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"Everyone's a little bit autistic"
"You're too normal to be autistic"
Litterly my coworkers used that first one... It annoys me so much. "We are all not normal here"
"Yes Janine. We all pee everyday. But can you understand the difference between peeing everyday and peeing so often each day that it disrupts other parts of your daily life?"
I swear I'm gonna use this next time I hear "everyone is a bit autistic".
What if it disrupts other people's lives more than my own?
This makes me lol because I work in an industry where people are extremely "not normal".
There are a handful of people who I would believe fit into the neurotypical category. But it's largely blue collar trades people who are at the top of their field so people are pretty accepting of quirks. It would be fascinating to study how under diagnosis of men in the trades compares to under diagnosis of "shy" women and girls.
Some example:
- people who would say they don't do math or stats but who have hockey draft spreadsheets that they fill out while watching live draft coverage.
- the people who I encounter in tunnels way after hours who are, like me, just trying to answer a question that's been bugging them and can't stop until they figure it out.
- the person who told me he was going to go home and build a model of the mixing system I described (was describing an existing system that is being operated incorrectly and how it should look) so that he could better understand it
- all the people who have the flat affect come out when they are dumping data (this warms my heart lol)
I'm on the fence about disclosing at work because if I get a response like that I will lose my mind and don't trust myself not to blurt out "half of y'all are autistic but aren't ready to hear that".
(That would be incredibly inappropriate for so many reasons)
Yeah. Not everyone is autistic; there are lots of other neurospicy reasons why people are the way they are.
I had a similar conversation with a date a few weeks ago. I told her that I am getting tested for autism in a few weeks.
"You don't seem autistic."
Then spent the next 15 minutes talking about Magic: The Gathering cards. She was very to forgiving and said, "Oh. I get it now."
I'd be so happy if a psych would spend 15 minutes talking to me about ISO8601 timestamps or IPv6.
PRO-TIP: When you learn that a person is a bigoted moron, just stop acknowledging their existence!
I was once told by a therapist that I can't be autistic because I'm married, not quite obsessive enough over my interests, and was teaching college classes at the time.
When I was a teen I was told by my psychiatrist “I would diagnose you with Asperger’s, but I’m not going to because you’ll be able to do any job you want as long as you have a secretary.”
That and also not being diagnosed at all because the psychiatrist gives you the reasons listed in the dialogue at the bottom. Yeah…
My mom says I cannot be autistic because I’m “ in shape and pretty “ and also I “ liked being hugged as a kid “ .. yeah so why do I have fucking meltdowns when I try to eat in public and all the noise makes me nauseous and nervous? Just one tiny example that she witnesses and asks me “ what’s wrong with you ? “
I'll argue the flip side. I have a son who is 13 and firmly L2/L3. This is where a lot of autistic people sit and specifically online they are grossly under-represented because they don't have the capacity to socialize even from a computer or phone.
My older son is what used to be Asperger's which I would define as your L1.
I continue to hate the fact that they flattened their taxonomy with DSM V. Asperger's != Autism.
So I get and chuckle at the memes but when people think of autism they are thinking of my autistic son not the Asperger's one.
The representation of autistic people in the media, and in social media like this, is not an accurate representation of autistic people
Yah I hate that people call SUVs, "cars". They're completely different.
And it's terrible that people started calling lecterns, "podiums". They're entirely independent of one another.
And it sucks that people call 1/2 baths, "bathrooms" even though nobody's doing any kind of bathing in those things.
The problem I have is that there is a loss of specificity, not that Asperger's and autism are fundamentally different. Autism used to be defined as the cluster of autism-like symptoms paired with a developmental problem with language. Asperger's was very similar, except that the impairment was with social interaction and non-verbal communication rather than linguistic aspects. Nowadays, while there is a lot of overlap, the difference is more like car vs truck rather than car vs SUV. You can classify a truck as a type of car, but you can't classify a car as a type of truck.
Here we have the diagnostic definition at odds with the desire to socialize the specific condition to the layman and advance acceptance.
I agree the new descriptors sometimes runs counter to that effort. So I tend to describe my L1ASD condition as "the Asperger's style of autism" to the uninitiated.
Unfortunately, this can also draw negativity from the cohort of autistic folks that want to see the term Asperger's deleted because they misunderstand who Hans Asperger was and what he actually was about. The popular story about that has been distilled to a soundbyte of "He WaS a NaZi" spongebob font and all.
It's frustrating and anecdotally I'm 10+ years in my journey parenting autistic children and the consensus with the professionals is that the new descriptors are a continued challenge. Will it change with time? Who knows? All I can do is advocate for those who get left out and/or left on the wrong side of these memes because like my younger son they cannot advocate for themselves.
It will change when all the regular folks learn to use their sense of reason to question their own emotionally-driven judgements.
I don't see that being a skill that is encouraged in many parts of our society, because it would make the people more capable of thinking critically and less susceptible to the political/ideological manipulations that prey on their anger and fear.
It is my firm belief the only way things will change is if neurotypical people are forced to have relationships with autistic peers. Right now we do not do this. Autistic programs by and large are professionals helping autistic kids while working with other autistic kids.
There needs to be programs in schools that force children to become peer buddy groups with autistic kids.
Maybe.. but I feel like forcing people to do things doesn't often yield the best results. I do agree that consistent and positive interaction would be meaningful.
Culturally, we need people to set the examples and to lead correctly. And that's adults, whether its teachers or parents, including and accepting the autistic kid and encouraging the neurotypical kids to be the same.
If that's in line with what you're saying, then we're on the same page.
If that's in line with what you're saying, then we're on the same page.
Yes.
If it makes sense it's the whole, "I have a child with autism not an autistic child."
Both my kids are now diagnosed with autism, both my wife and I had an aha moment about our own lives and personalities. We’re a fully neuro divergent family. My mom says I can’t be because I love to learn things and read…
Hi, lifelong major depression endurer here. You can absolutely laugh when you're depressed. In fact if you laugh just the right way, it can lead to increased medication and more frequent therapy sessions, maybe even a visit to a nice medical facility. Never had that last one myself, but I know someone who was legally disallowed from purchasing a firearm for years (IL).
Same. My therapist told me "you don't look depressed".
In my day, I was (self diagnosed as) Asperger's (obsesses on somewhat socially acceptable things like math and physics, gets good grades, very awkward), and seeing as there was zero effective treatment available, a formal diagnosis was counter productive. I did like speed a lot in my twenties though. I eventually worked out good coping mechanisms and aside from an absurdly low social battery, I do well in my way.
Which I bring up to raise the point that perhaps this 'spectrum' thing is pretty counter productive for the profoundly disabled on the far end. Seems like people on my end (functional but could use help) are sucking the oxygen out of room to their detriment now that there are useful treatments for us. Is there some sort push towards separating the two again ?
Genuinely want to know, I feel some guilt for downgrading their suffering (even though I think, intellectually, it's a way of cheaping out on their care that I have no control over).
Given how they are a cluster of conditions where most people have some subset of noticable conditions, I'm not sure there is a clear way to differentiate them.
Also, the last person I saw who brought up this argument about how functional they are and how it was unfair to people who are less functional was in the same comment also simultaneously talking about how they're depressed or suicidal from extreme loneliness and strongly wished to be cured of their autism. That hardly seemed functional to me if you are struggling so much with life even if you can pretend to be functional enough to hold some jobs. I think many people have a strong tendency to downplay their own suffering. You can see the same behavior from people who've been victims of abuse who frequently will deny they've ever been abused, but if you ask them to describe what happened, they'll describe abuse and then just try to say it really wasn't that bad or that such is normal.
Also, we already have terminology to refer to lots of those traits commonly associated with autism. Nonverbal, hypersensitive, speech-processing disorder, and more. If there's a reason to communicate those things, you can do so with or without mentioning autism.
Also, the last person I saw who brought up this argument about how functional they are and how it was unfair to people who are less functional was in the same comment also simultaneously talking about how they’re depressed or suicidal from extreme loneliness and strongly wished to be cured of their autism.
Yeah, not me. Quite happy with who I am, wouldn't change it. I get a pretty useful, different, point of view which I wouldn't give up, but I've had time to acclimate.
I also doubt how useful language tricks like 'terminology to refer to lots of those traits commonly associated with autism. Nonverbal, hypersensitive, speech-processing disorder, and more' are to deal with those problems.
Still, I agree it's a cluster and a hard problem to differentiate (except for profound things like nonverbal).
If helping someone with mild symptoms took away from those with more severe symptoms, I'd see a point. But I haven't come across any evidence of that.
It's important to remember that there is more going on than what we see. I can get by well enough for most daily living tasks, but when I'm at my limit I'm treated like I should be able to handle it like a neurotypical. I hate having to explain to my managers at work what it's like to shut down from overstimulation. I hate having to be seen as "unreceptive" to changes just because it takes time and understanding for me to adjust to new routines.
I'm trying my best, but to separate "mild" autism from "severe" autism diminishes the struggles that many of us go through, especially for those of us who didn't receive diagnosis or treatment as children. I've had to learn how to navigate this bizarre world on my own, but just because I can "pass" sometimes doesn't mean I've mastered it.
I see this sentiment even in my own coworkers, which is sad because we all work with autistic children. I have a learner who's exceptionally bright. He asks questions that could only be properly answered by a college professor. Sometimes when discussing him, my coworkers will ask, "Why is he even here?" I have to explain that just because someone's intelligent in some ways, that doesn't mean they're caught up with social and emotional intelligence. The kid has difficulty regulating himself, while he's made massive progress in social skills while at our school - I've seen him grow from a kid who only wants to play alone and who would get annoyed when others tried to play with him, to one that happily joins in on games with others and even tolerates when another kid has a drastically different play style.
He'll be getting ready to graduate and go off to public school soon, which will be bittersweet for me. I was a lot like him as a kid, and I can already imagine some of the difficulties he'll face - many of which will come from adults who see his intelligence and assume he can do more than he's capable of. So when I work with him, I make it a point to tell him that not everyone will understand what he's going through, while teaching him functional communication to get his needs met regardless. I'm sure this little bird will fly high some day, we don't have to teach him how to soar. But before he can get there, he has to learn how to land himself safely - that's where I (and the rest of his teachers) come in.
Nice perspective, that actually helps me with my moral conundrum FWIW, thanks. Still wonder if we're not short changing the truly profoundly affected, but it's great to see the progress you and the structures around you have made in helping those like me (us?).
It brings to mind something I wish I had access to earlier, the TV show 'Lie To Me' which presents the possibility of using learning (perhaps targeted hyper fixation) to compensate for lack of instinctive social understanding. The show itself mostly dealt in extremes for dramatic effect, but it lead me to useful materials and techniques that have been helpful, if somewhat exhausting, in life. Don't know if it's likely to be a win in general, but it might be useful for certain cases (like me).
I believe that there should be way more than 2 conditions which are currently just called autism. You seem to have one, my son is non-verbal and physically unable to complete basic tasks like eating a bowl of cereal, others feel uncomfortable if someone touches their face, others need to constantly fidgit, some require music to feel comfortable, some are obsessed over a certain topic like boats or trains or Lego or whatever. All are currently "autism" but don't seem to be related. I wish they got rid of the "spectrum"and studied the separate types as separate conditions.
My neice is non-verbal. I'm on "the spectrum". It's not the same. Plenty of overlaps, but it's not the same. I appreciate awareness for the topic at all, but also hope it doesn't detract from treating the most serious symptoms
Exactly. They are different and should not be "autism". Technically my kid is not non-verbal but limited to one or two words, like if he wants to watch blue's clues he'll just say blue or if he's hungry he will just say yum yum.
I'm not a doctor but you and your niece have different conditions and likely have different causes and potentially different treatments. We should eliminate the word autism and separate it into like 5 or 10 different conditions and study them separately.
My sympathy and respect for your situation, and your son's.
Right?, it's not at all the same thing. Non-verbal and academically good with bad socialization are totally different in needs. There is a line through both conditions, and it could be useful in helping both, but making it seem like it's just a smeared out spectrum from bad to good does no-one any favors.
Agreed. I feel like if we separate them doctors and scientists could study causes and care more effectively. What you need is totally different from my son, why are they combined? Yes the common cold, the flu and TB all result in coughing but don't have the same treatment. They seem more related then "autism".
The difficulty of diagnosing autism shows this. If you get strep throat, take a test and it's either positive or negative. No one can say "yeah, it says I don't have strep throat but..."
I think this misunderstands illnesses in general and is low-key dismissive of mental health issues.
One of your sons care is different for the same reason ones might be different if they both had flu but were suffering different severities of it. One might just need some bed rest, while the other could end up in hospital on a ventilator if their case is more severe. That ventilator won't particularly help the one that needs bed rest, but is necessary for the other.
The difficulty in diagnosing is pretty inherent to mental health in general - where's the cut off for depression, when one person is just numb to the world and another is constantly breaking down and trying to kill themselves? What about anxiety, where one person could freeze up a bit in social situations while another starts panicking as soon as they step outside? They're still interfering with your life, just to different degrees.
I'm not dismissing mental health care. Mental health is very important and as a society we don't put enough into treating/helping/improving it.
Like your depression example, should they be in the same bucket? Now as a layman, my understanding is they are due to low levels of serotonin being absorbed before re-uptake. So they have a common cause and treating that cause will probably help both parties. If there is a different cause like insufficient serotonin creation that should be treated differently.
If we took a trial of a new treatment it may only help those with low serotonin creation but with both groups in the bucket it may be deemed ineffective since the group it helps in such a low percentage of "depression".
All of these conditions affect your life, all should be cared for, studied,treated etc. Yes they are serious.
Well thanks Karen, you're almost certainly more knowledgeable than three different medical professionals.
This also happens when you say that you're autistic to other autistic people, but more wokely
There are no healthy people. Just undiagnosed
In all seriousness. To me, theres one crucial difference between neurodivergence and autism. Autistic people (and I'm talking here about extreme autism) are unable to learn behavioral patterns of other humans around them. This is an objective disability that prevents them from functioning in the society.
If you're able to learn from behaviors of other people, reason about them and act accordingly, then there's no disability to speak of.
Shoutout to my ex who said that I "couldn't be autistic" because I'm "able to function". Fuck that guy
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