Microsoft is working on a new project labeled Windows 'K2', intent on removing bloatware, reducing AI, and optimizing Windows 11 for gaming, with three focuses of 'performance, craft, and reliability'.

the issue is not about performance, is about enshitification. I mean, do we need TPM? do we need Microslop account to login our pc/laptop? do they really need to shove Copilot into Windows?

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[–] 158 points 6 months ago (7 children)

This is such a huge W for linux. It legitimizes linux as a real competitor in so many eyes.

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  • [–] 67 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    That's because it is a legitimate competitor. It's the freedom OS, and only way for the world to escape Americas big tech fascism.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago

    Yeah I know I've been using it for gaming for years. But when I say linux is good people might brush it off because oh you would say that as a linux user. But im highlighting that Microsoft saying this legitimizes Linux in a completely different way. It legitimizes it for all the people that see Windows as the best OS the people outside the linux bubble.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 71 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Microsoft is reportedly looking at Valve's SteamOS as the benchmark for gaming

    Yeah, that's Linux

    Valve's SteamOS continues to show significant advantages over Windows 11 for gamers, with better memory utilization and improved in-game performance, but Microsoft has a plan to combat that.

    Let that sink in for a second. Linux with a not-an-emulation layer API runs Microsoft Windows games faster than Microsoft Windows, and so now Microsoft is scrambling to get windows at least as efficient again as Linux in running Windows products.

    Anyone ever trusting Microsoft again is a dumbass fool

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    We really need more alternative private non-stock unionized companies in USA made to go against Big Tech

    That's really what it comes down to. Better alternatives across the board

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    Yes. If the community can win this hard ad-hoc, imagine the glory of buying from a dedicated employee owned vendor that provides a full stack solution with a support contract.

    There's nothing (legal) the enshitifiers could counter with.

    And even when they go full illegal (and they always do), there's more of us common folks who want a good product and a fair wage, than there are of them (exploiters).

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  • [–] 69 points 6 months ago

    Reducing ai but not removing it ain’t it

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  • [–] 63 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Microsoft adds the bloat themselves, and ever increasing telemetry reporting back, promises to update W10 for the lifetime of the device, reneges on it with W11 quoting security as its rationale but leaving 400 million users without security updates. Does all this at a time Linux is becoming very friendly and android phones have a desktop mode so they can be plugged into a keyboard and monitor and bypass the need for Windows. Microsoft has a bit of a think about the market value of its idiot direction and decides to remove a lot of the crap slowing the OS and give people back a little privacy, touts it as a new way of thinking about personal computing.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    I'd say i'm cautiously optimistic but honestly i'm just not optimistic. They want to 'remove bloat, reel back AI, etc' and I'm just going to ask "how?"

    how can they possibly improve their OS when the past year updates to 11 have been the worst in the companies history. the past few months alone have been an absolute cluster fuck and that's saying A LOT considering this the same company that gave us ME and Vista.

    Before rebuilding the OS they need to take a seriously look internally and rebuild teams, management, etc because its' clear as day the company that they have currently cannot produce the potential OS they seem to want to produce.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    You mention Windows Me and Vista as low points but Windows 8 was such a donkey that your memory must have blocked it so you could go on with your life. And you just know this wonderful new streamlined and privacy conscious version is going to look suspiciously like Windows 7 which most users wanted to stick with anyway.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    You mention Windows Me and Vista as low points but Windows 8 was such a donkey that your memory must have blocked it so you could go on with your life.

    Good lord you're right. I had completely forgotten about 8. I know I had it, I must have had it but I don't actually remember using it. It's like a gap there between 7 and 10 that is just gone from my head.

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  • [–] 40 points 6 months ago

    There you are, racking up multi kills, bonus points are pouring in. The map is yours and you are about to push the score back in favour of your team…

    When all of a sudden

    “DO YOU WANT TO TURN ON STICKY KEYS? PWEASE LOGIN TO ONEDRIVE TO ACTIVATE YOUR 365 COPILOT ACCOUNT SUBSCRIPTION. ACTIVATING BITLOCKER LOCKDOWN.”

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  • [–] 30 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    Yeah, MS lost a lot of trust with stupid things and getting that back - good luck with that. I'm gone I switched to Linux since a year (been on Windows since 3.0) or so ago and won't ever go back even though I still need to run Visual Studio in a virtual guest.

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  • [–] 29 points 6 months ago

    Microsoft right now

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago

    Get rid of telemetry, ads, AI, and the MS account requirement for a start.

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  • [–] 45 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Knowing Microsoft, the new project is an update to DirectX which has features impossible for Proton to translate without violating anti-circumvention laws or an always on DRM baked into core features.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Section 1201(f) of the DMCA allows for interoperability; I’m sure Valve’s lawyers will figure it out

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    They could also do the Nintendo thing and plaster their trademarked name all over critical functions or interfaces and then sue anyone who tries to re-write their software, since you still have to handle calls to the MicrosoftTMOfficialDirectX13Windows_draw() function. Using a registered trademark without permission violates a different set of laws.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    There’s nothing MS can do to make me trust them again. They can “love bomb” all they want, but a toxic ex is a toxic ex.

    Publicly traded corporations will always exploit anything and anyone they can get away with to maximize their profits. They will only improve just enough to trap you again, then the exploitation begins again.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    a toxic ex is a toxic ex

    This, for sure, but if she wants to dance I'll dance with her. 🤪

    For serious, tho: people change. I don't expect mega corporations to ever change for the better. They'll do whatever they need to get money and you can guarantee they'll fuck you (the bad kind) as soon as you're invested.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    For serious, tho: people change. I don’t expect mega corporations to ever change for the better.

    at the very best, they can, on occasion, do something thats accidentally good.

    But that never really meaningfully alters the trajectory of evil.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Of course not.

    Install Linux, Problem Solved.

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    I like how back in the day Gabe proposed to MS to invest into gaming on PC, got ignored, left company to chase this venture of his own. Which leads us to today as Gabe is about to drop a gaming-OS nuke on the market that will finally shaken (or hopefully shatter to pieces) MS's gaming OS monopoly.

    Love to see MS giving out promises to users way before Steam Machine drops. They are clearly scared shitless.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    They are clearly scared shitless.

    Consumers aren't MS's market anymore. It would hurt if Windows lost market share but it wouldn't be devastating.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    What is their market then? Corporate OS? EU is already planning to move off the Windows to Linux in corporate spaces. Things have been moving in this direction lately.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Their primary source of income is services like M365 and Azure. Its been like that for a while now. That's the main reason for the Win11 fuckup - they just don't care about consumers anymore.

    There are moves to get public bodies in some EU countries off of non-sovereign platforms but as a risk it is a long way off. You are right though, its definitely a worry for them.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Yep, there's a reason they turned Office into a web app. Even if companies switch to Linux or macOS, MS can still sell them a subscription to Outlook/Office/etc.

    Company wants to move their servers to Linux as well? Well Azure also provides cloud based Linux servers, MS doesn't care what you run as long as they can make money off it.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Why would anyone get their hopes up about a Microsoft product?

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  • [–] 33 points 6 months ago (15 children)

    I abandoned Windows for Linux rather than update to Windows 11. I will be interested to see what Microsoft does, but at this point I seriously doubt they're going to be able to give me a good enough reason to return to Windows as my primary OS. At this point I only need it for a few applications that don't have a Linux equivalent and don't run on Wine.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Have you tried to Winboat the apps missing ?

    I also switched earlier this year to cachyos. I'm definitely not going back. The simple fact that I need to boot the Windows old partition to update it makes me anxious.

    I feel so much more in control of my operating system it feels really nice.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    Seconding Winboat, works great for the one piece of software I have that is stuck on Windows. At this point I am 100% not going back, I even wiped my Windows disk. That drive is for trying out other distros now.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Winboat looks really interesting. How does it compare to just using WinApps? It seems like it's basically just doing the heavy lifting for setting programs up, yeah?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    It's very similar. I found WinApps to be quite flaky, where WinBoat feels much more solid. However, a nice feature of WinApps is the ability to set the Windows apps as the default file type, and you can open files from the right click > Open With, which you can't do with WinBoat. Not that I've found, anyway.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    Nice, the default file types isn't a deal breaker for me. I'll have to give it a shot! I've been testing debian on my laptop before changing my desktop over. Hadn't found a good solution for a handful of my windows-only programs yet but this seems like it might do the trick.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Yep, I had a look at Winboat. It's effectively a Windows VM anyway (using RDP), so for the sake of the couple of applications I need Windows for (which mostly interact with each other), VirtualBox with a VM is easier for me to manage.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I know it's not possible for everyone, but I just cut ties with any application that wouldn't work on Linux and found alternatives.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    I hate that I need to keep one computer in my household on windows to be able to run my business. I've got 4 programs that I need to connect to my machines or I can't do anything.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think they care as long as your employer is still using Windows. They will get really scared if school systems start adopting Linux.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Eh, TPM is pretty convenient for full-disk encryption tbh

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    They'll either never do it, or do it for a year or so then go back to being pieces of shit.

    Also expect this:

    "hey windows is better"

    yeah? Is it this good?

    "well, no, but..."

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago

    This has been their MO for time immemorial. Make windows shit, right up to the line where people will leave. Only discover where the line actually is after they've stepped over it, then backpedal just enough to stem the exodus and keep people locked in. Repeat.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago

    I don't even care what they do at this point, they've proved themselves to be so incompetent that I have no desire to go back to windows.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Strip out all tracking, anti-competitive anti consumerist features, remove all AI, make it secure and with all of the extra and fancy features opt-in.

    Literally just make a decent, respectable operating system, and you will win. This is how you win at literally anything right now. Just make it durable and private and secure and not extremely expensive and make sure it WORKS, and people will suck your dick from across the planet.

    NOBODY WANTS AI OR MICROTRANSACTIONS OR TO BE PUSHED AROUND OR CONNED, YET THAT'S ALL ANYBODY IS DOING - THE POSITION OF NOT A PIECE OF SHIT IS LITERALLY UP FOR GRABS, YOU JUST NEED TO REACH OUT AND TAKE IT.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Hilarious. Nobody goes through the trouble of achieving multiple monopolies just to give people what they want.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, it's starting to look as though their monopoly is not as secure as they'd assumed, so they might bend a bit, for a while.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    That almost never works. By the time a monopoly starts to crumble the rot is systemic. In this case, every single internal stakeholder at MS is going to sabotage the project as soon as someone tells them their baby cant use 3GB of ram and track every mouse click the user makes while it forces flashing ads onto the screen.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago* (4 children)

    If Microsoft wants to win users back, the only way to do that is by re-releasing Windows 7, and make a legal contract to never add spyware, monetization, adware, AI, service accounts to install/log in to the PC, or anything else to it.

    Windows 7 was the peak of their capabilities. everything before that was building up to 7, everything after was a series of missteps and fuckups.

    But thats never gonna happen.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago*

    I might consider Windows again if they made civil promises in such a way as to expose themselves to existential-level class-action lawsuits, should they go back on their word. Nothing less. Show me you’re ready to die for my trust, otherwise you’re not getting it back — ever.

    Actually… hmm… could we plebs trick the execs and shareholders into giving us powerful corporate positions, where we can do exactly this? That would be a very aggressive and interesting way to make corporations beholden to the public good.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago

    they just gonna shittify it later. who even trusts microslop atp

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    I'll never voluntarily use a Windows PC ever again. Wayyy too late

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    should just use the Linux kernel and pit their version of the desktop on top of that.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    I'm imagining Microsoft taking it all the way and when you buy a Win13 license key, it basically installs a custom theme in KDE Plasma or maybe Cinnamon.

    It might be worse for their profits long term than sticking with their locked down bullshit, but it's kind of funny to think that they would first make billions of dollars of sales on their linux distro.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    You know what's funny? The fact that they could have done this ages ago.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    Recycle Bin is still fucking broken after literal YEARS of me complaining over the fact it doesn't delete files older than 30 days from it. I have files that date months back in time. How about you start at fucking that Microsoft, eh?

    Also fuck off the Recommended section from Start menu. The greatest idiocy of all times, wasting same amount of Start menu real estate whether it's enabled or not. It just wastes same space telling me to tuen it on when it's disabled. What the fuck?

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    It's possible they're kind of admitting defeat with PC enthusiasts and will just settle for the average user and the business user. If they're smart they would make windows home free to use and then charge a fair lump for K2 (and make it extremely good - yknow - things software companies should be doing). That way it's a PR win and they can exploit both business models.

    I strongly expect Microsoft to completely bottle it as usual though. They have some deep corporate rot imo.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    They should have done this 5 years ago.

    I’m never going back.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago

    I nuked my hard drive when they kept shoving more invasive idiocy, more sloppy shite, and a confluence of cloud crap into it.

    They're not going to win me back by integrating their overpriced subscription PS+ knock-off crap further into their joke of an OS.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago

    My hopes are it crashes and burns. I have my hopes up.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    And what will their ambitious plan be?

    Marketing, bribery, coercion, cheating. Those are the only things Microsoft has ever excelled at (pun intended), as software development is something they have NEVER done well

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Their ambitious plan is to protect their desktop monopoly. Microsoft had planned on making gaming a major part of their revenue. However, they messed up so bad that it created the first true threat to the Windows monopoly on decades.

    If the SteamOS tech stack can get consumers off Windows, then it makes it that much easier to threaten the Office monopoly as well.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    Yeah this won't win any Linux users back. At best, it will just slow the rate of users changing from Windows to Linux.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Hahahahahhahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahshshshha!

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    They should try not sucking. Not spying on their users. Maybe let me tell the OS what I want it to do and not have to do whatever it feels like in any given scenario.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    What a fucking joke. Microsoft lost the moment to pedal back a while ago. The damage is done.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    lol comical, the OS is not one feature deployment from being magically fixed. It's an easy decade away at the pace that Microsoft updates. Sorry but it will never happen. Windows computer OS is sunset like it's Phone OS Its not luxury, the rich buy Apple, its not secure and free, that's Linux, its not good for gaming, that's now Linux. Whats left? Business ? Thats eroding fast!

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    It's an easy decade away at the pace that Microsoft updates

    Win 8.1 wants a word.

    the rich buy Apple, its not secure and free, that's Linux

    Thats an over-simplification. Say what you will about MacOS but it is secure. Some Linux distros are very secure, but its not a given. And some rich people run Linux or Windows.

    Whats left? Business ? Thats eroding fast!

    My friend, Business is the reason MS doesn't have to care about consumers or even Windows anymore.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
    • 8.1

    Not even close. Entire Kernel is cancer. 8.1 was bad lipstick on a pig.

    Over-simplification

    Biggest attribute of them both is a simplification.

    Doesn't need to care about windows any more.

    But 8.1! Entire EU says good luck with that

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago*

    The funny thing about AI is that it helps Linux transition in 3 ways:

    1. Copilot shoved everywhere is irritating

    2. Microslop abusing AI pushes one bug after another into windows

    3. AI makes transition to Linux much easier. I tried multiple times and failed, but now, it's like having my own geeky friend who can help me solve any issue, sure... the guy hallucinates sometimes, but if you use your brain, it still can be really helpful.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    They already have a Linux distro, they could make that the default kernel and reach parity tomorrow.

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