Technology

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[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 8 points 7 months ago (9 children)

What? ID?

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[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago (8 children)

They want developers to share their IDs to have their apps on the play store. The limited groups is so hobbyist developers can still share apps without having to jump through those hoops and so the users don't need to go and enable sideloading, with the caveat that there's a call on how many users you can send it to it looks like.

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[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

That's already the case. The new thing is that they want developers to share their ID to have their apps be installable on Android in the first place, even if they don't use the Play Store.

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[–] Arcadeep@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I wonder if this is a direct result of apps like ICE watch or ones that track billionaire planes and stuff

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[–] iSeth@lemmy.ml 1 point 7 months ago*

Google did just say they're "...leaning more into military contracts..." or something...

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[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

But the sideloading flow via dev options that they have revealed doesn't require that and it's easy to do...

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[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

From what angle is it easy to do?

Enable developer mode (using a hidden process where you have to know where to find it)
Go through a scary form
Restart the device
Wait 24 hours?!
Go to the settings again
Do some more scary confirmations
Check another scary checkbox
And then... confirm again every single time you install an app

And you are telling me it's easy to do? I can go publish a diet tracking app and Aunt Flo will happily go through this and I won't lose customers?

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[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

I feel like if someone knows what an .apk is and where to download them, they'll also know how to search for how to install them

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[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

Yeah, and currently you don't need to know what an apk is to install them.

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[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 7 months ago

Then you're just installing from the play store are you not? If you want to use f-droid or something else you initially have to start with getting their .apk do you not? Or am I mistaken and misremembering?

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[–] darkevilmac@lemmy.zip 131 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Okay but, installing an apk is not the kind of thing a scammer does. They'll just install some standard off the shelf remote access software from the play store

This very much feels like they just needed to come up with a new justification for this process and opted for scammers for some reason. Even though they're completely disconnected

[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 71 points 7 months ago (3 children)

This very much feels like they just needed to come up with a new justification for this process

It feels that way because that's exactly what happened.

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[–] darkevilmac@lemmy.zip 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I was hoping for at least something slightly believable, someone let Gemini write the justification I guess

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[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

They don't even respect us enough to bother with trying to make their lies convincing anymore.

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[–] darkevilmac@lemmy.zip 3 points 7 months ago

A man can dream

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[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 51 points 7 months ago

[–] kbal@fedia.io 48 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

Just think of all the other things that could benefit from a "protective waiting period" to enhance your safety.

Turning off location tracking, using a web browser other than Chrome, using a mail server other than Gmail, visiting duckduckgo.com — if Google really cared about your privacy and security they'd add a 24-hour delay to all these dangerous activities.

[–] zerofk@lemmy.zip 9 points 7 months ago

Downloading Linux? Mandatory psych evaluation. For your protection.

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[–] smeg@infosec.pub 86 points 7 months ago (13 children)

enable developer options
confirm that you are not tricked
restart phone and re-authenticate
wait one day
confirm with biometrics that you know what you are doing
decide if you only want unrestricted installs for 1 week or forever
confirm that you accept the risks
enjoy the few apps that still have developers motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Is this for all android systems because it is a huge rug pull if so

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[–] AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip 22 points 7 months ago

Pretty sure it's a change to AOSP, the basis for every single Android ROM in existence.

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 4 points 7 months ago

Combined with the news that they're going to start requiring developer age verification even in the alternate app repositories...

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[–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago

The biometrics part makes no sense, you can disable biometrics. You mean that you have to do a security confirmation however you've set it up.

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[+] FauxLiving@lemmy.world -11 points 7 months ago (8 children)

I can understand this workflow being created to protect the legions of people who are tricked into installing spyware.

It doesn't remotely affect me because I use GrapheneOS and if this is an issue for you then you're probably someone who should look at installing GOS or Lineage.

I don't think Google should be able to do this and it is likely part of a longer-term strategy to strangle any competition. At the same time, I can understand how this change will save a lot of grandparents from clicking a link in a text from their 'grandchildren' and installing spyware that'll steal all of their bank information.

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[–] AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

GrapheneOS is built on AOSP, which is where the change is being made. Graphene and other custom ROMs will need to maintain a fork that cuts out the feature if they want to avoid. Google is also starting to close off Android to make that more difficult, so it'll become a genuine project to maintain the fork well.

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[–] nomadpxl@programming.dev 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

As far as I understand the enforcement depends on privileged play services. https://xcancel.com/Metr0pl3x/status/1960329785277571420#m

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[–] AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip 4 points 7 months ago

That's better, at least. GrapheneOS users should be fine at least since there are extensive restrictions on Play. Other Android ROMs may have issues, though. Maybe not if they use MicroG.

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[–] fallaciousBasis@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I mean... This is kind of why I never let people use my phone.

I have installations from various sources enabled... Like my browser, because I know what I'm doing. But I wouldn't trust anyone as the process is currently effortless....

If someone is trying to install spyware on you (like a partner or parent.) this might offer some notification and prevention.

I don't really see the big deal. You do it once, enable it forever, and wipe up those tears.

I think a better way would just to have maybe like a biometric/pin confirmation upon installation. Simple. Clean.

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[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 4 points 7 months ago

they want to suppress the developers, not users. By making it so bothersome, so many people will just stop using sources from outside google play. First they do this and at some later time they will add more hoops to it. If they manage to strangle any developers that make stuff, people will have nowhere to turn yet they cant complain either because google will have undeniable monopoly.

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[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

The delay is almost assuredly to prevent live scamming. Like a grandparent picking up a random call or text and being tricked into thinking they're a family member/bank worker/etc.

I'll admit it's annoying, and could be used by Google later to do more annoying shit.

Taking their explanations in good faith and looking at it from an customer security point of view, I can see this cutting back on some common scam types. This is kind of like how, when you go to rustdesk.com there's a giant 'YOU'RE PROBABLY GETTING SCAMMED' banner across the top of the page:

These little steps can seems pointless or annoying to us, as most of us are probably in the upper range of tech skills, but consider the average user and it starts to make a lot more sense.

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[–] conorab@lemmy.conorab.com 1 point 7 months ago

The delay makes intuitive sense especially since it will give the target a chance to complain about it to their friends and family who will hopefully stop it from there.

However, I’m not sure if it’s worth it. I imagine this would stop exfiltration apps which scan the users device to useful data and maybe passive screenshots but this pales in comparison to apps with subscription dark patterns, gambling and apps that harvest and sell your data legally already. If this was a case of apps prompting the user to enter sensitive information into a form then they could just use a browser.

I don’t know. I think this is a good measure to prevent scams. I’m just uncomfortable about Google’s motivation.

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[+] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

[removed by mod]

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[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago*

e: nm, mod got 'em

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[–] shrek_is_love@lemmy.ml 41 points 7 months ago (1 child)

They think this will take some of the heat off of them. Hopefully no one actually thinks this is a reasonable compromise. If I want to help an elderly family member install something on their phone during Thanksgiving dinner or a family reunion, I'm not gonna want to wait a day. Uncle Paul's flying back to Florida tomorrow morning!

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 3 points 7 months ago

Thanksgiving was four months ago. Uncle Paul lives with you now.

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 71 points 7 months ago (32 children)

And again, confirming that my current phone will be the last android device I own.

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[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 26 points 7 months ago (31 children)

What will you use instead though?

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 58 points 7 months ago (15 children)

At this stage, I'm thinking one of the Motorola phones that will run Graphene out of the box.

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[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 38 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Isn't that Android?

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[–] riptide@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago

I believe it’s a fork of android that is not managed by Google

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 15 points 7 months ago (4 children)

It's an Android fork that has been degoogled

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[+] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world -8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

........so it's android.

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 38 points 7 months ago*

Is that meant to be a "gotcha" or something?

My point is, this is the last time I let google control my phone.

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[–] SanctimoniousApe@piefed.social 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I imagine since it's not an official product of Google's, it can't legally be called "Android." As such it's something that is not Android, but is highly compatible with it since both are rooted in the AOSP.

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[+] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world -11 points 7 months ago

Legally? Maybe not.

But Col Sanders left KFC after selling a business he created with his own secret reciepe. Then after he sold it, he watched the new owners use his image to sell an inferior chicken product.

So he started up another new chicken resteraunt using the original reciepe. Legally he couldn't call it KFC, but that doesn't change the fact that it was the original KFC reciepe.

Hows that phrase go? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.

Call things whatever word you want, it's still the same thing in the end.

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[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I use graphene on a pixel. Graphene is Android, albeit a much better version of Android.

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 10 points 7 months ago

I don't care whether it's technically android or not, I care that it's not a tool to let google in to my life.

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[–] Fetus@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I'm hoping it's smaller than any of their current offerings. I really want to support a "factory" GrapheneOS phone, but can't stand the size of current generation phones.

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[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 7 months ago

I want the opposite! I currently use a fold phone because phones are too small :P

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[–] real_squids@sopuli.xyz 1 point 7 months ago

Even sidegrading to an older mid-high range phone seems like a good idea at this point. I hate android 12 and everything after it with a passion. Moto have been decent in my experience though, hopefully HMD will follow suit with Graphene

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[–] merde@sh.itjust.works 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

any links for more info?

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https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/32656-motorola-partnership-announcement

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

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[–] merde@sh.itjust.works 1 point 7 months ago

March 2, 2026 https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at-mwc-2026/

That's some good news indeed.

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[–] tabular@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Linux phone, landline, or tin can and string.

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[–] toiletobserver@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Another option, an ESP32 radio. Surprisingly large mesh network in the greater Seattle area.

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[+] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world -6 points 7 months ago

Yeah, but you guys don't have any ghosts in your city! So.....Who ya gonna call???

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[–] Bullerfar@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago (11 children)

Fairphone with /e/os or Jolla phone with sailfishos (waiting for the reviews of their new preordered flagship phone coming out this fall.)

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[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago (10 children)

Well, that runs into a different problem with the same results.

Sure, GOOGLE can't hinder you from installing apps, but the fact that nobody has heard of these OS's before means your selection of available apps is what hinders your ability to install apps.

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[–] Zak@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

/e/os is Android without Google proprietary stuff. It runs most Android apps.

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[–] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

While technically correct, it runs apps, it's misleading because it won't run the majority of apps from the playstore.

Google holds people captive with the playstore and the very sneaky google play services.

Only the most hardcore tinkerers and privacy oriented would run a pure AOSP phone.

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[–] Teknikal@anarchist.nexus 2 points 7 months ago*

These devices have replaced play services with things like micro g, so yes they will run pretty much any android app even Google ones would work but that would be defeating the purpose.

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[–] Zak@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I've tried it, and only ran into a couple apps that wouldn't work with MicroG. I won't pretend it's painless, but it's workable for someone with sufficient motivation.

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[–] illi@piefed.social 5 points 7 months ago

/e/ OS is just a degoogled Android (similar to Graphene, but not so security oriented). You can install the same apps - though some might not work properly.

Sailfish OS is Linux, but if I understand it correctly they have a compatibility layer enabling you to seamlessly install Android apps on it.

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[–] Bullerfar@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

"Nobody has Heard of these os'" - wtf you talk about? They are gaining popularity here in EU as well as in Turkey. It's getting popular to de-google/de-americanize. People are hating on the monopoly iOS and Android has on the industry. Better to do something than being a sheep about it, and just let thos mofos suck the data out of your life forever?

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[–] SanctimoniousApe@piefed.social 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

You != Everybody.

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[–] halcyoncmdr@piefed.social 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

That exact issue killed Blackberry, the largest smartphone maker at the time. Even after they built a compatibility layer to run Android apps.

You think anywhere near enough people are going to go out of their way to try something that doesn't have marketshare already to maintain an entire alternative hardware and software ecosystem? Where can I get wherever awesome shit you're smoking?

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[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago

When i was a kid, blackberries were more common than android. At least in my area it was the "in" thing to be on BBM

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[–] Arcadeep@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago*

e/os and Sailfish are pretty popular alternative OSs (OSes? OSii?) and e/os is an android fork, with Sailfish having an android compatibility layer, so they work with standard Android apps.

Source: I use e/os.

Why are you in here arguing losing points with no reason or even knowledge about them?

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[–] Fedditor385@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Can we prevent this on the EU level? It really is just killing independent competition.

[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Vote for the Pirates

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[–] Fedditor385@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

According to Wikipedia, they basically have no representative nowhere... I would rather vote for a more established party which actually has the power do influence the decision. Surely there must be one mainstream party that has the same stance.

https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust-and-cartels/contact_en

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[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 4 points 7 months ago*

There are some places one can contact:

Email Digital Markets Act team: EC-DMA@ec.europa.eu

Contact DMA team: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/contact-dma-team_en ↗

Contact your Member of the European Parliament directly: https://zeyus.com/contact-mep-representative ↗

Email Antitrust: COMP-GREFFE-ANTITRUST@ec.europa.eu

https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust-and-cartels/contact_en

I tried sending a message to one one, i forget which, and they essentially replied that they see nothing wrong with it, so more people need to complain.

https://keepandroidopen.org/ More infromation from here.

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[–] gary_d@lemmy.world 41 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I imagine that the demand for linux phones will only grow.

[–] QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

THE PENGUINS MUST GROW

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[–] kalapala@sopuli.xyz 16 points 7 months ago

Rental devices tend to be bad investments for the individuals.

[–] Yaky@slrpnk.net 24 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Who are these smooth-talking scammers that can guide a regular-ass user to jump through hoops in settings to install a malicious app?

Maybe I should ask them how they do it, because I cannot convince my family to download and use Signal. You know, the legit app from the official app store.

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[–] goldman60@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

People who can't operate a computer will somehow become gods at following instructions if someone calls "from Microsoft"

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[–] d00ery@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

Yes exactly this. I try and explain a computer thing to someone and get ignored. That same person talks to some sales rep in the electronics store and comes away "ohh they said I need to buy super expensive antivirus, that'll solve my issue with my screen resolution being too low". 🤦

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[–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 4 points 7 months ago

You mean from 'The Microsoft'

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[–] sveltecider@lemmy.ca 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

Who are these smooth-talking scammers that can guide a regular-ass user to jump through hoops in settings to install a malicious app?

you would be extremely surprised. I think lemmy users fail to realize that not everyone has an IT job and is a sys admin.

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[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 11 points 7 months ago (6 children)

This would not have affected me since I use Lineage OS without Google Play Services, but I am now more seriously than ever looking into using a Linux phone like Postmarket OS.

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[–] fluxx@mander.xyz 15 points 7 months ago

It would affect a lot of users, then it will indirectly affect you too, as a lot of devs won't be as interested in maintaining their apps for so few users. But I hope it will at least give a bit of a push to developing postmarket os. I personally am sure going to get a second hand phone to install postmarketos too and hope I can contribute at least a little bit. I am prepared to suffer, at least a little bit for the right cause.

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Camera
Phone projection for cars
Contactless pay/ wallet/pay alternative

Give me a device that can do these and I am in for ditching android. I only use browsers or off store apps that have linux support mainly anymore anyway.

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[–] fluxx@mander.xyz 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

At least the last one won't happen, as banks would have to be on board. And banks are not on your side with this one.

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

To be honest this one is in hand, curve has an alternative product and a lot of banks across EU have nativr NFC. My country does not have those banks though. I hope revolut bring it in.

I do want something that takes me tickets for shows and flights and membership cards too though

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[–] fluxx@mander.xyz 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

Yeah, im in a similar situation. Curve doesn't work in my country and banks don't have their own solution. And google pay won't work on my grapheneos pixel.

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago

I got a pixel for graphene but had to go back for android auto and payments. The camera was lacking compared to pixelOS but that was fixable.

Sucks to be with google more than ever

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[–] TotalCourage007@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

I'm just going to eradicate Google once SteamOS supports mobile devices. Fucking control freak douchebags.

[–] MasterNerd@lemmy.zip 6 points 7 months ago

Bruh what? You're gonna be waiting a long time for that. Better to use one of the pre-existing alternatives than wait for an OS that probably won't ever exist, and probably won't support your hardware if it ever does.

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[–] tidderuuf@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

I hate how much more difficult my work or life has to be because some people shouldn't have a smartphone.

[–] MountainMan@lemmy.zip 13 points 7 months ago

They will just redefine what 24h means!

Don't think for a second that these companies are working in good faith, and would change their evil plans due to some pushback from the rabble. They will just find ways to circumvent things. They have everyone by the nads, there are no competitors.

[–] xSikes@feddit.online 6 points 7 months ago

spoiler

___either going back to cell phones or we all go for Linux phones

[–] achille225@jlai.lu 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

How will this be accepted by the EU? Will it comply to the regulations?