archive.org to see if they still have what I am talking about, but the only available archived versions of the page are from earlier in 2024 when the big red "Apply Now" button led to hiring for Project 2025 itself. Anything that would show the changed version I'm talking about has now been removed and the blue links all go to a redirect, not an archived page. The Library of Congress has it, but the archived site can only be accessed in-person, so it's pretty clear the administration has cleared it from the net themselves.

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  • [–] 44 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    “It’s okay to be wrong. You made a mistake, it was a bad choice, but it’s not the end of the world. We can fix it. We just got to ride it out and hold strong and support each other through it,” Ron said.

    Absolutely astounding how Americans care NOTHING about anyone that is not themselves. The orange pedophile has literally been directly responsible for the slaughter of THOUSANDS and that fact does not even register with this piece of shit

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    We Americans have, unfortunately, a very individualist society. That sort of thinking prevents us from acting in the best interest of people who are not ourselves because we don’t see the immediate benefit to ourselves.

    It’s extremely shortsighted, foolish, selfish, and the exact opposite of the message the dominant religion in the nation preaches. But it’s hard to shake that kind of cultural thinking. That journey took me a while, and I started in a more “advantageous” position (in regard to this topic) than some because my parents instilled a deep sense of compassion and a desire for truth, even if they themselves are still stuck as single-issue pro-life republicans.

    Every individual who gets slapped out of their conservatism by personal consequences has a chance to end up breaking free and realizing how harmful myopic thought is, and I’m cheering for them even if they have a long way to go on their journey.

    What is the most important step? The next one. Always the next step.

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  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Imagine working FOR the government and ever voting for the party of small government.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago

    I work for my county, I have coworkers who are proud that they don't vote and don't follow politics

    WE. WORK. FOR. THE. GOVERNMENT! Go up the food chain from us a couple steps and our boss', boss', boss' boss or something along those lines is an elected official! You're basically passing up an opportunity to choose who your boss is, and those elections often end up happening on off years when there's no presidential or other big election going on and even less people turn out to vote, so your vote really counts.

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  • [–] 41 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    You know, it's great that they woke up at all, late as they are. Two less trump supporters, and if they can spread their story they might bring a few of their friends and neighbors along with them. Give them a place to vent their discontent without being shunned by "liberals" or brainwashed in maga echo chambers.

    But I had to laugh at this:

    Ron, who served in the military for 25 years, said the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”

    Obama didn't even take office until 2009. What a dumbass.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    Yes, I think we need to give them and others a soft landing spot where they can save at least a little face. We should help them lean into the narrative that “Trump lied and tricked his supporters into thinking he had virtuous, selfless objectives.” The more we scold them for not seeing what we’ve been screaming for over a decade, the more likely they will dig their heels in just to save face.

    Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful drug.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Have you ever heard about this little thing called the civil war that they had in the US, back in like 1860ish?

    They gave those guys a "soft landing" too and look how great that's been working out for the last 170ish years....

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Yeah exactly, it would be extremely counterproductive to give these people no way out

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    2024 was their way out, after the first term, after jan6, after sex change operations in prisons and Haitians eating cats and dogs, they knew what they were voting for. They wanted and voted for exactly this to happen, they're just upset it's happening to them instead of brown people.

    These people should never be allowed to vote in any election ever again, they have proven time and time again to be stupid, ignorant, bitter, racist, pieces of shit, and will continue to be stupid, ignorant, bitter, racist pieces of shit for the rest of their miserable lives. Because that's what they deserve.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    Or instead of being vindictive and reinforcing the cycles that force these people to not listen to you, and to vote against your interests every time out of spite, maybe you could give them an out and let them prove their sincerity by contributing to being part of the solution rather than the problem.

    Or you can just keep turning them around on their road to redemption and sending them right back to the enemy. And then wondering why the enemy still has a hold on 40% of the population...

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    At the same time, if they are able to just skip off into the sunset AGAIN we will be back here before long. Every. Single. Time. This shit happens, the shitty mother fuckers who wouldn't listen to a fucking word anyone said get to destroy society, enable the deaths of millions, and then go back to doing the crossword on Sundays because we have to give them an out so we can have a society.

    Fuck that. I want their faces ground on the fucking gravel. I want them to ALL know exactly how fucking moronic they are and to remember it for their entire lives.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    The people responsible, meaning the people at the top of their internal hierarchies, should be held accountable and shown no mercy. Even the people who enabled it by their support should be held accountable, at least to the degree that they contributed to the problem.

    But people willing to change should be given an opportunity to do so. I can't explain how counterproductive and idiot it is to reject your enemy's former supporters when they finally decide to turn on them. That is not how you win wars, especially when you're the underdog.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (2 children)

    I don't believe for a god damn second that WE are the underdogs. We may not be in the government but there are far fewer of them than us.

    I honestly don't believe them when they say they realized they were wrong. In the vast majority of cases, they are just now being affected by their policies. They are the exact same people who voted for trump 3 times. They haven't changed. I don't want to walk with them. I don't trust them.

    After the civil war, did we hold anyone to account? After the Nazis were defeated, were all officers and government officials held to account? Beyond that, did we hold any of the people who supported these ghoulish regimes, through bitter war and death, to account? Or did they just fold back in and disappear like snakes in the grass, dripping poison in the ears of society until they could foment more turmoil to take advantage of and seize power. It is generational.

    I refuse to allow them back into polite society with but an apology, if we are lucky, as you suggest.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    I mean they only control the police, military, prisons, and intelligence agencies and infrastructure. They've got the corporations in their pockets and a stranglehold on taxpayer dollars, a trifecta in the executive and legislative branches, with a stacked supreme court.

    But you're right, that totally doesn't make us the underdogs /s

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    You are absolutely right. But I still think that if people were slightly more motivated it would be a very one sided dispute. Motivation in the form of starvation is approaching. So I suppose we are the underdog because we are currently sleeping, but waking up.

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  • [–] 19 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I DON'T CARE

    IT'S TOO LATE

    YOU FUCKING TOOLS DID THE SAME THING WITH BUSH JR

    YOU WILL DO ALL THIS AGAIN BECAUSE YOU ARE IDIOTS

    None of this means anything. These people do not learn from mistakes. That is abundantly clear at this point. And in the unlikely scenario that this one actually did, they are such a vanishingly small percentage that it really just doesn't matter. The vast majority of conservative voters that actually are turning on Trump will NEVER, EVER, EVEN UNDER PAIN OF DEATH, vote for anything other than Republicans.

    That's how cults work.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Well, they did learn from their mistakes. Most of the time these stories are like 'it affects me now so I'm against it now', but these people took that selfish starting point and unpacked all the fox propaganda and how it all happened

    It is a cult; but some people leave cults

    I get that we all have to be really sceptical of 'reformed' Magas. Most of them will just be rats fleeing the sinking ship, with no actual reflection or admitted culpability

    But at the same time, I've marched with a block of skinhead ex-nazis who were violently opposed to racism now. People do change sometimes - people are able to unpick the propaganda they once bought into and grow

    So scepticism, absolutely. But a life-long condemnation of anyone who ever bought into Fox News, without exception, is not the way to go

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    "It's okay to be wrong. You made a mistake, it was a bad choice, but it's not the end of the world. We can fix it."

    Acknowledging a mistake only works if you them stop making that mistake. And I'm not convinced these or similar people will do that.

    How many red flags have they ignored? They didn't give a shit about other people being screwed over by him. It was only when it affected them that they started to question. He worked for the Federal government and was still bashing the shit out of it. They ignored the January 6th riots. They voted for the this THREE times. This is all typical maga idiocy, and the reason why we're in such a mess.

    I mean, I guess it's good they're seeing reality now. But holy shit. And these stories are basically pointless. Anyone who hasn't pulled their heads out of their asses by now won't because of other people's accounts like this. The only thing that will change their minds is personal hardships. And even then it's a toss-up.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (4 children)

    People consume media that is constantly lying to them, they are surrounded by people being fed the same lies, creating a feedback loop that suppresses any opposition. It's even worse these days with social media and algorithms, they just constantly get fed the lies, the propaganda.

    At least these people came around eventually. Lots of people dont think politics matters that much until it severely affects them. So its going to take that kick in the mouth, unfortunately. Even if they are still selfish in their change, at least it will help the masses.

    Saying "I told you so" doesnt really help, people like this were truly misguided and deluded.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    Boiling down the frustration of me and others in these situation to "you're just saying I told you so" is facile. We've been down the path of "yay, good job on seeing the light! Go you! One of us gobble gobble!" far too many times. And it doesn't do shit. Like I say, I guess it's good they finally saw the light. But I'm not going to give this couple a proverbial medal or lavish them with praise for finally seeing the fucking obvious.

    And like I say, relaying these stories doesn't help either. At this point anyone maga who hasn't realized the error of their ways can only learn through the direct consequence of their action. They won't change their mind because some maga HUD employee three states over got screwed. That's not how this works.

    Edit: fixed an autocorrect error.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago*

    You dont have to flip to the other extreme. Nobody is saying to praise these people, just don't shun them. Perhaps they already voted out of spite, maybe they will again.

    It's in our best interest to have them away from the fascist cesspool, even if I don't give much of a shit about them personally, for what they previously had a hand in.

    Also, you dont know what people might see or read that changes their mind on something. Not sharing it at all is only negative. If someone who is deluded keeps seeing posts about it, maybe they will wonder why. Just scroll past it if it bothers you.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    people like this were truly misguided and deluded.

    And also inherently stupid. And stupid people tend to not truly learn from their mistakes.

    That is why I, and many others here, are skeptical.

    Yes, they were affected by propaganda and group think, but they also already experienced one failed presidency with this CONVICTED FELON and ADJUDICATED RAPIST and still threw in their support. That's actual stupidity, and not just influence from peers or "news" networks.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago*

    Of course they are stupid and they might always be stupid, but they can still vote, so we should try to keep them voting progressively instead of just telling them to fuck off and leaving them to vote for fascism again. I'm not saying to have empathy for them, as you said, they voted for a child rapist. Just get their vote, it's what we need. This doesn't just apply to the USA, but all over the world where fascism is now creeping in.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago

    "Ron, who served in the military for 25 years, said the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”" ...what? How unaware does someone have to be to say something like that? The GOP took (literally) the WH and held congress for most of the years leading up to the '08 Crash. I mean, not knowing that the GOP are the ones that led us into the Great Depression (a feat they're about to repeat) is one thing, but this moron was alive and presumably can read during the events he is describing.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    If only these people had figured it out after his first term. Oh wait, they weren't harmed personally in his first term.

    If someone said, "I was dumb, I didn't know he was going to cut off aid to starving people, didn't know he was going to send masked thugs into the streets to beat, kill, kidnap and disappear innocent people, didn't know he was going to start wars, didn't know he was going to betray all our allies and destroy any remaining drop of goodwill toward the US in the world, ... etc"

    Then I'd say, "yes, you were dumb, very fucking dumb, exceedingly dumb, but welcome to humanity. Some things are permanently ruined because you were so fucking dumb but now let's start picking up the pieces and try to create a better system than the one that allowed someone like trump to gain so much power."

    But it's never that. It's always, "I didn't know he was going to hurt MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago

    Great now we’re up to what 7 defectors? Just 70 million more to go.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago

    “You were just a conservative. There was no thought behind it. You listen to Fox News, and you listen to conservative outlets, and you're spoon-fed,” Chrissey said.

    My god, the clarity! Sadly, the people able to see it and recognize their error is vanishingly small. Most just seem to double down on their error and make excuses to justify their position.

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  • [–] 42 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Was? Nah you just jumped ship because it affected you negatively. You still dumber than a rock drooler.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    100% this. If he didn't lose his job he'd bend over backwards and take more of it.

    Ron, who served in the military for 25 years, said the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”

    When he couldn’t find work in Detroit, he moved to Georgia. He supported Republicans because he associated them with bigger spending on defense.

    He was so upset at the Democrats for the 2008 housing crisis (Which was caused by private equity, not the government, also remind me who was the fucking president in 2008? I seem to have lost my memory on that /s) that he moved to the south and supported increased spending on the military and defence instead of checks notes FUCKING HOUSING.

    Fuck this absolute twat.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Ron, who served in the military for 25 years, said the 2008 housing market crash left him “really disillusioned with the Democratic Party.”

    I lost it at that. The market fucking collapsed while Bush was president. That's some genuine "everything I know is from watching Focks Nooz"

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. These people were inundated with powerful propaganda and influential family structures and managed to escape it. MFing these people and calling them twats isn't going to win their hearts and minds and working people need as many allies as we can gather against a billionaire class that continues to tighten their grip.

    I'm just as frustrated as you and people like them voting these ghouls into power is the reason they're in power, but they speak some truth here and maybe they can convince some of their maga family to change course.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are big fans of spending on housing, not since the Red Scare of the 1950s. Investments in public goods carry a faint odor of socialism and are therefore verboten in the United States.

    The (Republican-led) government did play a role in bringing about the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis: George W. Bush's administration successfully lobbied for the abolition of regulations which had previously prevented people with insufficient credit from getting a mortgage approved.

    But of course the right wing narrative held Jewish bankers at fault for inner city types defaulting on their mortgages, bankrupting Lehman Brothers et al. Not a combination of deregulation and corporate greed.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago

    "...until he got into office this third term".... Yeah, the brainwashing is still in there. I don't think this reform is going to stick.

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  • [–] 24 points 5 months ago

    I promise they didn't stop believing terrible things. Don't consider these assholes "the good ones" or the ones "that converted". They hate people who aren't like them. They're probably racist (I don't know that). They're probably bigots against other religions (especially from Brown places). They just found out that the asshole they worshipped doesn't give a shit about them. They didn't become good people with positive values.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago*

    I know we gotta support people ammending their mistakes and all, but it's hard when he speaks like "Now we can turn the ship around and fix everything."

    ICE already killed people, they aren't getting revived.
    We can reverse his monetary problems at most and he talks as if that's the entire thing.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago*

    Good for them.

    I can't believe things have actually gotten so bad that people are getting directly affected and realizing they fell for the propaganda machine. I had hoped this might help counteract the regime. Let's see if it does.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago

    It's always "Not MY face!"

    It's never about actual values or morals or rights or principles. It's never about concern for family, friends, neighbors, fellow citizens.

    It's always "This isn't working out for ME."

    Maybe it's the nature of the news business. Maybe there are some who are changing their minds more quietly, who don't get profiled in the news.

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