It's all an illusion. You don't need Claude to create, the ability has always been in you
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Waiting for the Anthropic PR saying that the outage was due to their new Claude Mythos model trying to escape confinement and being so powerful that it brought the whole Anthropic down.
do it yourself, like in the distant past of *checks calendar* six months ago
Claude is used mainly for writing code, it is substantially faster at writing code than a human
Question is do we need more code, or better code?
It's substantially faster than most programmers at finding bugs too.
Who are you asking that question to? I don't care about your code, make it as shitty as you want
Less code is better code. And you’re response indicates you do not understand that point.
You're right I have no idea, I use it for scripts, it works well, you guys are all linux nerds talking about philosophy that I don't care for
I need code to make a script, it works, end of story, I don't care about your philosophy on less code more code better code worse code, and I'm pretty sure most businesses don't care either
sure let's just burn down half a hectare of the amazon for a seven line script.
engineering philosophy is where the rubber hits the road. building software with the right philosophy can mean the difference between needing a datacenter or a raspberry pi for the same job. it directly translates to money saved in recurring costs.
i've not actually looked at the demographics. is that available somewhere?
what's everyone else doing then? isn't it specifically for code?
sure let’s just burn down half a hectare of the amazon for a seven line script
that would probably be a couple hundred tokens so the same energy use as a google search
a google ai search, sure. a normal web search uses several orders of magnitude less energy.
to be fair I use https://www.ecosia.org/ which is climate positive so anything else I do on the web is carbon negative, however I also have solar and a battery and export power at night so I am technically climate positive (I reduce more emissions than I make)
also I mainly use lechat tbh, it's french and aims to be climate friendly:
The project will support large-scale AI model training and inference workloads, leveraging Sweden’s renewable energy capacity and EcoDataCenter’s established footprint in sustainable data center operations. The facility is expected to be powered primarily by renewable energy sources, aligning with both companies’ commitments to reducing the carbon intensity of AI compute.
https://dcpulse.com/news/mistral-ai-ecodc-ai-facility-sweden
If the grid is more green, the data centres are more green, and in the most tech heavy place on earth:
The growing portfolio of grid-scale batteries in California, the world’s fourth biggest economy, hit a stunning new peak earlier this week, reaching a share of 44 pct of evening demand at once stage in the early evening.
They're rapidly getting pretty green
It's not my fault Americans are innovative enough to come up with a magic computer code box but not smart enough to install a bunch of solar panels and batteries :\
so fun fact, i live within walking distance of that dc project (close enough that i was invited to attend a presentation by edc on what it would do to the immediate area) and i've done the math on the grid load. the hydro plants in the city currently meets about 40% of its needs. edc wants 750MW of reserve power generation (that's diesel) installed on the site. if we assume that's double their average usage, they will still more than double the energy needs of the city. and that's in the middle of an infrastructure crisis that means we're stuck buying german coal.
ecosia has always felt kinda skeevy to me, because tree planting isn't actually carbon positive. it becomes positive after 40 or so years, granted that the trees are not cut down. which is usually what happens. also, just like ddg, ecosia is dependent on bing, the search provider with the worst carbon footprint, to function.
and i probably don't need to tell you what cobalt mining does to the environment or the people who handle it.
so it does help to look deeper at the things in your daily life :)
that means we’re stuck buying german coal.
is germany increasing or decreasing the amount of coal it burns every year?
ecosia has always felt kinda skeevy to me, because tree planting isn’t actually carbon positive. it becomes positive after 40 or so years, granted that the trees are not cut down. which is usually what happens.
they have a blog post on this
https://blog.ecosia.org/how-do-ecosia-trees-survive-cut-down/
the tree counter for example aims to match reality not hope:
For instance, if we plant 1000 trees and know from experience that the mortality rate in this area is 25%, we’ll only add 750 trees to our tree counter. We continually measure the survival rate of the trees we plant, through inventories and satellite technology, and adjust our tree counter accordingly.
Pretty much every tree planting project now involves cooperating with the local community around the trees, in some cases money goes to them to buy goods to prevent them from needing to cut down the trees
Not only that but tbh it’s just a good thing :)
also, just like ddg, ecosia is dependent on bing, the search provider with the worst carbon footprint, to function.
you are out of the game too long, they switched to google a while ago:
but! even better!
For the first time in its 16-year history, Ecosia users in France will now receive a proportion of their search results directly from EUSP’s independent European index. The rollout aims to serve 30% of French search queries by the end of the year.
How exciting!
Try to stay positive eh ;)
is germany increasing or decreasing the amount of coal it burns every year?
right now, they're ramping up massively.
they have a blog post on this
that's nice, if a bit loose. i hope it's a working solution.
you are out of the game too long, they switched to google a while ago
that link is broken for me, but from their privacy policy it seems they use both. not that google is any better, unfortunately.
For the first time in its 16-year history, Ecosia users in France will now receive a proportion of their search results directly from EUSP’s independent European index.
that's very good to hear. hopefully it rolls out to more than just france.
Try to stay positive eh ;)
thanks for the reminder. genuinely.
Unless you maintain and protect a large swath of nature
what about this
https://www.bankaust.com.au/about-us/conservation-reserve
😁
the energy costs for the restaurant to operate, maintain their structure, maintain the roads for you and the employees to get to and from, costs of employee transit
that would be split though? a bit like a bus or train, average costs to produce the meals would be lower as they’re made in bulk
You are highly unlikely to be cradle to grave climate positive
that is true, you can see my ecologi link in my profile with my eventual goal, although that’s just for the sake of it
i have recently funded a second solar battery which should reduce another few thousand co2’s out of the air every year pushing me even further co2 positive
there is also corena which i want to donate too after this damn russin invasion is up, money goes to them, they lend it out at low interest rates, the money comes back and they can lend it out again, pretty damn good
there is still work to be done though, never give up!
Stop talking as if you give any semblance of a shit about the art and craft of programming. You clearly don’t.
code is not the product. code is the tool we use to build the product. it's not about swinging your hammer, it's about knowing where to put the nails.
Not just where to put the nails but also how hard to swing the hammer, when to stop swinging it, etc.
That's kind of a point for it? If the code isn't the product, then it doesn't matter who made it if the product is built properly. And sota models certainly know where to put the nails.
A better analogy would be a 3d printer. Much quicker than carving stuff out of wood. Might fail a print but it's still faster. It's not exactly food safe so avoid using it for something important. Obviously, it works well for small things but trying to build a house out of 3d printed bricks is going to yield failure.
Not the best analogy though but nails and hammers and monkeys is just missing the point completely imo.
after the client leak i should think it was even more poignant. a bit like tearing down a wall and finding it full of mouldy razor blades
Not sure what you mean by this tbh. The client list in relation to the product? Do you mean the source code leak? That's a bit what I mean by it not being safe for everything and trying to build a house out of 3d printed bricks. I'm not even certain the code leak was caused by AI generated code anyways.
I personally only build small internal apps for the rest of the team. We don't ship software.
Granted, every tool has its use and most can be used for the wrong thing if you try hard enough. It's also easier to use it for the wrong thing with AI, has to be said.
think of it like this. you build small tools for internal use, so code quality, maintainability and documentation are not your highest priorities, right? most important is to ship the features needed by your colleagues right now. i've been in that same boat, building internal testing tools for a big multinational.
say your tool contains shortcuts for interacting with some internal database. you don't need auth because it's all on the internal net, so it's just a collection of shortcuts. you don't really care about maintainability, because it's all just temporary, so you throw every new request together in the fastest way you can, probably trying out new techniques to keep yourself entertained. you don't really care about testability, because you're the only one testing so you can check that everything works before doing a release and if something slips through one of your colleagues will walk down the hall and tell you.
now imagine it gets enough attention that your boss says "we want our customers to use this". suddenly your priorities are upended: you absolutely need auth, you definitely need testability and you absolutely definitely need the tool to not mess things up. best possible world, you can reimplement the tool in a more manageable way, making sure every interface is consistent, documentation is up to snuff for users, and error handling is centralised.
the claude cli leak is the opposite of that. it's the worst code quality i've ever seen. it's full of errors, repeated code, and overzealous exception handling. it is absolutely unmaintainable. the functionality for figuring out what type a file is and reading it into a proper object is 38 000 lines of typescript, excluding the class definitions. the entire thing is half a million lines. the code for uploading a pdf calls the code to upload jpegs, because if a file isn't identified it's automatically a jpeg. and jpegs can go through the same compression routine up to 22 times before it tries to upload them because the handler just calls itself repeatedly.
and this is the code they thought was robust enough to withstand the internet. imagine what their internal tooling looks like.
i will never understand that attitude. four hours of exploration, learning and puzzle-solving sounds like the best part of the job. an isolated, well-specified problem that can be completed in a day is like the most fun you can have programming. why swap that for an hour of code review?
sounds like you should transition to being an architect
faster != better
In fact,
faster != good
works for me and apparently a shitload of other people because the thing is so popular it can't stop crashing from people using the hell out of it
It can be rather helpful for some things but I've yet to see any actual data supporting it being "substantially faster". To make something that works and is of equal quality, that is.
I mean if you're just making the same slightly different website for different customers or similarly boilerplate stuff, I'm sure it's substantial. But that's not really most of dev.
Yeah i duno, it's helped me make a massive script to automate a hugely time consuming part of my job saving literally 10's of thousands of hours of work, I'm using it to also setup a boilerplate website that links to our backend to monitor services, it has also helped me setup home automation which makes me money (export power to grid during peak time), and I use it daily for any number of things, it's great
Seems to work well for other people as well:
Claude Code hit $1 billion in annualized run-rate revenue in the first six months after its release and has since grown to $2.5 billion, the company said. Once used primarily by AI-forward startups, Claude Code has gained traction with engineering teams at Fortune 500 companies and even among hobbyists lacking technical skills who are interested in building their own apps. It’s been used for everything from growing a tomato plant to helping plan the route of a NASA Mars rover. On social media, users describe themselves as “Claude-pilled,” or Claude-obsessed.
But who knows, maybe it's just 3d printing 2.0
If it writes a bunch of code, but it's mostly slop and dogshit and introduces bugs at an alarming rate, does speed matter?
Hello! You are the 1908321094318709312th person to say this line today, here is your award 🍰
I’ll take that as a sign you’ve never written a single line of code in your life, since if you actually did so, you’d soon realise it’s like having a fast typing, cocaine fuelled intern as a sidekick, who only saw a couple stack overflow code snippets in your language of choice and ran with it.
Then maybe there's something here to learn from for you. Or don't and assume that your vibe coding skills are the same as career engineers who've dedicated their lives to writing quality systems and producing beautiful code?
If it speeds up your workflow by that much (and I'll admit it does make some tasks trivial for me now) that's way more telling about your current skillset than the general state of the art.
i don’t get it what am i supposed to be learning?
Or don’t and assume that your vibe coding skills are the same as career engineers
I don’t? stop assuming im a professional coder, i’ve said multiple times what i use it for in this very thread
producing beautiful code?
tell that to microsoft and salesforce and slack and jira and every other piece of junk software that was garbage before ai
if ai is fixing bugs in their shitty “beautifully coded” software so much the better
You can always tell who the vibe/shit/non coders are by the way they pontificate AI as some revolution that completely changes software, instead of yet another tool that has significant tradeoffs...
"But mongo DB is web scale!?!" — dunning-krugers
I just used Claude yesterday to add some functionality to an existing python script that interacts with AWS. It created an unnecessary loop where 2 of 3 iterations were effectively no-ops. So while it did ultimately provide what I needed, I still had to refactor what it generated in order to remove the useless loop.
Many monkeys can in fact swing hammers harder and faster than humans.
It doesn't really make them better at it though
why are there so many lemmy users throwing weird analogies about monkeys and hammers at me
Gaaaggghhhh! Somebody turn it back on! I'm starting to form my own thoughts again! It hurts!
Surely the world's leading advocate for vibe coding wouldn't have issues with code stability. This is only their second colossal issue this week!
developers...
2000s google is not working
2010s stackoverflow is not working
2020s cloud(e) is not working
Honest question, does the world productivity goes up or down?
I would say it goes down. After all the slop users are not going to suddenly discover critical thinking.
Net negative, I'd say, especially in the long run.
By training LLMs, you're neglecting to train the entry level workers who grow to be seniors. If we keep going down this rabbit hole, there will be no one who knows 'the old ways' and understand why we do things a certain way.
Additionally, the energy consumption and land occupation is massive and far outweighs the benefits, making things more scarce, especially since more people will lose their jobs.
For the tiny % of people who actually put it to good use, there's 100x more abusing or mishandling it.
depends what you mean by productivity. cost based efficiencty has risen but at the expense of future capacity. We are kinda taking long term into account sometimes but very often even that is thrown off in the short term. Like organic and regenerative farming have been increasing as well as this thing called precision but im not sure that leaves the soil as good or better than it started it just sorta tech farming. Its a small minority that does any of that and if they seel the land the next owner may do the common farm technique that erodes the land so there is no way to know how long term it will be. granted everything im talking about does not even necessarily use ai.
If you want to simulate running Claude while it's offline, just go run the faucet in your kitchen.
shit fuck uh claude write me a witty comment to respond to this post!!1!1;
Anthropic's uptime website is actually one of the funniest jokes of this year
If you think about it, .... your anus can perform in all the common states of matter. Mine even did plasma once.
Some AI company recently developed some new software so powerful they had to warn and prepare all other major tech companies with special training so their software wouldn't be vulnerable to attacks from the new program. Maybe Anthropic didn't attend this training??
Clearly SaaS isn’t working out, so just open source all the frontier models and stop building data centers so we can all buy our own GPUs.

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