how tf am i supposed to get any work done now?

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  • [–] 45 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Question is do we need more code, or better code?

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Less code is better code. And you’re response indicates you do not understand that point.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    sure let's just burn down half a hectare of the amazon for a seven line script.

    engineering philosophy is where the rubber hits the road. building software with the right philosophy can mean the difference between needing a datacenter or a raspberry pi for the same job. it directly translates to money saved in recurring costs.

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  • [+] 5 points 7 months ago
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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (-1 children)

    i've not actually looked at the demographics. is that available somewhere?

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago*
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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    sure let’s just burn down half a hectare of the amazon for a seven line script

    that would probably be a couple hundred tokens so the same energy use as a google search

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    a google ai search, sure. a normal web search uses several orders of magnitude less energy.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    to be fair I use https://www.ecosia.org/ which is climate positive so anything else I do on the web is carbon negative, however I also have solar and a battery and export power at night so I am technically climate positive (I reduce more emissions than I make)

    also I mainly use lechat tbh, it's french and aims to be climate friendly:

    The project will support large-scale AI model training and inference workloads, leveraging Sweden’s renewable energy capacity and EcoDataCenter’s established footprint in sustainable data center operations. The facility is expected to be powered primarily by renewable energy sources, aligning with both companies’ commitments to reducing the carbon intensity of AI compute.

    https://dcpulse.com/news/mistral-ai-ecodc-ai-facility-sweden

    If the grid is more green, the data centres are more green, and in the most tech heavy place on earth:

    The growing portfolio of grid-scale batteries in California, the world’s fourth biggest economy, hit a stunning new peak earlier this week, reaching a share of 44 pct of evening demand at once stage in the early evening.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/grid-batteries-reach-stunning-new-peak-of-44-pct-of-evening-demand-in-worlds-fourth-biggest-economy/

    They're rapidly getting pretty green

    It's not my fault Americans are innovative enough to come up with a magic computer code box but not smart enough to install a bunch of solar panels and batteries :\

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    so fun fact, i live within walking distance of that dc project (close enough that i was invited to attend a presentation by edc on what it would do to the immediate area) and i've done the math on the grid load. the hydro plants in the city currently meets about 40% of its needs. edc wants 750MW of reserve power generation (that's diesel) installed on the site. if we assume that's double their average usage, they will still more than double the energy needs of the city. and that's in the middle of an infrastructure crisis that means we're stuck buying german coal.

    ecosia has always felt kinda skeevy to me, because tree planting isn't actually carbon positive. it becomes positive after 40 or so years, granted that the trees are not cut down. which is usually what happens. also, just like ddg, ecosia is dependent on bing, the search provider with the worst carbon footprint, to function.

    and i probably don't need to tell you what cobalt mining does to the environment or the people who handle it.

    so it does help to look deeper at the things in your daily life :)

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    that means we’re stuck buying german coal.

    is germany increasing or decreasing the amount of coal it burns every year?

    ecosia has always felt kinda skeevy to me, because tree planting isn’t actually carbon positive. it becomes positive after 40 or so years, granted that the trees are not cut down. which is usually what happens.

    they have a blog post on this

    https://blog.ecosia.org/how-do-ecosia-trees-survive-cut-down/

    the tree counter for example aims to match reality not hope:

    For instance, if we plant 1000 trees and know from experience that the mortality rate in this area is 25%, we’ll only add 750 trees to our tree counter. We continually measure the survival rate of the trees we plant, through inventories and satellite technology, and adjust our tree counter accordingly.

    Pretty much every tree planting project now involves cooperating with the local community around the trees, in some cases money goes to them to buy goods to prevent them from needing to cut down the trees

    Not only that but tbh it’s just a good thing :)

    also, just like ddg, ecosia is dependent on bing, the search provider with the worst carbon footprint, to function.

    you are out of the game too long, they switched to google a while ago:

    https://archive.md/cGE0Z

    but! even better!

    For the first time in its 16-year history, Ecosia users in France will now receive a proportion of their search results directly from EUSP’s independent European index. The rollout aims to serve 30% of French search queries by the end of the year.

    https://tech.eu/2025/08/06/ecosia-rolls-out-independent-search-results-in-europe-taking-another-giant-step-away-from-big-tech/

    How exciting!

    Try to stay positive eh ;)

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    is germany increasing or decreasing the amount of coal it burns every year?

    right now, they're ramping up massively.

    they have a blog post on this

    that's nice, if a bit loose. i hope it's a working solution.

    you are out of the game too long, they switched to google a while ago

    that link is broken for me, but from their privacy policy it seems they use both. not that google is any better, unfortunately.

    For the first time in its 16-year history, Ecosia users in France will now receive a proportion of their search results directly from EUSP’s independent European index.

    that's very good to hear. hopefully it rolls out to more than just france.

    Try to stay positive eh ;)

    thanks for the reminder. genuinely.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago
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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (-1 children)

    Unless you maintain and protect a large swath of nature

    what about this

    https://www.bankaust.com.au/about-us/conservation-reserve

    😁

    the energy costs for the restaurant to operate, maintain their structure, maintain the roads for you and the employees to get to and from, costs of employee transit

    that would be split though? a bit like a bus or train, average costs to produce the meals would be lower as they’re made in bulk

    You are highly unlikely to be cradle to grave climate positive

    that is true, you can see my ecologi link in my profile with my eventual goal, although that’s just for the sake of it

    i have recently funded a second solar battery which should reduce another few thousand co2’s out of the air every year pushing me even further co2 positive

    there is also corena which i want to donate too after this damn russin invasion is up, money goes to them, they lend it out at low interest rates, the money comes back and they can lend it out again, pretty damn good

    https://corenafund.org.au/

    there is still work to be done though, never give up!

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  • [+] -11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    It's substantially faster than most programmers at finding bugs too.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    code is not the product. code is the tool we use to build the product. it's not about swinging your hammer, it's about knowing where to put the nails.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    That's kind of a point for it? If the code isn't the product, then it doesn't matter who made it if the product is built properly. And sota models certainly know where to put the nails.

    A better analogy would be a 3d printer. Much quicker than carving stuff out of wood. Might fail a print but it's still faster. It's not exactly food safe so avoid using it for something important. Obviously, it works well for small things but trying to build a house out of 3d printed bricks is going to yield failure.

    Not the best analogy though but nails and hammers and monkeys is just missing the point completely imo.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    after the client leak i should think it was even more poignant. a bit like tearing down a wall and finding it full of mouldy razor blades

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Not sure what you mean by this tbh. The client list in relation to the product? Do you mean the source code leak? That's a bit what I mean by it not being safe for everything and trying to build a house out of 3d printed bricks. I'm not even certain the code leak was caused by AI generated code anyways.

    I personally only build small internal apps for the rest of the team. We don't ship software.

    Granted, every tool has its use and most can be used for the wrong thing if you try hard enough. It's also easier to use it for the wrong thing with AI, has to be said.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (-1 children)

    think of it like this. you build small tools for internal use, so code quality, maintainability and documentation are not your highest priorities, right? most important is to ship the features needed by your colleagues right now. i've been in that same boat, building internal testing tools for a big multinational.

    say your tool contains shortcuts for interacting with some internal database. you don't need auth because it's all on the internal net, so it's just a collection of shortcuts. you don't really care about maintainability, because it's all just temporary, so you throw every new request together in the fastest way you can, probably trying out new techniques to keep yourself entertained. you don't really care about testability, because you're the only one testing so you can check that everything works before doing a release and if something slips through one of your colleagues will walk down the hall and tell you.

    now imagine it gets enough attention that your boss says "we want our customers to use this". suddenly your priorities are upended: you absolutely need auth, you definitely need testability and you absolutely definitely need the tool to not mess things up. best possible world, you can reimplement the tool in a more manageable way, making sure every interface is consistent, documentation is up to snuff for users, and error handling is centralised.

    the claude cli leak is the opposite of that. it's the worst code quality i've ever seen. it's full of errors, repeated code, and overzealous exception handling. it is absolutely unmaintainable. the functionality for figuring out what type a file is and reading it into a proper object is 38 000 lines of typescript, excluding the class definitions. the entire thing is half a million lines. the code for uploading a pdf calls the code to upload jpegs, because if a file isn't identified it's automatically a jpeg. and jpegs can go through the same compression routine up to 22 times before it tries to upload them because the handler just calls itself repeatedly.

    and this is the code they thought was robust enough to withstand the internet. imagine what their internal tooling looks like.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago
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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (-1 children)

    i will never understand that attitude. four hours of exploration, learning and puzzle-solving sounds like the best part of the job. an isolated, well-specified problem that can be completed in a day is like the most fun you can have programming. why swap that for an hour of code review?

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    faster != better

    In fact,

    faster != good

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (-1 children)

    It can be rather helpful for some things but I've yet to see any actual data supporting it being "substantially faster". To make something that works and is of equal quality, that is.

    I mean if you're just making the same slightly different website for different customers or similarly boilerplate stuff, I'm sure it's substantial. But that's not really most of dev.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (-1 children)

    Yeah i duno, it's helped me make a massive script to automate a hugely time consuming part of my job saving literally 10's of thousands of hours of work, I'm using it to also setup a boilerplate website that links to our backend to monitor services, it has also helped me setup home automation which makes me money (export power to grid during peak time), and I use it daily for any number of things, it's great

    Seems to work well for other people as well:

    https://archive.md/4cBEV

    Claude Code hit $1 billion in annualized run-rate revenue in the first six months after its release and has since grown to $2.5 billion, the company said. Once used primarily by AI-forward startups, Claude Code has gained traction with engineering teams at Fortune 500 companies and even among hobbyists lacking technical skills who are interested in building their own apps. It’s been used for everything from growing a tomato plant to helping plan the route of a NASA Mars rover. On social media, users describe themselves as “Claude-pilled,” or Claude-obsessed.

    But who knows, maybe it's just 3d printing 2.0

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    If it writes a bunch of code, but it's mostly slop and dogshit and introduces bugs at an alarming rate, does speed matter?

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  • [+] -12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Hello! You are the 1908321094318709312th person to say this line today, here is your award 🍰

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago*

    I’ll take that as a sign you’ve never written a single line of code in your life, since if you actually did so, you’d soon realise it’s like having a fast typing, cocaine fuelled intern as a sidekick, who only saw a couple stack overflow code snippets in your language of choice and ran with it.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    i don’t get it what am i supposed to be learning?

    Or don’t and assume that your vibe coding skills are the same as career engineers

    I don’t? stop assuming im a professional coder, i’ve said multiple times what i use it for in this very thread

    producing beautiful code?

    tell that to microsoft and salesforce and slack and jira and every other piece of junk software that was garbage before ai

    if ai is fixing bugs in their shitty “beautifully coded” software so much the better

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago*

    You can always tell who the vibe/shit/non coders are by the way they pontificate AI as some revolution that completely changes software, instead of yet another tool that has significant tradeoffs...

    "But mongo DB is web scale!?!" — dunning-krugers

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Many monkeys can in fact swing hammers harder and faster than humans.

    It doesn't really make them better at it though

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    why are there so many lemmy users throwing weird analogies about monkeys and hammers at me

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