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How did your country vote? (lemmy.ml)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
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Yesterday, a Declaration of the trafficking of enslaved Africans and Racialized Chattel Enslavement of Africans as the Gravest Crime against Humanity was voted at UNO. As usual, Israel and the USA voted against. How did your country vote? Any thoughts about it?

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[โ€“] 35 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Why am I even surprised by the US being the US anymore.

"Hey you know this thing thats super bad?"

"Of course we've known it's bad for many years now"

"Well we should officially condemn it."

"Whoa whoa let's hold up and think about that for a second."

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    • [โ€“] 76 points 7 months ago (40 children)

    wtf ireland, sweden, ukraine, united kingdom, canada, japan, iceland, hungary?

    Abstaining feels like it is just as bad as voting no.

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  • [+] 43 points 7 months ago (11 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [โ€“] 11 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    Yeah in a parliamentarian position I guess abstention is different from saying no, especially when the legislation has the votes.

    But I guess what I was trying to articulate is that it feels like they are respecting? the no votes by abstaining, IE not contradicting.

    This feels like a serious cop out on an issue as absurdly black and white as actual Chattel slavery.

    Edit: Good point though about reservations on the text, we don't know what it said, although that defense can also apply to the No's as well, which is why I shied away from it.

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  • [โ€“] 25 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    What we do know is that the full title includes "as the Gravest Crime against Humanity" and I can fully respect countries having reservations against that when there are other similarly horrible crimes. I don't know why Germany abstained but I figure that some people might be pretty angry at them if they declared the slave trade was worst than the holocaust.

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  • [+] 16 points 7 months ago (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [โ€“] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I think scale is the issue.

    Basically, it was legal to rape, murder and/or kidnap Africans. It was so profitable that the main slave dealers were African tribes/nations who would sell their prisoners of war to the slave trade - thus encouraging more war and more slavery.

    Estimates of African deaths (on the low side) are double that of the Holocaust.

    This went on for 400 years. (Nazi power lasted only about 12 years by comparison.)

    And even to this day, the African slave trade is responsible for much of the racism and division we see. So, yeah, slave trade shaped our world in many ways.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Also, they could rape their slaves, so they could have more slaves to trade and exploit. I'm not sure if that number, twice the Holocaust, is correct for deaths. Wikipedia says that 12 - 12.8 million Africans were successfully trafficked to the Americas, as records show. This is only the recorded number, and it doesn't take into account the descendants of 350 years of surviving.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 3 points 7 months ago

    Absolutely fair for them, I guess. I do think it's objectively the worst thing that ever happened as even some countries in the EU seem to back, and it's not even close. That doesn't mean other terrible things were perpetrated by the same kind of people.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    yup, the reason I left them off my initial list of call outs precisely.

    Edit: Curious if any grammar pros have an thoughts on the statement specifically, what is implied by it? Does it mean gravest of all time? Gravest currently occurring? Those are my concerns and things we / (I) don't precisely know from the context of this post.

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  • [โ€“] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I skimmed over the full text earlier, it gives reasons for why it was the gravest crime against humanity, and in general did seem like it meant the gravest that ever happened (that we know of at least).

    It also mentions (and really is about) reparations which I suspect mightve influenced the abstains even more than the assertion that it was the gravest crime. Easier to weasel yourself out of doing anything/keep reparations low if you can say you never really voted yes on that.

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    what do you think is weird about ukraine lol? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkDakZLWAAEnkyy?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago (6 children)

    Not sure what a blacked out vote means, but tons of countries voted in ways I don't agree with on this one too, so not sure why anyone should be singled out (my original point, call out collectively the failures).

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)
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  • [โ€“] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, thats not a great look, but I also understand that since 2014 Ukraine has been in a war for its very existence with Russia, and that some neo nazi groups have done a lot of the fighting and dying for them.

    I do not condone neo nazis, but I also understand Ukraine's position not to shit on some of their best war fighters during a war for existence.

    Its a complicated issue, and I think I would feel a stark difference had Ukraine been the aggressor, or had a repressive government (both things Russia is).

    I believe that Ukraine will have to reckon with this if they survive the war, just like all countries will have to reckon with the far-right groups gaining traction and power in their countries.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    i did not ask for nazi apologia bro, i dont care. you thought it was weird ukraine voting for this, i showed its a totally expected outcome given recent trends in the country, you can believe all the fairy tales your corporate overlords that form your government tell you to believe

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  • [โ€“] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Everyone should have voted no. The African enslavement was really fucked up, but "the worst human attrocity in history, ever"? The world has done some really, really, fucked up things. I don't really even know why this particular slavery would be picked out from the other slaves over thousands of years except that is was pretty recent and large scale. Why is the world even voting on this shit while on the verge of world war three, while it seems that half the rich elites running the governments are pedophiles?

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago

    Yeah no my understanding has evolved based on the skim of the article and the actual wording becoming more clear - didn't think they were going for champions of all time when I initially reacted.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 8 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    It really feels like standing their ground on past "glories" to me.

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I think it's more about not paying financial compensations for their involvement in slavery and their enrichment with it. One could use the vote "yes" as a legal argument to pursue compensation.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    They could have acknowledged it at least. Maybe it could be a first step to treat their black population with the respect they deserve for literally building their cities.

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  • [โ€“] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Acknowledged? It's always been acknowledged. This was a vote to say it was the single worst thing ever done by humanity.... Ever.

    This. Not the slave trades that lasted far longer, or any of the wars or rapings or genocides or slaughtering of children or ww2 human experiments or anything else. It was a vote to say that this one thing was the shittiest thing humanity has ever done.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    Why is that surprising? Ireland is sometimes better, I would suppose, but Sweden, Ukraine, UK, Canada, Japan, Iceland, and Hungary are all pretty damn right-wing and pro-imperialist.

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  • [โ€“] -1 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Sweden, Ukraine, UK, Canada, Japan, Iceland, and Hungary are all pretty damn right-wing and pro-imperialist.

    What an absolutely preposterous statement.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    How so? All are dictatorships of capital that rely on exploiting the global south, or play a role as a vassal state for imperialist countries.

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  • [โ€“] -3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    How tf do Ukraine and Hungary exploit the global south?

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago

    yeah i dont its not like ewwwwrope in general is connected to the usonian war machine, yes you are right if things are not 2 + 2 they must not be real, it's not like there is a complex mechanism designed specifically to mechanize atrocities and commodify them yes you are right im sorry.

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  • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago

    Ukraine is more of a vassal than one of the bigger imperialists, it's used similarly to how Israel is by the US Empire. It's itself being harvested for rare Earth minerals and shackled with tons of debt while at the same time being used to attack enemies of the west. Hungary is both a NATO and EU member state, it's firmly on the side of the imperialist system.

    Imperialism essentially is monopoly capitalism at its most developed stage, turned international. In the modern day, the US Empire is at the helm of this, with the EU and other NATO countries being used to protect this system of international extraction. By being in NATO, Hungary plays a part in defending this system, and by being in the EU, it benefits from imperialist spoils.

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    • [โ€“] 45 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You only posted half of the title.

    Declaration of the Trafficking of Enslaved Africans and Racialized Chattel Enslavement of Africans as the Gravest Crime against Humanity

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    • [โ€“] 19 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Cries quietly in Indigenous slaughter

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    • [โ€“] 16 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Abstaining means against in my book

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    • [โ€“] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    So the US voted against so it didn't pass, yet again, I presume?

    Fuck veto voting

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    • [โ€“] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    My disappointment in the US continues to be consistent and expected.

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  • [โ€“] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    i sometimes wonder how the us will develop in some future where the petrodollar is no longer the world's currency; would it be like the uk/netherlands/belgium still clinging to colonialism or will it be spain/portrugal still trying to cling onto colonialism despite not being part of the club anymore.

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    • [+] 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
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    • [โ€“] 9 points 7 months ago

    For! And would you look at that... Practically all of europe abstaining, color me shocked (ยฌ_ยฌ)

    Also... Argentina? YUCK! Sadly not a surprise either.

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    [โ€“] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    So Serbia is the only European country with balls?

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  • [โ€“] [S] 3 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Turkiye also voted in favor. I get the reservation, but it's EU.

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    • [โ€“] 14 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    It's the Same Map As Always, USA + vassals Vs Rest of the World.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 9 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Is it? It's not really subtle.

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  • [โ€“] 9 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    The yearly vote about blockade on Cuba is kind of an exception, even EU and the Oceanian Plankton usually vote "for".

    My favourite is the voting about combating the glorification of nazism, really says all

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    So this one is interesting to me because of the rhetoric used by the Ruzzianz during the early days of the Ukraine "Special Military Operation".

    Lots of talk about going into Ukraine and de-nazifying.

    Curious if that played into this vote in any way, considering this vote occurred right in the middle of that. Poor form not to bring up this VERY important context.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Of fucking course you nazi lovers would have problems with combating the glorification of the nazism and justify this with the fact that you do support nazis.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago* (2 children)

    dude you just took this from zero to one hundred, this is a legitimate point of discussion on the topic at hand especially when you consider the date of the vote. If you think based on anything I have written that I am a nazi or nazi supporter I have several bridges for sale that might interest you.

    Chill out.

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  • [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You immediately throw yourself to add the vErY iMpOrTaNt cOnTexT that the countries voting against combating the glorification of nazism voted as such not only because they happen to currently support country where glorification of nazism is officially supported, but they also did it because they are being so petty to vote just because they oppose the country presenting the resolution.

    Especially completely shameful for country like Poland which lost 6 million people to nazi murderers.

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  • [โ€“] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You've walked into a Tankie bar. This should be expected.

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    • [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago

    the UK:

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    [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago

    USA I made a little poem

    Our president is child Making our reputation be defiled Seen as a big whiny bully While hiding his crimes obscurely

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    [โ€“] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yet again the genocide of first nations peoples/aboriginals is kind of forgotten. All crimes on a massive scale should be remembered by the international community and when one is elevated as the worst I fear that it will incentivise forgetting of the others and potential rascism clash poits.

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    • [โ€“] 12 points 7 months ago

    "against :3" they're using that emote in UN votes now?

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    [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago

    If you know the us votes against anyways, why abstain?

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    [โ€“] 10 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    What does this vote achieve?

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  • [โ€“] 20 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    It's meant to help get reparations for imperialized people

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  • [โ€“] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Ah cool. I get Canadas vote then, kinda support it but poor wording. Among the gravest or something similar, Holocaust and Palestine should be up there.

    Which is fucked, it's like generational violence but an entire people instead of a family

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  • [โ€“] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    It is four centuries of colonial violence, being kidnapped, stripped of your language, culture and humanity, tortured and raped and forced you and your descendants for hundreds of years to work to death just so that your owners could afford to not do anything productive. I can see how it's the gravest. If people are gonna use this as an excuse not to care for other crimes against humanity they're sadistic fools and should be called out as such.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    It's the sad reality of politics and agreements, simple wording can screw you over in ways you don't yet see. Id be very interested to see what difference among the gravest would make. I'd be very disappointed in Canada to abstain then. And curious if any supporters change their vote.

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  • [โ€“] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Always about money. It's a shame it draws attention away from the 50 million living people who exist in modern slavery today.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 2 points 7 months ago

    It's not about money, either. The USA doesn't give a fuck about international law. It's been like this at least from the WWII to date. They could have voted yes, and then keep giving three fucks about reparations. If anything, it does draw attention to modern slavery.

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    • [โ€“] 8 points 7 months ago

    Abstention might as well be an against vote

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    [โ€“] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    https://lemmygrad.ml/c/alwaysthesamemap

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    • [โ€“] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    trump tried to remove any references to slavery at a dc museum. I think court has an order demanding the return but im not 100% what was removed and if anything was returned.

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  • [โ€“] [S] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Pam Bondi is being impeached because they don't give a fuck about court orders.

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  • [โ€“] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    is she actually being impeached? I have heard it like impeaching trump but have not seen anything on it actually moving forward. Can she be now that she has been moved?

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