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[–] 69 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

Man, imagine being in a financial situation where you could afford to turn down a job just because of if the OS you'd be using

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Imagine applying for a job as a backend engineer and not knowing, based on the job posting/qualifications needed that they were a Windows shop.

    Or just imagine generating this fake Gmail in Gemini or ChatGPT and posting it to farm the rage.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago*

    I applied to a (among other techs) nodejs position for a finance company. I asked 5 times in all interviews if it's ok to run linux, just to make sure.

    they said yes, and after signing the contract, I was send the instructions via email and company laptop was shipping. In the instructions, I was supposed to work through some remote desktop on a windows machine. fuck me

    I instantly resigned, one day before starting.I refused the parcel so it went back to the mothership without me even touching the box

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  • [–] 51 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    God you must make a ton of money

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Probably yeah. Ive done the same and said no to jobs where I couldnt use Linux. I didnt even want mac at that time, because 70% of the fun of the job was using Linux and native tools there.

    Its not really strange. We are using our computers to do our job and we think its fun, so being forced to use a different platform ruins a lot of the fun.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    I hate windows as much as the next lemmy user, but turning down a well paying job because I don't want to use the OS 99+% of businesses use, means you must be at a level of stability I cannot even fathom.

    And not you, but OP was kind of a dick calling IT lazy. As someone go works in IT myself, a lot of departments these days are woefully understaffed. We're not going to support any extra software, causing us to work more overtime hours, because one douche is throwing a hissyfit

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Yeah the agreement for me was always that i wont need any support from the company for my Linux, and I never did.

    If you know Linux, it will just work. I had to use the web version of office and teams sometimes, but that worked ok during meetings.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I can't imagine saying this to normies at my work. They'd look at me like I had 3 eyes.

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  • [+] 46 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I've worked professionally on Windows and Mac; using Visual Basic, C#, Java, Objective-C and Qt Creator (which is C++ and Javascript); for web apps, desktop applications, and mobile apps (iOS, Blackberry and Android). I have my personal preferences but they're all viable platforms/languages/frameworks/devices and anything that needs doing can be done on them one way or another. The idea that one of these is vastly and objectively superior to all others is just pseudo-religious nonsense.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The idea that one of these is vastly and objectively superior to all others is just pseudo-religious nonsense.

    You can get a job and make a living in just about any country. But the quality of life differences and how comfortable of a living you can make are gonna be vastly different.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Windows with WSL is honestly a pretty decent Linux.

    That said, the aggressive AI, advertising, and telemetry baked into the OS over the last few years is awful. Hopefully it's possible for IT teams to mass-opt-out from those "features" via corporate fleet management; if not, that may genuinely be a good reason for companies to migrate off of Windows.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    There are ways for normal home users to bodily rip this shit out, but it takes some work and technical knowledge to effectively rip-and-tear in ways that work for you.

    Some of the tools are also not the most user-friendly, expect the user to be a power user with deep familiarity with Windows, and have non-obvious workflows that may confuse a majority of average users.

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  • [–] 240 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Does anyone actually believe this post??? Because it reads like upvote farming.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Wait a minute, you're telling me a post on programming_humor might be a meme?!?!?!?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Memes are fine.

    But this is straight up propaganda trying to disguise itself as a joke.

    If I'd even encounter a dev like the one from the post. I'd laugh in his face and wish him good luck on finding a job that caters to their niche needs.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Meanwhile, I'd be "welcome to the team, you'd do fine here".

    Don't get the white-knighting for Windows of all things. If you need Windows, ok, but that doesn't mean everyone needs windows.

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago

    Fucking based.

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago

    I don't have the luxury of turning down jobs for windows, but I do draw the line at using it on my own systems. They want me to use it, they have to provide the hardware.

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  • [–] 160 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    They say while using gmail.

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  • [–] 79 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Gmail is functional at what it sets out to do, which is send and receive email.

    The sender is not expressing privacy concerns, they’re expressing functionality / utility concerns.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Fair enough, still seems silly as hell to me. Windows is perfectly functional for corporate, and even software development use as long as the team managing the image and standard settings at your workplace is competent.

    Yeah, being able to customize everything to meet your preferred workflow etc with Linux is preferable.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Gmail is functional at what it sets out to do

    it is not. it can't even do such simple thing as sorting the inbox by the sender's name. it may seem functional to people who never used real mail client and were brainwashed into accepting this as the only available ui, but it is really not.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I still use gmail as my spam catcher/throwaway account

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Odd to use it as part of job hunting though, which is the context in this image.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    not really... when job hunting most people have to spam the world with CVs and nowadays that also includes registering in a ton of shitty services so you can post your resume or get contact info... once hired, you would use the company's email so whatever you provided first is usually irrelevant

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Sure, but kind of silly for someone who would take a stand against MS to the point of refusing a job to be happy with Google.

    Then again, they also expressed they'd be happy with Apple/Mac

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago

    Completely fair

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Sorry for the potato resolution

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  • I use WSL at work, I pin max RAM and only leave one CPU running for the host OS. It's still a nightmare. This upcoming week I'm finally deploying Redhat IDM so that myself and others can use their smartcards and the ancient AD infra to get linux workstations and jumpboxes. Microsoft did me a massive favor by raising our licensing pricing so now it's cheaper to replace Azure AD.

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  • [–] 293 points 7 months ago (36 children)

    99% companies have been using Windows for the past 30 years. I would gladly accept any job using Windows, even more if they paid well. I hate Windows way more than everyone else, but being unemployed is worse nowadays.

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  • [–] 197 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    You assume they don't already have a job and we're just looking for other opportunities. Not everyone is unemployed before they apply for other jobs. If anything that is a good time to look as it gives you stronger position to negotiate from.

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  • [+] -9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (11 children)

    In the overwhelming majority of situations you cannot begin the onboarding process with IT while still working for a previous employer. Especially at this level of software engineering that would run afoul of moonlighting policies.

    is what your describing technically possible? sure. Is it even remotely probable? Absolutely not.


    EDIT: I am absolutely flabbergasted at how many people don't know their rights.

    In the US this is covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is extremely simple when defining what is considered on-the-job work. If it is mandatory, work-related, and for the benefit of the company, then it is on-the-job work and you should be paid for the time.

    Stop perpetuating wage theft, people. It's the #1 form of theft in the US by a wide margin. Learn your rights and demand pay for your work.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If you begin the onboarding process as a senior backend engineer without inquiring as to what your working environment will be, then you're just incompetent.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    If you're talking to the IT department about workstation configuration without signing a contract and getting paid for it, you're being taken advantage of.

    Yes, it's reasonable, and smart, to ask people during the interview process about their tech stack. But there is no way I'm coordinating with IT on the setup and configuration of my workstation without a contract in place or before my start date.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    You are right. You cannot onboard a new job before you leave your old one. Accepting an offer is not part of the onboarding process though. It happens before.

    After an interview process the company makes an offer. The candidate can then accept or reject it. But that is really all informal. You can then negotiate with them for an official start date and contract. You just need to ensure you can hand in your notice and work the rest of your notice period before the start date of your new contract.

    I don't know anyone that would hand in their notice before accepting the initial offer of a company. At least here in the UK.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Communicating with IT is absolutely part of the onboarding process. And the phrasing of the email clearly states they are rescinding an offer acceptance, as in they had already accepted and begun onboarding.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You are not considered to be working somewhere until you have signed a contract and after the start date on that contract. Accepting a offer is not signing a contract. You are not working at the new place yet. You have no obligations to do anything at that point. You just need to have stopped working at your current employment before your start date. You definitely do not need to quit before accepting the offer. No where I have worked requires that.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I didn't say you had to quit before accepting the offer. I said that the onboarding process itself is considered part of employment. If you're talking to IT about setting up your workstation and not getting paid for it I feel bad that you're being taken advantage of

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Is this some usa user who haven't heard about other countries? (and I doubt it's even true in the usa).

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Not only is this definitely true in the US but I know it's true in other countries like the UK and Japan as well.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Dawg put down the crack pipe you're the only one who is asserting this.

    Definitely NOT true in US, or UK. Didn't work IT when I was in Japan so can't say for that one, but likely not true there either.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    EDIT: In the US this is covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is extremely simple when defining what is considered on-the-job work. If it is mandatory, work-related, and for the benefit of the company, then it is on-the-job work and you should be paid for the time. So congratulations; you've likely participated in wage theft by onboarding people who aren't being paid for their time. Obviously it wasn't knowingly or with intent, but that doesn't change the fact that, based on your response, your employers have had you or your coworkers participate in failing to pay people what they are owed.


    Except for the other reply that starts "you are right. you cannot onboard a new job before you leave your old one"??? They may go on to say that accepting an offer isn't onboarding but since I never tried to argue that it was, that's kind of irrelevant.

    Lots of people don't know their rights or their obligations. Wage theft is the #1 from of theft in the US by a lot. Coordinating with an IT department for onboarding without getting paid for it is straight up wage theft and being taken advantage of. Doing so while still employed by another company is moonlighting under most contracts.

    People do shit like that all the time. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it safe.

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  • [–] 94 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Senior backend engineering definitely doesn’t see 99% windows adoption rate.

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  • [+] -27 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah but a senior engineer would just use an old personal linux laptop from home, they wouldn't even bother bitching about the employer issued machine.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Never, ever, EVER use your personal equipment for work.

    There are a ton of legal reasons for that, not just around who owns the Copyright of work done on that machine as well as licensing of the software running in it (most commercial software has different licensing conditions for personal and commercial use) but also because if there's some kind of legal case against that company your equipment might very well be confiscated as part of an investigation.

    Also, more in general, if you have personal practices which are legally dubious or often frowned upon (piracy, porn) you don't do it in the same machine where you're doing your professional work, definitelly not on a work machine but even in your own machine it's risky (see the point above about how your machine might end up confiscated and examined by the authorities if the company is investigated). The principle of "you don't shit were you eat" applies here.

    Even for your own company, it's best to have the company stuff separate from personal stuff.

    Beyond that, it's also a very good idea in terms of having a good work-life balance to separate the personal from the professional: ideally you keep a very strong separation between work and not-work, at all levels, from work time and outside-work time to work/personal machine and work/personal phone - it helps make clear both for yourself and, even more importantly, others, that there is no work outside work, which reduces the chances of management doing things like call you on weekends or evenings with questions and makes it easier for them to accept when they try it and you say "I'm not at work now, so I'll pick this up first thing when I'm back at work" - the cleaner and harder the split the less room there is for the "barely in control, almost 100% reactive" kind of manager to sneak work stuff into your personal-time.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Clients will have intellectual rights on anything produced for them. Removal of that data from their systems and storing it elsewhere will be a violation.

    Using your own equipment other than maybe your monitor, mouse, or keyboard will be a no go. I don't know of any serious workplace that would let you do otherwise.

    Even if you are a self employed contractor you will need to remote in to their virtual environment and work in that.

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  • [+] -30 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    I haven't found a company that enforces windows of everyone. Seems ridiculous. I would sign the contract then simply require a Mac because I don't know how to use Windows. IT be dammed.

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  • [–] 49 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Smaller companies, maybe. But bigger companies will have a 'Security and Compliance' department which will force everyone to use a company-supported platform. It goes beyond OS too. Unapproved apps, even if you are allowed to install them, may not connect to company resources.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Managing centralized security and device management correctly on multiple OSes must be a nightmare. From EDRs to app and device provisioning.

    You should do dev work in devcontainers anyway.

    Not that it's an excuse or that I'm happy with that, but I can totally understand why companies do that, and tbh I'd rather see a properly secured than have the option to run Linux.

    But I'm biased, because I used to do Red Teamings, and the things I've seen...

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    You should do dev work in devcontainers anyway.

    Devcontainers work for Visual Studio Code when developers are more than happy to click their way through running builds and debugging problems. But, as someone whose workflow is optimized for the command-line, they can fuck off.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    for a senior engineer position though? That seems counterproductive. I would expect it of one of the entry levels or non-it but forcing a windows ecosystem on a development or engineering sector screams red flag to me.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    A senior engineer obviously needs (and knows how to handle) considerably more access to their workstation and company IT infrastructure than the average employee. On the other hand, I've occasionally read complaints from IT security types about engineers being way too eager to install sketchy stuff.

    There's some truth to those complaints. I might need to try out several libraries and tools to see what works best for a certain use case. Is that new one with 15 stars on Github actually safe? Are all of its dependencies? How many developers perform a task like that in a sandbox? How many of those perform a thorough audit before taking it out of the sandbox?

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I recently quit a company that does. They hid that until after I accepted and started. I quit out of frustration after a couple weeks of having to listen the the fan all day due to their surveillance and telemetry running. They even disabled sleep mode, so you either had to leave that thing phoning home 24/7, or forcibly shut down every day. 10 minute boot time on a brand new laptop.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Can you explain this disabling sleep mode thing? What does having the thing awake while it's closed even accomplish?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Clamshell mode. External monitor, lid closed. My issue was that I could not tell it to sleep when not in use, because their IT disabled sleep to ensure their corporate spyware was always running.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    That's the part I get, but what does having the corporate spyware running 24/7 accomplish? What kind of telemetry would they even get out of that other than ip/location, which isn't all that interesting.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    It can check if people are typing or using the mouse.

    It's also possible to use the camera of a notebook to track if a person is present and looking at the screen or not.

    Any company using that shit is the kind that uses "bums of seats" rather than actual deliverables as a measure of performance, which means they're also the kind of place were unpaid overtime is the norm and, if in dev, things like projects often ending up in a death march stage - such places are stupidly inneficient and badly managed with a disfunctional work culture.

    Avoid such companies like the plague - you'll be luck if the worst that happens is insane work hours.

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  • [–] 41 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    While it takes about 8-16 hours of concerted effort, there are ways to castrate Windows into a mild approximation of what it was before.

    The big question mark is Windows 12… and whether AI and spyware/malware features such as Recall will be baked into core functionality such that it will be impossible to remove or reliably deactivate.

    I’m still with Windows for now, owing to requirements that have no non-Windows alternative (which include supporting and actually opening client data files for the desktop version of Quicken, for example), but I do foresee a time when I would reliably extract my last foot out of the Windows ecosystem.

    Thankfully, their server products still appear to be enshittification-free. For now.

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  • [–] 33 points 7 months ago*

    Honestly, yeah, I'd do the same. After several past jobs required Linux, even downgrading to a Mac feels pretty bad. Can't imagine Macroslop Wangblows.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Google products are acceptible though? 🤨

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