It became the only reliable source of information I had. People posted links with a minimal amount of commentary, picking and choosing the best content from other social media networks. They’re not doing it to “build a brand” because that’s not a thing in the Fediverse. It’s too disjointed to be a place to build a newsletter subscription base.

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[–] 296 points 6 months ago (62 children)

People complain about Lemmy having limited content and engagement. Not in this article so much. I’m sure there were fewer posts in the past too. But what I found is that there are real people on here and you don’t have to wade through bots and shills which makes this community feel much more whole to me.

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  • [+] 123 points 6 months ago* (18 children)
  • [–] 41 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    True, Lemmy feels this way almost exclusively because it's small and hasn't been noticed by mainstream media enough. The second that changes this place will become what reddit was pre-ipo.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago

    I think even if shills, bots and influencers gain traction in the fediverse, it's still better than reddit or Instagram because of federation. There won't be one corporation algorithmically feeding you ads. You can curate your experience more than you can on another platform.

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    While Lemmy lacks those, PieFed already has both advanced automated mod tools plus other features that dramatically increases the democratization of moderation itself.

    e.g. if someone wants to see less Trump and Musk content, keyword filters allow someone to personally set that up, without having to rely upon a moderator to make that decision for the entire community.

    Another example along those lines is the automated collapsing or even hiding of content that falls below a certain score threshold - personally I have that turned off, but if someone wants that then again, they don't have to rely solely upon the efforts of a moderation team, and can rely instead upon the community engagement. Again: if they want.

    Still another example is showing icons next to usernames - e.g. one shows new users that are <2 weeks old, another shows someone who receives ~10x more downvotes than upvotes, and so on. These are not "filters", just helpful indicators so that you know more about someone's reputation prior to responding. Most conservatives for example have warning labels next to their usernames, in these more leftist spaces.

    Also - and I cannot emphasize enough how crucial this is - PieFed moderator reports actually federate. This has been a source of huge pain in Lemmy, and tbf I think a future Lemmy release is planned that will do that... but meanwhile as with so exceedingly very many other features, PieFed has had them for months.

    PieFed thereby helps avoid some of the major issues that cause community fragmentation. Which ironically PieFed also helps solves that issue too, by collapsing comments (old example of this phenomena), and with the Categories of Communities suite of features, including the user-customizeable and shareable Feeds.

    Also PieFed is easier to install, requires less maintenance, uses fewer resources (even sending 25-fold less data to end-users), and so on. So yeah, I don't think Lemmy is capable of scaling up, despite its reliance upon its sourcecode being in the hyper stable Rust programming language, because of all the other issues with it (database issues requiring constant restarts, and especially lack of moderation capabilities), so I am putting all of my hopes into PieFed. Sorry if this reads like an advertisement - I feel like PieFed is to Lemmy what Lemmy is to Reddit, except that analogy does not begin to come close since PieFed has added features that even Reddit never bothered to, plus some others that it continually tried to take away from people by not retaining it in new-reddit despite how it was present in old.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Also PieFed is easier to install, requires less maintenance, uses fewer resources (even sending 25-fold less data to end-users), and so on. So yeah, I don’t think Lemmy is capable of scaling up, despite its reliance upon its sourcecode being in the hyper stable Rust programming language, because of all the other issues with it (database issues requiring constant restarts, and especially lack of moderation capabilities), so I am putting all of my hopes into PieFed.

    This is the first time I'm hearing most of this, except the part about Piefed having more moderation tools. Do you have any links to additional information?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Absolutely! Start here: https://join.piefed.social/features/.

    The linked blog is also really interesting to me, e.g. this post: https://join.piefed.social/2024/02/09/comparing-network-utilization-of-lemmy-kbin-and-piefed/, which shows how 5x less data is sent for 5x more posts e.g. 25x greater data efficiency between server instance and client.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Thanks, that was interesting about the network utilization. For a while now I've been trying to evaluate the resource efficiency of Lemmy vs. PieFed for my own curiosity. Rust has been shown to be much more resource efficient on the server, using a lot less RAM and CPU from what I recall reading in the past, but I hadn't thought about the differences in network utilization that could counteract that efficiency, and I was also not aware that Lemmy was so reliant on Javascript. Javascript is still supposed to be quite more resource efficient than Python, but much less so than Rust since it's still an interpreted language (an extremely optimized one, but still has inherent limits compared to compiled languages). I would still like to know about PieFed requiring less maintenance and the Lemmy database issues requiring constant restarts, if you have any links to information about that. Thanks.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    One very popular account that you probably have already heard is here: https://jeena.net/lemmy-switch-to-piefed.

    Another informative discussion relates to the upcoming (in 2026) switch of slrpnk.net from Lemmy to PieFed, see e.g. https://slrpnk.net/comment/18799445. Some highlighted nuggets from that:

    the main bottleneck on performance is the database itself, and at that point the language the frontend is written in doesn’t seem to make much of a practical difference

    the core issue with Lemmy is really that it is very annoying to run and maintain, has huge memory issues (ironically given that it is written in Rust) that the devs ignore since years, and the image integration is a stuff of nightmares. In addition, the upstream devs are often actively hostile to sensible suggestions how to improve things and the proposed solutions by them often make things actively worse (latest case in point: the next version will hardcode lemmy.ml as a source to pre-fetch popular communities). After nearly 5 years of running Lemmy, I am ready to cut my losses and rather give Piefed a try, and so far the devs and community around it has been very welcoming and actually have lots of sensible ideas.

    (Note that the proposed hard-coding issue has been somewhat walked back, as in it will still be hardcoded to some instance but it only remains lemmy.ml by default yet can be changed. Using a single instance as the ultimate source of truth though, it will still be subject to issues of defederation.)

    The Lemmy backend causes the Postgres database to use more and more RAM, to the point that it crashes with out of memory issues randomly and causes other processes to go down with it. I have reported the issue multiple times and I am not the only one with the problem since many years,

    There are also some further links there to older discussions and additional blog posts, such as https://join.piefed.social/2024/02/13/technical-performance-of-each-fediverse-platform/.

    See also notes for developers at https://join.piefed.social/docs/developers/, e.g. it mentions PieFed relying upon the Flask framework, and the code repository at https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi, which reportedly the Docker containerization makes it fairly straightforward to install? (I have no personal experience with that though, or Docker containers at all myself.)

    In my mind, PieFed is running circles around Lemmy and has been for like a year now. Nobody knows how scalable any of these approaches would be to handle like a million of people, but on the other hand the entire Threadiverse has only ~35k active users currently (last I checked) and that is already down from our peak at 55k just after the Rexodus. i.e., scalability is the least of our concerns right now, and can be postponed for another day, in lieu of aspects such as features proferred to users and ease of use to instance admins.

    Then again, FOSS is FOSS, so I wish both Lemmy and PieFed (and Mbin, nodeBB, etc.) the absolute best of success - when one is improved, we all benefit due to the federated nature of content shared via ActivityPub Protocol. I just think that Lemmy has little hope for the future, while PieFed continually impresses me. Nothing is perfect, but on the whole I hear the best things about it, and I have little doubt you'll enjoy having delved deeper into learning about it, based on so many stories shared in e.g. !piefed_meta@piefed.social that have said exactly that.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Great, thank you. I was not familiar with any of those links discussing these issues. I will read them to get more details. Thanks again.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Also, there is no central power that has to make the line go up. I remember reddit like before 2014 and that was much like here in many ways (in an older kind of way, more racism and smut), but they just had to shoehorn in moar users more and more and more, and forbid any troublesome subs (while leaving other troublesome ones ofc.).

    So IMO there is a real difference, we cannot grow too big or we'd just split off into new entities.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    This is how I see it. If fedi proper becomes mainstream then us old heads will just recreate the old fedi and guard who we federate with very closely.

    Most people aren't here for commerce, so I think it makes sense to keep some areas aggressively social only.

    Malls versus parks or libraries kind of thing.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    I think the community is a good size right now. Popular enough that we guarantee getting any content of relevance I care about, but not popular enough to have all the problems you mentioned. I hope the community stays this size and off the radar indefinitely.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    There is no effective way to ban a person. As long as that remains true, moderation tools don't really matter.

    Israel alone is putting $760 million into propaganda. Lemmy may not be big, but it's worth 0.2% of that budget.

    And that's just Israel.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    israel is pretty new on the scene, only after '23 they significantly increased thier propaganda funding, russia still beats them with billions per year on propaganda, of course its not limited to just social media.

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago*

    I actually like the slower pace. There's no constant stream of content but I find that helps me to moderate my usage. It also helps me take a more active role because I don't just see what I'm subscribed to. I'll hop over to the top posts over the last 6 hours and find something that's really hot elsewhere, or I'll hop on to scaled and find something obscure. It's slower and cranky but it embodies a lot of the old elements of scrolling that I miss.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    People complain about Lemmy having limited content and engagement.

    I do. And that's also why if you consciously choose Lemmy as your first line of internet discussion, I encourage you to help build a critical mass to sustain your particular niche or topic.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    People complain about Lemmy having limited content and engagement.

    Maybe I would have thought this at one point? I remember when you could get to the bottom of the All feed in one session.

    Lemmy is probably the fastest paced social I go on now. I've got my people I follow on masto and a handful of forums. So coming to lemmy from those feels downright metropolitan.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    Yeah, there's definitely still some bullshit and editorialized clickbaity headlines to sift through, but it's not nearly as much and overall the content here feels much more human.

    There's just not much incentive to generate engagement for the sake of it (unless you're funhole), and far fewer bots and bad-faith trolls in general. Not to say there's none though.

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago (35 children)

    unless you enter .ml environment...

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Or hexbear, Lemmygrad.ml, hilariouschaos, and [edit: false stuff removed] maga.place.

    Lemmy definitely has its dark corners.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    lemmytoday isnt conservative, i havnt even noticed one, most of the actual conservatives have largely been defederate long time ago. also they wouldnt survive on a small platform anyways, because of how little interactions they get.

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  • [+] -16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (31 children)

    I really do not understand all the .ml hate. If you have it so much why are you using their technology (Lemmy)? So much bullshit being reposted as fact. Basically echo chamber brigading. I left Reddit to escape this shit…

    Edit: although judging by your post history you lack conviction and joke about everything, so maybe I missed the mark

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (26 children)

    That’s why I’m advocating for people to switch to piefed and stop donating to the lemmy project which funds .ml.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    Unfortunately the "attitude" system makes Piefed unusable.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    PieFed keeps track of how many upvotes and downvotes you give, displays that on your profile and if you downvote too much it takes away your downvote button. That happened to me after a weekend of use. This is Lemmy. There's a lot here that needs downvoting.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Are you downvoting to disagree or are you downvoting because it’s not contributing to the conversation?

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    This question shows the inherent flaw with putting any value beyond the function of voting, which is just list ranking.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    As soon as it becomes infeasible to read every comment, downvoting to disagree creates echo chambers and encourages groupthink.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    I find the same, though I, and I hope others, use it as an "I agree/this adds to the conversation" button and downvotes exclusively as a "this doesnt add to the conversation or is misinformation" button. I also appreciate seeing the down votes rather than an aggregated score.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    The full explanation is the same thing. Your context adds nothing.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    That’s why

    Which is? I’m still missing something here.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    I really do not understand all the .ml hate. If you have it so much why are you using their technology (Lemmy)?

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  • [+] -6 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    Piefed is a derivative of Lemmy. So you’re not getting away from it.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    And Lemmy is a derivative of Reddit so by your logic you haven’t escaped from it.

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  • [–] -4 points 6 months ago* (8 children)

    Lemmy isn’t compatible with Reddit. Piefed is literally implementing Lemmy’s data structures to specifically be compatible with Lemmy.

    So since your stated goal is counter to reality, I have to wonder what your real intent is. I only see this drama as weakening Lemmy and Piefed by extension, not strengthening anything.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    piefed is not a derivative. It's not a fork. It's a completely different project, in a very different programming language even.

    neither does it implement specifically lemmy's data structures. its not compatible with lemmy specifically. piefed implements activitypub, and is compatible with activitypub servers. activitypub is not lemmy.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    PieFed is absolutely a "derivative" in terms of its DNA. It’s basically built as a love letter to Lemmy’s specific flavor of ActivityPub.

    If you look at the raw JSON, PieFed isn’t just "using ActivityPub", it’s specifically implementing the "Lemmy-isms" that make the Threadiverse work. It uses the same Group actor logic, the same Dislike activity extensions for downvoting, and even mirrors Lemmy’s API routes so you can use apps like Jerboa.

    In a way, it’s like how a 3rd-party controller is a "derivative" of a PlayStation controller. The internals are completely different, but it’s shaped exactly that way so it can plug into the same console and work perfectly. PieFed chose to speak "Lemmy-ish" instead of just "ActivityPub-ish" to ensure it wasn't an island.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    I don't think this is a problem. these data structures have become semi-standard,and they are working fibe, aren't they? should they just change it for change's sake, so that all clients and servers need to implement compatibility code? the problem with lemmy developers is not these standards they have created

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Right.

    Any disagreement must be state sponsored shill bots.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I’m just happy to not support a transphobe and a massive hypocrite build their echo chamber that censors words they consider ‘bad.’

    If they spend as much time developing the software as they spend policing thought it might be worth something.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    From one socialist (me) to another (you, presumably), the lemmy.ml hate comes from:

    • Conservatives who dislike socialism
    • Liberals who dislike socialism
    • Socialists who think Stalin and Mao were anti-democratic fuckheads, and don't enjoy being around "socialists" who like them.

    I like Lemmy, but can at the same time dislike people who like things I consider to be authoritarian, even if those people created the platform in the first place.

    Viewing lemmy.ml content on 'All-Top' is a rather happy medium for me, still get to see some of the best memes

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    I’m definitely not a socialist. .ml is where I landed when I joined due to not knowing any better and joining the largest (at the time) instance, and honestly the outside hate is keeping me there.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago

    Lemmy as far as I can tell is mostly dup posts and blind links, especially links to youtube. The absence of Spez is of course priceless, but otherwise Lemmy is duller than plenty of single-issue blogs or forums, or even the still-decaying corpse of Usenet. That article is about Mastodon, which has a different crowd than Lemmy does. I'm not big on the "follower" model though, so I'm not there very much.

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    [–] 85 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    I really would like to somehow convince more people to adopt the idea that, like, Facebook and friends are run by bad people and you can choose not to use their products. Just stop. Find another way. Be uncomfortable for a little while.

    But people aren't up to the challenge.

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  • [–] 32 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    People are fucking addicted to instagram and I'm the annoying "get rid of that shit" preacher to everyone I can. My gf has reduced her usage, but still checks it from time to time.

    I always ask "Do you really need to use it?" - and almost always, their answer is "not really, but it's the only place I can find X". Some of my gf's friends use it to find new places to go. Some of my boardgaming friends still use it, mostly to "know what events are coming up" or what new games are being released.

    Instagram is essentially this age's yellow pages of a telephone list, small businesses are super dependent on it and they're forced to post fucking stories everyday or get erased by the algorithm

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago

    It's one of those self fueling problems. Businesses post on Instagram because people go there, and people go there in part because that's where they found out about businesses doing stuff.

    Better options are possible, but the big money is backing this hell. Less money to be made from RSS feeds , web rings, and email newsletters.

    I don't use any social media other than this. I find out about bands I like playing from their email lists or bandsintown. I'm on a couple "things happening in the city" email newsletters. It doesn't demand my attention.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    Honestly people are more likely to just quit those websites rather than join new places. I support that though. And I am seeing a lot of people around me are going away from these platforms recently.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I wouldn't say it's "not up to the challenge" insomuch that like when you want to convince someone to not use Chrome, you're running into the problem that you have to create a framework under which the amount of problem Chrome can be can actually be measured/registered.

    People always assume "Yeah but the average user doesn't care", but never truly read that line and realize what it implies.

    It's not that my mum opens Chrome, sees that it's 74/100 on the problematic-software-you-shouldn't-use-scale, and then decided to use it anyways.
    She opens it. That's it. It ends there.

    There is no "This is a 74/100 problem".
    There is no problematic-software-you-shouldn't-use-scale.
    There is no scale.
    There isn't even the conceptual idea for it, and hence no reason or impetus to ever internally have such a scale.

    And now comes an important question: Why? Or rather, why not?

    And the answer is both easier and also impossibly harder than most of us trying to convince others would want to accept: Because it doesn't matter.
    To my mum, she couldn't give a flying fuck what others think about Chrome, she wants to open a web page. She has actual problems in her actual life, she doesn't care a rat's arse what the tiny computer she looks up the weather and contacts her kids on does to allow her to do that internally. She's worried about her health, about her colon surgery healing or about her mum (my grandma is 93) having fallen down.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Well, yes, "why don't you care about things?" is a timeless problem. People don't like to see beyond the immediate. Probably because in pre-history, the creatures that focused on right now did better than the ones who went "but if we keep cutting down the trees, eventually it's going to cause problems."

    Well, now we have many problems, and our brains have not advanced.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (4 children)

    I also wish they would, but ive realized a lot of people have no self control or discipline. I guess I do because of some challanges during my life. But for most people, its difficult to even stop eating unhealthy food, and thats not even difficult. :)

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    But for most people, its difficult to even stop eating unhealthy food, and thats not even difficult.

    It is if you are poor. Healthy food costs more than junk, in the short-term.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    That's not even difficult? Get out more, man.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago*

    I dont think its difficult. Nobody has a gun to my head forcing me to do it.

    Difficult things in life are things like being permanently sick, disabled, being poor, being ugly, being bullied, being with a toxic partner, having a toxic boss etc.

    But not eating unhealthy food, thats not difficult. Unless you are poor, like someone said above. Then its difficult because you cant choose something else.

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  • [–] 64 points 6 months ago

    See I had forgotten the one golden rule of capitalism. To thrive in capitalism one must be amoral. Now you can be wildly sickeningly successful with morals but you cannot reach that absolute zenith of shareholder value. Either you accept a lower share price and don’t commit atrocities or you become evil. There is no third option.

    Spot on.

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  • [–] 32 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    The Australian Subreddits got overrun by extremist right wing people who tend to be 20x louder than anyone else, and exaggerate everything.

    One even reported me for being racist (successfully) despite the fact that the entire time I was fighting back against the racism

    Even worse, you now need to log in to even see it at all in a mobile browser. So f that

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I was perma banned for calling someone "A fucking piece of human garbage" as they openly and brazenly advocated for the death of trans people.

    I got banned, the person calling for Trans people to be killed did not.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    That's unfortunately pretty standard.

    Whereas, on Facebook, nobody gets banned. I've literally reported people inciting violence towards others. However, it seems permitted by community standards these days

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah and if you're IP banned your fucked

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    If you're not shadow banned

    I suspect they shadow banned me first for a few days, and probably pissed off a few racists who kept watching my account.

    I had an account for 10+ years before deleting it and creating a new one. My old account never even got banned from a subreddit once in all that time. And I had other accounts Before that, so I suspect I was targeted on the last account I bothered with

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    FYI, I'm doing it to build a brand.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago

    I’m having a blast here.

    Not only because it gives you the content that you choose. And there’s no shorts, no ads, …no superfluous bs (god I hate fb, I fucking loathe it).

    But also, everything is within reach. The options are within the options. Done.

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  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    People talk a lot about the protocols that power Bluesky vs. ActivityPub, because we're nerds and we believe deep in our hearts that the superior protocol will win. This is adorable. It flies in the face of literally all of human history, where the more convenient thing always wins regardless of technical merit. VHS beat Betamax. USB-C took twenty years.

    Hopefully, unlike betamax and laserdisc, the fediverse will trudge on despite the megacorporate protocols

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  • [–] 42 points 6 months ago

    This was a great read to start my day, thank you!

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago

    I learnt something new today, cheers

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