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[–] 132 points 7 months ago (22 children)

This is deliberate

Keep people on the edge of ruin, and threaten their healthcare if they dare leave an exploitative employer

Slavery never went away in the US, it merely expanded to include more people and was rebranded as "the free market", or "rugged individualism" or some bullshit

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    It works only while alternative options of employment remain available. Even if they are lower paid. In fact that’s better for them. However, when the employment rate drops, that’s when people get desperate. Desperate people do desperate things.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    People are already dying because they're rationing insulin

    People are dying from perfectly treatable illnesses

    People are dying of malnutrition

    People are dying because of needless violence

    People are dying at the hands of the law enforcement who are supposed to be protecting them

    I think the people are so beaten down that they are utterly cowed, and will do nothing

    America was never brave, it was always a bully, within and without.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Many people are beaten down, physically, financially and metaphorically. However, at a certain point, they fight back.

    When everyone else seems OK but you're not, you dkbt fight back as you'll get arrested. When everyone else is fighting too, you join in! There becomes a tipping point.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I don't have your faith in the American people

    I see that tragic poem of "first they came for" unfolding in real time

    I see a nation who like you say, are beaten down

    But I also see a society which celebrates being selfish, so I don't think you're capable of banding together, even when it's obvious that you should (ie. a few decades ago when Regan was in power)

    It doesn't help that America is a deliberately stupid country

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    I lost faith in people’s goodness around Covid times. I think it’s purely self interest, just like Covid. If they can’t eat and are angry, violence ensues. We’ve seen it throughout history. It’s why bread and circuses exists as a meme. The circus part is meant to satisfy blood lust or redirect anger.

    Unfortunately for trump, the only circus is him and his cronies. Food prices are going to rise around the same time jobs are lost. Usually job losses leads to lower inflation, but in this case, it’s going to be caused by the reduced oil and thus reduced fertiliser. That’s the slow burn that will take a year to play out.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    And this is also why nobody is willing to actually rock the boat in the US. Everyone is too scared to lose what they have, our employers have us by the balls for our paychecks and healthcare, the banks have you by the balls because of debt and if you own a home and lose your job you could lose the home too.

    The US has been turned into a giant company town. As soon as you get paid the money gets taken away.

    Everything has been designed to extract the maximum money from people. From all the middlemen stealing convenience fees to subscription services to your increased medical premiums.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    This is because of all of the individualism that is fostered and perpetuated to keep people vulnerable and afraid. It will eventually reach a tipping point and the working class will fight back.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    But this argument always sounds so weird to me.

    All throughout human history, in every part of the world, there have been revolutions, uprisings, riots, strikes and protests, not despite terrible living conditions, but because of them. Or do you imagine all these people had job security, great quality healthcare and public safety nets? Of course they didn't, because then they wouldn't have had to rise up.

    Only in America are the bad conditions used as an excuse not to act.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    All throughout human history, in every part of the world, there have been revolutions, uprisings, riots, strikes and protests

    yeah but all throughout human history, people have had meaningful human connections to each other. meanwhile, in the western world today, it feels like you can be accused of sexual harassment for looking at somebody too long.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    I'm a little confused. Are you saying people are not rioting because they're scared of being accused of sexual harassment? Or do you think that sexual harassment used to be seen as something harmless and 'meaningful?'

    Do you believe that people would be more likely to act if sexual harassment was (still) accepted? I guess I just don't get your point.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Well, you just outed yourself as a part of the problem

    If you're constantly being accused of being a creep, I'm going to go with the simple answer

    You're a creep

    It's amazing how I've never had this problem, and have many meaningful connections with all sorts of people

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  • i'm going to go with the simple answer

    "I've never had this problem" sounds a lot like "it works on my machine". or "there's not a police problem because i've never been targeted". it really just means that you're part of the favored part of society with favored traits and characteristics.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    I gave what I think I should to my family, they should be able to make it with that. If they fuck up, I don't really feel that I must continue to support them. I will go full AWOL in that case. Anything is better than spending your life for someone else's family.

    (I have no partner/child, just parents and brother. Idk what to do about my brother, I give him 2k allowance a month to teach him financial literacy).

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Between my parents and my sister-in-law I have 3 adults I'm anticipating I might have to financially support at some point in the future.

    My sister in law is entirely financially supported by her partner who's 40 years older than her, but they have no savings to speak of, and she's spent her entire adult life scraping by and hasn't worked a single job for more than a year and has been fired from every job she's held. Their primary income is her partner's social security disability payments and a small amount of retirement income from when he was working. Whenever he dies (which it's honestly incredible that he's still alive because he's done nothing to help his body and everything to hinder its continued survival) she's going to be completely SOL, so we've already accepted that she will have to move in with us.

    My parents might have finally started actually budgeting, and that was only after I bought their plane tickets to a funeral without it being a major financial hit for me and then they heard me talking finances and long-term financial planning with another relative and realized it's past time for them to shape up. I don't know whether or not they have actually been budgeting, and I don't know if they have a stable retirement to look forwards to. I also can't stand them for more than a few hours at a time so we absolutely can't share a house with them.

    Right now my medium term plan is to get a house that's more appropriate for 5 people, then later construct an ADU in case my parents need it (and I'd probably rent it to a friend in the mean time) and later on one or both of my kids can probably rent the ADU from us to help them build independence and real world living skills. I'm not thrilled that I have to be the financially responsible one, but here I am so I might as well make the best of it

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I play this role in my family too, have for a long time. I have a "good" job, and I'm extremely grateful, but even with that we've been solidly losing ground for a few years now. Had to make increasingly kinda desperate moves to retain the required stability to be able to just predictably house myself and my loved ones, both the present folks under my roof and keeping an eye toward the future.

    All signs (to me) point to this situation getting much worse, and I see no concrete expectations of improvement on the horizon. Can't think of one hopeful signal. And I know very, very well that my family and I are clearly among the more fortunate, all things considered.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Wtf, 40 years older. He is not even rich by the sounds of it.

    What happened here?

    To be fair, my family is probably going AWOL also, knowing them. But I'd like to spend most of my time in peace and solitude to unfuck myself.

    Of course, I'm talking about a situation where I think I will probably die.

    EDIT: My grandpa spent his life supporting us and building a massive house, only grandma left to maintain it, and no one actually wants to live there...he died just before he got his rights to a pension.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago

    Trump/Epstein class: "They still have money we could plunder!"

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    I've never understood why people get so excited about tax refunds, but this provides some context.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Tax refunds act as forced savings for many people. It's not a good way to save as the government pays no interest on the savings. The the people then blow the money immediately on major purchases or paying down debt buildup.

    Personally, I always tried to make it so that I didn't get a tax return. I always figured it cost me significant money in cash flow through the year. Always pissed me off to overpay in taxes when I could have used the money for critical things I needed during the year.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    the government pays no interest

    I can't remember the last time I saw a bank pay interest, either. If you want to grow a principle balance, you need to invest it, and that gets real iffy when the demented gameshow host decides to manipulate the markets.

    It seems like my 401k dips $5k every afternoon when Trump promises something insane, then bounces back the next morning when he doesn't follow through.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    If you have more than a few thousand in your bank you need to look at their financial offerings or consider opening a high yield savings account at a larger bank. My credit union has a few offerings which give 2-3% interest as long as you maintain a balance over a certain amount (usually 1-5k) but most of the account offerings that are more focused on being fee-free only yield about 0.25% interest. And this is all without dipping into actual brokerage and other more risky financial products

    Basically it's the difference between $10k earning you $25 a year or earning you $300-400/year

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You can open a brokerage account like Fidelity and put the money in a 3-4% cash account(like spaxx). Takes about 10 minutes and it's low risk. Can get your money any time like a bank.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    This is the ideal way to handle your emergency fund, toss it in a high yield savings account with a different bank from your every day one, and then it's harder to tap into if you have a mild inconvenience. Between the high yield savings account and CDs that I keep about 1/3 of my emergency fund tied up in, my emergency fund is earning me about $500/year. Is that a life changing amount of money? Of course not! But it is enough that I can basically never touch my emergency fund and it should hold its value a bit above inflation indefinitely. And as a bonus it's all FDIC insured!

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Not all tax rebates are due to the government over collecting either

    I'll be getting about $1600-$2000 just because I Used a certain amount of money towards buying my first home. It's not money that I gave the government ahead of schedule, it's money I wouldn't have gotten unless I did certain things and filed certain paperwork.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Yeah, I knew the republicans were about to fuck over homeowners on the 30% solar tax credit.

    Pulled the trigger and now I’m getting back 37k this year and the remainder next… worth it.

    The goal otherwise should always be to not owe and not get shit back.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Below a certain income, an average lower-middle class family will generally get more back in tax refunds than they pay in income taxes. A family of 4 making 50k per year (fairly livable in much of the country actually!) might only pay in 3-4k in income tax but then receive 6-8k in credits for the child tax credits, earned income credits, etc.

    And for a lower-middle class family that tends to be the biggest amount of money they see at any given time. They're only bringing in about $2500/month after taxes, retirement contributions and insurance, and that's got to cover all living expenses. Recieving a nice big check each year tends to be the best way to be able to make a comparably large financial move, often paying down debt that's built up over the year, maybe buying a new car (I know I did that one year, put the entire tax credit into a used car, and that was the very first car we owned outright!) or if it's been a good year that money can be spent on fun stuff

    The other side of the coin is that for the overwhelming majority of people who's earnings are coming from their jobs, the amount of money that gets withheld for taxes simply isn't enough to make enough money in interest to be worth while. If you pay $300/month in income taxes (not unrealistic) it would take 4 months before you've got enough to buy the smallest short term CD you can, then that 9 month CD for example will only earn you about $30 before you cash it in in February to pay your taxes. Basically in order for placing your tax money into safe investments to pay enough to be worthwhile, your tax bill would need to be so large that you'd already be paying quarterly anyways and already have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about your tax withholdings not earning you interest.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago

    Aged like wine

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I have my deductions set up where I always owe $50-200 when tax time rolls around. Those fuckers are not getting all of it upfront.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I see it every day and I've been there.

    It wouldn't be surprising to find out that this is skewed towards young adults and seniors.

    I was the young person with next to no savings and facing a nearly impossible situation of "saving" anything. Lots of us leave home in our teens with nothing or close to it. Then it's a struggle just to get all the pieces in order, and all the while, the pieces you already managed to get in place break down, get stolen, need fixing, need replacing, and so on. That first step of just keeping your head above the water is not easy, especially without support.

    And then towards the later years, peoples' health fails them. They find it harder to keep a job and harder to make the same money they did when they were younger. Healthcare is expensive, even with insurance. Husbands and wives pass away, leaving you with the financial fallout. Even if you saved, the true costs of inflation come when you go to buy food and medicine and even when you need to pay someone to fix your car -- regardless of what the official numbers are.

    Granted, "cash savings" means even people who are otherwise relatively well off in terms of assets fall into this category. So, it's also not a great assumption to assume that all these people are in difficult/dire situations.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Lots of us leave home in our teens with nothing or close to it. Then it’s a struggle just to get all the pieces in order, and all the while, the pieces you already managed to get in place break down, get stolen, need fixing, need replacing, and so on. That first step of just keeping your head above the water is not easy, especially without support

    This is so much the struggle of one's 20s, you're spending so much money acquiring the stuff you need to live and replacing it as it gets stolen/broken/doesn't make it through a move. I remember when it was a big purchasing decision to buy a vacuum cleaner for my second apartment. We still have that vacuum cleaner and use it regularly, so that's a hundred dollars or more that I haven't needed to spend for years, but I had to spend that when that vacuum cost multiple months of discretionary budget, budget that could've gotten sucked up by a repair or a medical bill or replacing something else that got ruined or broken.

    But this also all happens at a time when you aren't making a lot of money, so if you do it right, you hit your 30s already owning some nice stuff that you'll have for a long time and with a career making good money so suddenly your savings can start balooning pretty quickly as you spend less and make more

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Wow, I had no idea that Americans were that poor. And here I thought I was poor.

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  • [+] -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Thats insane to me how anyone could make over 200k and not feel rich. I feel super rich and between me and SO make like 180k. I still feel like I have it way too good.

    No kids tho. That helps. But really we can buy mostly anything we want and go on vacations. I own a few cars, all over 15 years old, fix em myself. That saves car payments. House is 50 years old and has old appliances and stuff that we have to fix on it often.

    What we dont have that I know other people in my life do (probably the ones who think they're "poor"),

    4 wheelers/side by side by sides

    A huge shop

    A huge camper

    Big bro trucks that were 80k new

    A vacation home

    2 week long trips to resorts

    Snowmobiles

    Boats

    That shit adds up. Ive never gave a fuck about keeping up with the Joneses. I havent bought clothes in over 10 years. Ive maybe bought new clothes less than 5 times ever in my life. Besides shoes.

    All this said, fuck rich people. Everyone deserves to live. There's hundreds of thousands of empty heated buildings just sitting there empty that folks could at least live in to not freeze.

    The issue in america is people think "the left " wants to take all your money. Yeah we dont care about the piddly shit. We want to tax the fucking billionaires. Drump is the one raising taxes on the poor. But Americans are idiots.

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    [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    This has been true since $500 was worth $1000, iirc

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Gotta pump those percentages up!

    Signed: The billionaires.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Retirement doesn't exist anymore.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Slowly but surely, my income is weakening. I used to be able to regularly put about $300 a month into savings a decade ago, if I stuck to ramen and minimized going out. Now I am treading water - not enough to save, just to sustain my lifestyle. I am expecting my ABLE savings to become completely worthless, if I don't spend them or convert them into a currency that isn't American.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Oh stop with all the greatness America

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    That tracks with my experiences. It's partly lack of money, but it's partly financial irresponsibility. A lot of Americans are so used to crisis and struggle that they treat every windfall as a treat because they think that their savings slowly fading away or getting eaten in a few chunks is a problem rather than evidence of crises they didn't have to suffer through. Add in the fact that their lifestyles rise to match their income and there's no room for savings.

    That's not enough to resolve the big stuff, a low earner isn't buying a house on saved tax returns. But a medium income household might be, and a low income household may be setting themselves up for disaster by buying too expensive of a car because they can afford the payments.

    Too few Americans understand that living paycheck to paycheck should be seen as dire financial straits. The goal should be a few months expenses in savings, and if you can take a lifestyle hit to get there you should. My wife and I live in a studio apartment because we were worried about draining our savings too quickly while unemployed.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It would take well over a decade for a medium income household to save up enough money for a down payment on a house with their tax returns. And that's assuming it was placed in a safe investment the whole time like in CDs or bonds. The housing market's just too expensive. I can see the appeal of people using up their money when they get it if it means saving might take an unbearable amount of time, not that it's in their best interest to however.

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  • [+] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [+] 2 points 7 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I bought a 100k house 4 years ago with about 13k in down payment+closing costs. Yes I live in a smallish town and that comes with some compromises, but it is an option that exists for people. With the subsequent boom and then normalization of house prices my house has gained about 40k in value, so where I closed with a purchase price of ~120k, it's now showing a value of around 160k (and peaked around 180k a year or two ago)

    There's also plenty of large and major cities with home values of around 200-400k if owning property is your long term goal. Quite frankly if that is your long term goal there are options. Maybe you buy a fixer-upper and invest a bunch into repairs and renovations over time. Maybe you have a friend or two you can have join you in a purchase to increase your buying power. Maybe you buy a duplex/multifamily home with a friend or 3. Maybe you buy a duplex/multifamily home and rent out the other units to strangers. Maybe there's a nice place where you can still commute into your city where home values aren't outrageous. Maybe you know someone who aready owns a house and you can convince them to build an ADU for you to rent, or even come to an aggreement to finance the ADU and later subdivide the lot so you can eventually own the property. Maybe you get a property that can be a business like a wedding venue or a museum or a hotel? Maybe you up and leave and move halfway across the country or halfway around the world. Maybe you sell everything, leave everything behind and go buy a small house in the country and drive a school bus or start an organic greenhouse or run a shop. Options exist especially at your income level. You just have to be willing to take a risk

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not pretending that shit isn't bad, but doomerism isn't going to help anything. I'm trying to inject some hope in because if you can't build a better future if you can't imagine a better future. At the individual scale there are always options other than renting forever, and some can be really brilliant options for the right people

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  • [+] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Again, shits bad, but you're conflating the experience in famously unaffordable cities to the entire country.

    The median home sale price in the US for Q4 of 2025 is almost exactly 400k. A conventional 30 year mortgage with 20% down comes out to a monthly payment of $2200/mo, and for a healthy ~30% debt to income you'd need a household income of about $100k/yr. Yeah that's not great at all, but that's with everything 100% conventional and median. You can reach 100k household income with 2 incomes pretty easily since most professional careers will pay around 40-60k/yr

    Shop for more of a starter home at 300k (again, the median is 400k which means depending on the market you can very easily spend more or less than that and there's plenty of large cities with home prices starting around the 200k range) and that comes down to about $1800/mo or a household income of 70k. That's feesible for a single working professional at mid/late career, but more importantly that's an easy household income to hit with 2 average working class incomes

    Again, shits bad but it's not completely unattainable in most of the country. Saying that because no average person can realistically expect to be able to buy a home in LA or Seattle or New York therefore nobody can isn't spitting facts, it's being a doomer. Can an average person expect to buy a property in a city where the median home price is nearly 7 figures? Of course not! But that's not the reality for most of the country.

    Most large cities follow the median home price of 400k, some happen to have lower and some happen to have higher medians. And even better, for a person who isn't too married to the idea of living in a major city, small town America has plenty of wonderful homes for under 200k or even under 100k and some of these small towns are actually quite lovely and haven't been completely destroyed by conservative politics. Again, I'm being real here, shits bad, but it ain't the shitshow youre describing for the entire county

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    What does cash savings even mean? I would assume that most people have their savings in a bank account...

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Important

    We defined cash savings as checking accounts that people consider savings, savings accounts, money market accounts, brokerage/investment accounts (nonretirement), certificates of deposit (CDs) and cash at home.

    https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/cash-savings-study.html

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Well I had 1000, but bought my son a car and needed repairs. But like I keep trying.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    For the first time ever I managed to put $5000 a side, then my septic drain field failed and I found out what I had been saving for.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Well first had almost 1000 and the hotwater tank shat the bed. No big deal bought new one installed. But now my son car we just bought needed 600 in repairs. So back at square one. Sucks too because use Ally bank for my emergency fund because they give great interest rates.

    Good news is spoke to wife she keeping a 1000 in her savings that she will not touch and she hoards her tip money like a dragon that we have another 500 or more in cash. Of course we using 250 of that for my son birthday. But doesn't take her long to build that back up and she normally refuses to use it.

    Love my wife we have no money issues because of her. She acts like we are super broke all the time. Me I get enough funds I blow it. But she makes me a saver and it has pull us out of the fire many times.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago

    I believe cash savings refer to liquid assets. That is to say, a savings account is a cash savings account, whereas an IRA or 401k are not, because the cash is tied up in investments.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    That's becoming my take, too. What surveys mean to ask is liquid assets, money people have immediate access to. But most Americans are too uneducated to understand what that means, so they ask about cash. But many people probably think that's a question about how much paper money they have.

    Basically, they ask a question in a dumb way to get around how dumb Americans are, but the result is a dumb statistic.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That's not at all what they asked.

    We defined cash savings as checking accounts that people consider savings, savings accounts, money market accounts, brokerage/investment accounts (nonretirement), certificates of deposit (CDs) and cash at home.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    But but they can carry a gun, and teh HoeMoez can't use a public john! USA! USA!

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

    they cite numbers about "cash savings" but then imply that that's equivalent to savings in general, or liquid assets. like, I'm lucky enough to have a decent amount in my bank account, but my cash savings is probably like, forty bucks? I hardly ever use cash and when I do I just go to an ATM beforehand, why should I have hundreds of dollars in cash lying around? is that what they're talking about, or is "cash savings" some colloquialism or term of art that I'm unfamiliar with that also includes other things than strictly cash?

    edit: to be clear, I'm aware many if not most Americans are in dire financial situations, not trying to dispute that, the wording just seems weird. my first instinct is they probably do mean liquid assets, but to use the word "cash" when "liquid" is a more accurate word that would still be understood by a broad audience seems like an odd choice to me. maybe that's just a bit of my slightly pedantic tendencies

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I think it usually includes savings accounts

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Definitely. This isn't about physical "cash", this is about all liquidity across cash, checking and savings accounts. From the survey itself:

    Most have little to no cushion. 14% of Americans have no cash savings, including 32% of those earning less than $30,000 a year, 20% of women and 16% of Gen Zers. Additionally, another 32% have some savings but less than $1,000. Almost half (45%) wouldn’t be able to cover more than a month of essentials if their income stopped, while just 21% could cover essentials for more than six months.

    Almost half of Americans are a couple paychecks away from homelessness. It's dire.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    I don't know why people would downvote you. I came here to complain about the same thing.

    The actual problem is the shitty as usual reporting from faux news. The article never defines "cash savings" and provides no link to the referenced study. It's lazy slop.

    PSA: Y'all, please don't post faux news ever. Find a better source or the original source. Thanks!

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    They are getting downvoted because other commenters here who have actually read the article have found and quoted the definition of cash, which includes savings.

    As it pretty much always does in any financial reporting has in the past 50 years. This same story keeps getting re-reported on every 5 years and the conversations around it are always the same.

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