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[+] [S] 88 points 8 months ago (97 children)
  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Buy the game, play for 10 minutes, leave a negative review citing the performance issues and then refund it.

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  • [+] -111 points 8 months ago (90 children)

    So you blame the developer and not the pirates for this?

    This is the equivalent of trumpers crying about “illegal” immigrants and not the people that hire them.

    Go ahead and boycott the game over this. I’m sure the amount of money they’re making from all the would-be pirates now having to actually pay for a change will more than make up for it.

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago* (35 children)

    Show me the data that proves piracy actually causes a tangible loss for the developer for DRM to actually be needed.

    (hint: it doesn't exist. It instead shows most pirates weren't going to buy the thing anyway, so they don't make any more money by adding garbage like Denuvo)

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago

    The only way to do this accurately would require the same game to release twice on two planet Earths. It gets harder when pirates are not the types to offer up their purchase data honestly and willingly, for somewhat expectable reasons.

    BUT, the closest we got is an old version of FIFA (we’ll assume it was FIFA. This is an old article, and unfortunately I’m only recalling details from memory until I can locate a very old bookmark) Those games sell each year, generally just to update the roster. You’ll see many college dorms where people just stack up each year’s edition they bought because that trend doesn’t change. In the year that the publisher added Denuvo encryption, the PC sales jumped significantly. The only reasonable explanation most analysts could come to is that many PC gamers found they couldn’t pirate the game, and bought it.

    It’s not perfect data, not least because I don’t have a link right now. The other murky point is that the people who need to be convinced are not gamers, but publishers. Whatever arguments we make in forums, Denuvo makes its own arguments to them behind closed doors. So far, their arguments have been convincing, enough for publishers to burn money on licenses, and it may be because they have some very valuable, and non-public, figures that make the case. The games industry is not always obligated to release full numbers to its fanbase.

    I’m not trying to suggest anyone should shut up and accept Denuvo, I think a lot of the frustration is valid. But I do think it can be more nuanced than you reali3z

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  • [+] -32 points 8 months ago (33 children)

    Lmao…. Show you the data that would otherwise be impossible to show you?

    There is no tangible way to prove who would or wouldn’t buy a thing if the parameters were different other than polling them.

    And how exactly do you think polling dishonest people will turn out?

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (32 children)

    Why is pirating inherently dishonest in your opinion?

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  • [+] -12 points 8 months ago (31 children)

    That question is too stupid to bother answering.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Shame. It's a more nuanced discussion than you seem to believe.

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    You think game developers don’t deserve to be paid for their work.

    There is no nuance in this argument, therefore there’s no merit in debating it.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    You think game developers don’t deserve to be paid for their work.

    I literally do not think that though. This is that nuance I was talking about that you're afraid to engage with. Not everybody pirates games and then never buys them.

    I'm very tight on money and cannot buy every game I'm interested in. So I pirate games and treat them as demos. If I dislike the game, I stop playing it, and no harm is done since I would have either never bought it or refunded it regardless. If I like the game, I'll buy it at the first opportunity.

    Esoteric Ebb is the most recent example of that, I played it for a few hours and it immediately jumped to the #2 spot on my wishlist. I haven't bought it yet, but I plan to soon. It's also recently happened with Schedule I, and this one I actually got. Me pirating the game has literally earned them a sale they otherwise would not have gotten.

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You know, I had a bunch of screenshots ready of me talking to a friend about pirating the game on discord, talking about my thoughts on the game after doing so, and then screenshots of me getting the game on steam the very next day. But this is already way too much effort put into a discussion with somebody as unserious as you. So I'm going to respect my own privacy and just not do that. Have fun living your life without nuance I guess.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (21 children)

    Since we all know your actual thought without even being told: Making a copy is not theft.

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  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (20 children)

    It is. But I’m not going to argue with you about it.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (19 children)

    I'm not going to argue with you about it

    Yeah... Because you don't have a leg to stand on. 🙄

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  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (18 children)

    Naah. It’s because I said my peace and don’t care to bicker with debate-bros that defend devaluing IP because they can’t run it on their shitty decades old PC.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (16 children)

    Then why the fuck do you keep running your mouth?

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  • [+] [S] 4 points 8 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Denuvo has been caught astroturfing on social media before. It wouldn't surprise me if they actually were being paid.

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    Seems lemmy is nothing more than people accusing and being accused of whatever the person feels hurts the discussion the most.

    Disagree with a Tankie? You’re a Trump supporter.

    Suggest people vote for whoever can best a fascist? You’re a genocide supporter!

    Think a developer should get paid for their work? You’re a shill for denuvo.

    If there was a legitimate argument here it’s lost in all the accusations. And if I can be accused of things, it should be fair for me to do the same. Anyone winning about anti-crack software are would-be pirates that only prove that it’s a necessary evil.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I thought you said you were done. Why you still here? Working overtime?

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I happen to think it’s fucking hilarious that you all blame the developer instead of the fucking pirates that crack the game.

    And I’ve only spend the past 24 hours “arguing” this because so many of you got butt-hurt that I disagree with you and blew me up.

    Should I have just not responded? Is no one allowed to disagree?

    Oh wait! I’m a paid shill. Right. Because I fucking hate losers that pirate shit. Gotcha. Yeah. Fuck me for being responsible and believing I that hard work should be rewarded.

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  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    I’m typing words. Haven’t said a thing. And I’m done with this. You clearly want to argue and I’m not about that. There are people here like to report me for disagreeing with them, so I’m out.

    Maybe chill out a bit and accept that some people might disagree with you.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    I’m typing words. Haven’t said a thing. And I’m done with this. You clearly want to argue and I’m not about that.

    Maybe chill out a bit and accept that some people might disagree with you.

    Lol

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago* (6 children)

    Denuvo adds an obscene amount of checks to the executable, which manifests as an increased CPU load (compare Assassin's Creed Origins with and without it) and poorer performance. It also restricts the game's availability to legitimate paying customers if there's any issue with the "is this a new installation" detector.

    Would-be pirates were never going to pay for it.

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  • [+] -25 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Would be pirates are never going to pay for it

    No loss.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    You... either completely missed or completely ignored the point. The point being that, in order to attack the pirates who wouldn't have bought the game anyway, regular paying users are getting screwed over by a significant performance hit.

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  • [+] -9 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Again, ten years ago this would be a true statement. Today, your system must be pretty shitty to be hit with performance issues.

    The only people complaining about this are people who would have pirated it but now can’t.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Denvuo can cause issues for Linux users trying to switch proton versions. Denuvo is also terrible for game preservation. It's not just pirates that are affected negatively.

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  • [–] 23 points 8 months ago (11 children)
  • [+] -29 points 8 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    My first Final Fantasy game was a rom a friend all but insisted I play. Before that the idea of random encounters and turned-based combat were a huge turnoff to me, and I had no interest in buying it. Since then I’ve purchased a copy of nearly every game in the series, some more than once for different platforms. Same story for the Trails games and some others.

    That’s a lot of money those companies would never had received if it weren’t for just a little bit of piracy to make a fan out of someone.

    Typically the people I know who pirate because they want to play without paying are doing so because they don’t have the money. As mentioned countless times before, they would not have bought the game otherwise because they probably couldn’t afford it in the first place. Denuvo may (or may not, I don’t actually know) block pirates, but it doesn’t ensure the publisher is making any more money. It does however ensure that regular paying folks get a worse product. I think people have the right to be upset about that. They could just use a different DRM.

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  • [+] -9 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Okay just ignore the personal anecdote on how a little bit of piracy actually helped create a long-time paying customer of multiple franchises, I guess.

    (gollumnotlistening.gif)

    But furthermore…

    When Denuvo survives for at least 12 weeks, piracy leads to nearly zero total revenue loss on average. The results suggest that Denuvo does protect legitimate sales to an estimated mean of 15 percent of total revenue and median of 20 percent, but there is little justification to employ Denuvo long-term (i.e. for more than three months), especially given that Denuvo can have negative technical side effects and is generally disliked by users.

    The study itself, linked in the article, states that Denuvo is effective at protecting sales for only about 12 weeks, then it does more long-term harm than good.

    If that’s the case, I wonder how much Denuvo suppresses sales of a game over its lifetime once those 12 weeks are over?

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago

    Dude… the only people complaining about denuvo are people that would have pirated the game. There are tons of articles that illustrate the performance hit is barely noticeable. There’s even benchmarks that have been done to prove the negligible loss.

    It’s a non-issue. It’s just would-be pirates on a crusade because they can’t play a game for free. This is a stale argument.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    What an argument to credible sources disproving you wrong. Trump supporter logic.

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  • [+] -11 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    LMAO! Trump supporter logic is getting mad at the result of the problem and not the problem. Keyword: “they’re taking our jobs!”

    And piracy actually hurts game developers:

    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/10/the-true-cost-of-game-piracy-20-percent-of-revenue-according-to-a-new-study/

    But don’t let this get in the way of a good ol’ fashion outrage. 😂

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

    Some of that does sound like Trump supporter logic though. Sounds like a lot of negativity when you talk w people too.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    No no, Rheori has told people that anyone who disagrees with him is actually a Tankie/Trump supporter/Pirate.

    And I'm sure you'll be on his list of enemies too for calling him out. No one is allowed to question him. Only liars do that.

    If one person you meet smells like dogshit, that person probably smells like dogshit. If everyone you meet smells like dogshit, check your shoes.

    And Rhoeri would say everyone else is dogshit, and his shoes don't need cleaned.

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  • [–] 39 points 8 months ago (15 children)

    Go back to the Steam forums where you belong, bootlicker.

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  • [+] -37 points 8 months ago* (14 children)

    Person disagrees with your opinion:

    You: “bOoTliCkEr!”

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (13 children)

    Except when people provide you with evidence and reasoning you just go "lmao" and leave it at that too.

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  • [+] -30 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    I laugh at shit I find funny. If that makes someone a bootlicker, I hope for your sake that you have no sense of humor whatsoever.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    Sure, just don't pretend you're engaging in logical discussion.

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  • [+] -20 points 8 months ago* (10 children)

    It’s completely logical to me. A thing can be two things. Maybe look up something called “nuance”.

    Laughing about people crying because of an anti-piracy feature instead of being pissed at the pirates- then going so far as to say “well, they weren’t going to buy anyway!” as an argument against using it is fucking hilarious to me.

    This doesn’t mean I have nothing to say about it. Nor does it make my stance in bad faith. I just think your argument is ridiculous, and therefore I laughed at it.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago* (9 children)

    Logic is objective, so saying it's logical "to you" is illogical.

    A sense of humour is irrelevant to a discussion from a logical standpoint. Furthermore, we literally have data and studies that show that piracy doesn't hurt the sales of games— when provided with this evidence in the comments, you just "laughed" at it.

    You ask for reasoning/evidence, and when provided, just laugh at it. Laughter doesn't dismiss evidence.

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  • [+] -21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (8 children)

    I laughed at the argument that “piracy doesn’t hurt the sales of games- THEREFORE it should be allowed”.

    It’s not about hurting the sales of the games, which it does- they weren’t going to buy it anyway is a shit argument. And for those that PAY for it, it’s a slap in the face. I should get to play it for free too, right?

    Where do you draw the line?

    All game should be free! Developers don’t need paychecks! It’s a service to the people!

    LMAO!

    And read THIS

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    The consensus isn't a dislike of DRM in general but a special hatred of Denuvo. Denuvo is especially bad because of how much a performance hog it is. The idea that it's protection will be circumvented eventually but the people who bought copies will have worse performance is the frustrating part. Additionally, Linux users who change their proton version can be slapped with lock outs(usually temp) on games they purchased with no recourse.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    It doesn't hurt the sales of the games, that's an unscientific assertion you are asserting that directly contradicts research.

    If you want to play it for free, nobody's stopping you from pirating it too. It seems like resentment here rather than logical rigour in your argument. It's not a slap in the face for gamers who want to support the developers. If you don't, there's no reason why you should be obligated to purchase the game.

    Games are made and developed for-profit, they only continue production if they are profitable. They've remained profitable despite piracy forever.

    This has nothing to do with the argument that all games should be free or that developers don't need paychecks. It's an entirely different set of claims which nobody is making here.

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  • [+] -9 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Let's look at one study and ignore the consensus of studies, right?

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  • [+] -9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The only people complaining about this are people who would have pirated it but now can’t.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    The developers have a lot of choices in their approach to piracy and they chose a company that makes performance killing restraints that runs concurrent to the software causing poor performance. The game could be fun and run well but it is saddled by the poor business choices of the developer.

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  • [+] [S] 10 points 8 months ago (16 children)
  • [+] -23 points 8 months ago* (15 children)

    They’re not. And now they don’t get to play it for free either.

    Win-win.

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  • [+] [S] 12 points 8 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

    You made great points!

    @rhoeri@lemmy.world 's entire post history seems to be comments arguing w people. His comment history is a wild ride. I have no idea what it would be like to be that angry and negative all day.

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

    I’m not allowed to argue with you here or I’ll get banned, but do go ahead and bad faith your way through the entirety of the ToS agreement.

    I’m well aware of who moderates this comm as well as the bias in .world. So enjoy the freedoms that comes with preaching bullshit to the pasture- unfettered.

    I won’t apologize for having a different opinion, despite the all angry kids that it outrages downvotes. A different opinion is no reason to remain silent.

    Enjoy the hive.

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Just accept that your argumentative style and habit of putting people down are unwelcome here. So much of your post history is of you complaining. You're being negative and toxic to the Lemmy community. Look at all your downvotes in this thread.

    Your mod history doesn't paint a pretty picture! lol Doesn't that tell you something about what people on Lemmy think of you and the way you talk to people? You need to take a break from Lemmy or something. You this angry in your real life? Ick.

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    You’re saying I have “put people down”….

    LMAO!

    I guess we’ll ignore the personal attacks you have made toward me. Shit that I would have gotten banned for by the way. There’s a very well known bias here bud. You don’t see it because you’re part of it. And a moderator that has biases as well. None of any of the shit that violates the rules against me will be removed, because I know how it works.

    and my mod history only proves how the unpopular opinion isn’t welcome on lemmy. I’m not here to make friends and get karma. Oftentimes, I simply don’t agree with popular opinion. Should I not speak my mind?

    Additionally, If we’re here in bad faith, I’d have deleted my comments long ago. I have the strength of conviction to stick to my opinion for better or worse. I don’t care that it’s unpopular. I don’t care that it’s downvoted and disliked. I feel the way I do because that how I see the situation. And my opinion is that the entire thing is blown out of proportion by those that would be denied access by the very thing they whine about.

    Benchmarks have been made and published that show negligible harm in performance. But you all side-step that shit and got upset because I disagreed with you. And on top of that, you all are the ones that lost your shit. Maybe reread the discussion. And leave your bias at the door. It might read differently. I was I insulted by nearly every one of you.

    Simply for disagreeing.

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  • [+] -22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

    Pirates weren’t going to buy anyway, so therefore just let them pirate the game.

    Thats your argument?

    So that’s a slap in the face of paying customers. Why not just make the game fee for everyone then? If stupid “what if’s” are allowed.

    And I’m not contradicting shit. You’re crying about a protection the developer put in place to stop people from PLAYING THE GAME FOR FREE. And not crying about the people that caused them to have to do it.

    Fucking laughable.

    Oh, and read this:

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  • [+] [S] 11 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [+] -16 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    For denuvo to adversely effect your gameplay, you need to be running some seriously outdated hardware. It sucked the life out of AC Origins, sure…. Almost ten years ago….

    It’s basically a non-issue now.

    The only people crying about it now are would-be pirates that never planned to buy it in the first place. They are people pretending to be on a crusade against the «evil» Denuvo but in reality just angry they now can’t easily pirate the game anymore.

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  • [+] [S] 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Speaking of things that Trumpers do… Falsely accuse all opponents of being domestic terrorists or radical leftists and refuse to accept that they might be wrong.

    What if I told you that's exactly what they do and get very mad at you calling it out? Where they have an alt also do that to you? @Rhoeri@piefed.world got banned from a community for doing that, and then cried fowl for them breaking the rules.

    While still insisting I'm an alt of some users. Medication and therapy isn't enough for him. Boomer Facebook brainrot.

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  • [–] 23 points 8 months ago

    Denuvo DRM - Not even once

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