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[–] 122 points 6 months ago* (16 children)

I remember a few years ago John Oliver flew to Russia to interview him. He showed him a bunch of vox pop interviews of young people in America asking if they knew who Edward Snowden was and what he did, and almost all of them had no idea.

You could visibly see him die inside after watching it.

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Why would Oliver do that to him

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Meh. I saw someone being interviewed who didn't know who hilter was. Apparently genuine. They even gave hints. When the interviewer told her who he is, she wasn't even shocked or just having a brain fart. She blamed it on her history teacher...

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    I saw someone being interviewed who didn’t know who hilter was. Apparently genuine.

    There was a bit that Conan O'Brian used to do back when he had a late-night show. He'd go out and do Man-On-The-Street interviews in... Times Square, I think? Can't remember if he was LA or NY. But he'd ask some absurdly complex question and get this excellently reasoned and well-thought out answer from randos. And then he'd ask what they did for a living. It was inevitably some NASA engineer or finance professional or other well-educated individual. And they were all just... in the crowd. Because in a city as big as that, of course you're going to get this extremely mixed bag.

    On the flip side, there's Sailor Socialism, a podcaster and aspiring actress who baited an interview with an InfoWars reporter, in which she was dressed in a sailor fuku, then went viral talking about how she wanted universal health care and liked Bernie Sanders.

    Interview twenty people and edit the content down to the one or two who make for good entertainment. It's a tried-and-true strategy.

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  • [–] 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

    I have to belive that most of these quizzes where "reporter" walks around asking questions are fake or just show the stupidest answers.

    It has to be so. No way the general populace is that stupid. Please say they are fake.

    Edit; Love how many people take their time to comment how obscure Edward Snowden is now, when i meant these quizzes as general.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago

    He has been largely forgotten. Recently we were talking about data collection with my slightly younger gf (21) when I mentioned him. Turns out she never even heard his name. It's not that she's stupid or does not care about privacy, he just hasn't been mentioned in mainstream media for over a decade, nobody makes reels about him on Instagram/tiktok. Tbh I haven seen him mentioned all that often on lemmy too.

    With the rise of fascist parties worldwide, and especially here in the EU, and talks of AI, privacy seems to have taken a back seat in mainstream discourse.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    No way the general populace is that stupid.

    It isn't an issue of stupidity. Not like "Edward Snowden" is a name you can conjure up from first principles.

    He was headline news back in 2008 and now he's not. Anyone who wasn't following national news nearly twenty years ago likely won't be familiar with him. No more than a Millennial is going to know who Daniel Ellsberg or Robert W. Jackson are.

    The entire Wikileaks project has been more or less obliterated.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    It has to be so. No way the general populace is that stupid.

    Even if it wasn't Murica (they're that stupid), most GenZ or-whatever-the-tag-is was in diapers during the 2010s so yeah, there's a generation who hasn't heard (or cares) about him.

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  • [–] 233 points 6 months ago (13 children)

    I do understand why the state wants to prosecute him, but I also think the public deserved to know what Snowden revealed. It's definitely the kind of thing the pardon power was created for, not for drug lords to bribe their way back into freedom.

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  • [–] 91 points 6 months ago

    I do understand why the state wants to prosecute him

    Because he exposed the state for being a massively illegal and corrupt pile of shit directly perpetrating crimes against not just the American public, but the world at large?

    Like yeah, I understand why cartels kill informants, that doesn't make them justified in doing so.

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  • [–] 39 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    The american public are just overworked sheep… the proof they did not deserve this info, is in that they got it and literally did nothing about it.

    To this day poeple won't stop using Meta and Twitter and there are 29 extra reasons to never touch those platforms again

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    ugh my wife wanted to show me something and it was on x. im like why aren't you using xcancel like we have discussed before. how do I do that. like I said before just add cancel after x. Im sure down the line she is going to show me something from x. sigh.

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  • [+] -13 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    They literally sued the U.S. government and shut down the only program that was collecting Americans' data. https://www.cohenandwolf.com/publication-nsa-phone-metada

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    and this is why the gov doesn't spy on its ciizens anymore and everyone lived happily ever after… my sweet summer child

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  • [–] -3 points 6 months ago* (4 children)

    I'm responding to the claim that Americans did nothing. It might be the case that there is illegal government surveillance going on today, but there is no evidence for that in any leaks, particularly not Snowden's. If there is illegal government surveillance that we learn about later, the takeaway from the Snowden saga is that Americans will take action to shut it down.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    might be the case

    Everybody knows the U.S. is a massive surveillance state still. They literally have renewed FISA every year. And I know, it's supposed to be for foreign spying. But you'd have to be a naive child to think they abide by the law.

    Nevermind all the spying Meta, Google, and windows do. And the government just buys up that data on people as if it were candy in a gas station.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    But you'd have to be a naive child to think they abide by the law.

    If they didn't abide by the law, surely there would be evidence for it in the massive trove of documents that Snowden released.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Are you trying to be intentionally obtuse? You seriously think governments don't lie...you trust them? Then there's nothing to discuss.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago*

    Where did I say my beliefs were from government statements? My comment only mentioned leaks. How do leaks lie? Are you implying Snowden was in on a conspiracy where he only leaked documents that made it look like the government was following the law in order to pull the wool over our eyes? I have to admit, that is a new one to me.

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  • [–] 205 points 6 months ago (29 children)

    Sounds ok except for living in Russia.

    Edward Snowden is a permanent resident and naturalized citizen of Russia, living in Moscow with his wife and two sons. Granted citizenship by President Vladimir Putin in 2022, he remains in exile to avoid prosecution in the US under the Espionage Act. Snowden continues to criticize Russian policy while working in IT and presiding over the Freedom of the Press Foundation

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  • [–] 109 points 6 months ago* (12 children)

    That's what happens when the US waits to cancel your passport until you are stuck in the transit hub of a Russian airport waiting for your next flight out of the country.

    iIRC it took like 12 months until Russia granted Snowden asylum and he could leave the airport hub.

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  • [–] 56 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Like that Tom Hanks movie! I think it's called The Terminal

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  • [–] 76 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Which itself is based on the true story of Mehran Karimi Nasseri who lived in Terminal 1 of Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport, France, from 1988 to 2006.

    It is uncommon, but passports being invalidated during travel does happen.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Wikipedia says this guy was mostly responsible for what happened to him. He allegedly lost his passport, and refused any help from France and Belgium.

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  • [+] -37 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    Wikipedia says this guy was mostly responsible for what happened to him. He allegedly lost his passport, and refused any help from France and Belgium.

    No idea what the fuck you're reading, because the Wikipedia page doesn't seem to say any of that...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

    Belgium isn't even mentioned on the Wikipedia page. And France is mentioned specifically from an interview in 2019 where Snowden said he had requested asylum in 2013, but it was denied under President Hollande. A second request later was received favorably by Justice Minister Nicole Belloubet under President Macron, but no other members of the French government expressed support. That's not at all refusing help from either of them. In fact there are multiple sections in there about his asylum requests to dozens of countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden#Flight_from_the_United_States

    In fact, the Wikipedia page goes pretty in depth about his intended travel out of Hong Kong. The US revoked his passport, it wasn't lost.

    His plans upon leaving Hong Kong never had anything to do with US allies, it very specifically avoided them because of US leverage.

    So where, on Wikipedia, are you reading the exact opposite of what the Wikipedia page says?

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  • [–] 39 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    40 days but that's still quite some

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Ah you are right. I seem to have gotten it mixed up with the initial 1 year refugee status he was granted, before the first 3 year temporary residency permit.

    Either way, the US tried to prevent his leaving Hong Kong but however they submitted it, their request didn't comply with Hong Kong law so there was no legal basis for them to detain him.

    Four countries had offered Snowden permanent asylum: Ecuador, Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Venezuela. No direct flights between Moscow and Venezuela, Bolivia, or Nicaragua existed, however, and the U.S. pressured countries along his route to hand him over. His intended destination was Ecuador, but his passport being revoked while he was in flight from Hong Kong meant he was stuck in Russia.

    He had given all copies of the evidence he had to journalists in Hong Kong reporting on American issues, specifically so when travelling through Russia they would have nothing to leverage.

    Snowden said in July 2013 that he decided to bid for asylum in Russia because he felt there was no safe way to reach Latin America.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago*

    It was revoked before he left China. https://apnews.com/general-news-587786e6e63b4dc2b70c471606d7f584

    That didn't stop China from ignoring his asylum request following his release of documentation of hacked Chinese systems and kicking him out of the country because whether you have a valid passport doesn't matter for geopolitical issues. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china

    Russia was under no obligation to keep Snowden instead of letting him continue to Ecuador. Putin just wanted to use him as a bargaining chip with the U.S., but the U.S. understood that all his documents were already public, so Putin hasn't been able to play that card well yet.

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  • [–] 85 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Living in Russia and criticizing russian policy sounds like how those intrusive thoughts about jumping from windows get into your head...

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  • [–] [S] 42 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Thanks for the update. I didn't know he had children, but I guess life moves on. I still think it is absolutely shameful that Europe wasn't and isn't able to allow Snowden to live in Europe.

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  • [–] 41 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    They're vassals to the empire. He wouldn't be safe there anyway

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 6 months ago

    The Europeans bucking the US would require them to not be vassals. But right now we see Germany trying to placate Trump and while France does a lot of saber rattling, they also aren't going specifically against the US. Only Spain is currently defying the US, but only insofar that they don't allow the US to conduct its war of choice with Iran from spanish soil. They are not opposing the US on anything that isn't as clear cut morally. That's a lot of words for saying yes, unfortunately, Europe, and Germany above all, is too cowardly to defend what is right against the US. The only opposition allowed against the US is bureaucratic opposition. And even that is failing.

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  • [–] 48 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Snowden continues to criticize Russian policy

    I'm totally showing my ignorance here but I'm surprised they let him do that

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  • [–] 73 points 6 months ago

    More valuable openly criticizing the US. He's American so it is "expected" for him to have Western values. The fact that he hides from the US, but lives in RU with issues is a political win for Putin.

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  • [+] -33 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    They actually have parties in Russia.
    Not the Blue/Red MAGA circlejerk

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    And anybody who disparages Putin gets poisoned. It's such a wonderful system, right?

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  • [–] 220 points 6 months ago (12 children)

    It's kind of sad. He sacrificed his freedom to let us know about surveillance of the citizenry and we shrugged a little and accepted all the surveillance they could throw at us.

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  • [–] 49 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    People dont care about their privacy one bit. They want their tiktok brain rot.

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  • [–] 39 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    This is such a "phones bad" comment, but holy shit is it true. If you tell people why you don't have WhatsApp and instagram or whatnot, they just look at you like you are the idiot. Yeah they are evil, steal and sell my data and rot my brain but have you seen this bot posting ai videos of cats?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Yeah people are amazed I dont use those apps. I am amazed they're dumb enough to use them 😅

    Phones have decreased tech literacy a massive amount unfortunately. As they were designed to. Dumb people dont know they're being taken advantage of and corporations and oligarchies love that.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    You realize how ironic this comment is on Lemmy, right?

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago

    Were trying to be better, the internet is about communication. Instead of eating processed soilent slop on major platforms, were sitting here on our gluten-free unpasturized Reddit.

    Have you ever met a health nut not evangilize about their one trick to a healthy colon? Because thats what we are. Digital health-nuts!

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  • [+] -17 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    There was one program that "spied" on Americans in his whole dump, and it was shut down after, so the opposite of what you said happened. (It collected all phone pen register data in the U.S.)

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    lmao. so blissful to think the government is not spying on its own citizens. especially after DOGE went through and collected all the data on american citizens to pipe into Palantir’s surveillance pipeline. what does it feel like to be blissfully ignorant?

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago*

    Melsaskca said we shrugged and accepted the surveillance. The opposite happened. There was a single program that could be interpreted as domestic surveillance that Snowden leaked, and Americans shut it down.

    There is no evidence that DOGE fed data that they had access to into Palantir. Palantir would charge the government to do that.

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  • [–] 83 points 6 months ago

    ♥️

    All whistleblowers need our support

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  • [–] 36 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    I think about him regularly. You know now would be a good time for europe to get him to a better place.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Would be stupid for him to fall for it. Now they give him a better place, next day they give him to the US. Not to mention the whole CIA thing. Russia or even better China are the only countries he can feel relatively safe.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    would be stupid for europe to continue a cozy relationship with the us at this point. The breakup has already started.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    The sad truth is we said exactly the same thing during Trump's first mandate. Granted it was not as bad as this time, but on a general principle: "we know someone like Trump can happen once, so we need to assume it will happen again!". And… as soon as Biden started talking, the EU went back under a cozy mama-wing, easy solution.

    This time might be different… or not. Far right parties are getting stronger in France, Germany, already in power in Italy. They all somewhat allied with Trump and his goons. All the effort made to render the EU sovereign could be discarded just as quickly as they were put in place. Imagine Trump's successort is someone smart enough to understand (or rather not too stupid to not understand…) the benefit of US military supremacy and protection, and you may see some EU govs happily reduce their military spending again: the US promised to have their back!

    At this stage, I am less pessimistic than I am careful: the direction is somewhat correct. We (the people) need to make sure it stays that way.

    But for Snowden's case: I wouldn't come back either. The minute he sets land in Europe, he becomes a bargaining chip in sode negotiations with the US! He could try his chances in Spain, until the next election, then it's uncertainty all over again.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    That is something that worries me. You get these flee the us threads and its like. Fight em here or over there but there is no escaping the planet. While here we have some of the most agregious examples what I see in europe, canada, and australia is like just a few steps back in some cases. And they play off the various locations. fox news came out of australia and there was a media thing that arose from canada to. A lot of this came out of putin though so can't say russia is such a great location.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Von der Leyen's EU?
    I'd stay in Russia.

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  • [+] 1 point 6 months ago* (5 children)
  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    OH right, i forgot, Russia bad, US good... EU good too.
    Thumps chest.
    That's the right answer, right? No grey areas whatsoever, right? Dumbass.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    Doesn't he live in Russia now? Probably not.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    Is he active somewhere and posts so one can follow?

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago

    Suddenly you don't hear about P.Diddy as well

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    I should read his book again.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    I just assumed he wanted to drop some public notoriety so I respected that.. otherwise it would be my callsign and signature name drop

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