Already on Linux.
Life is good 👍
Already on Linux.
Life is good 👍
If you're still hanging on to old hardware. Linux is the way to go baby
I’m not very techie, so when I took my brand new Lenovo (cheap) laptop from w11 to Linux mint, it really felt like an achievement. I haven’t used a command terminal since college, and I straight up made a bootable usb and wiped w11
Nice!!! But I feel those entry distros could do a lot more to be more user friendly, there are many edge cases where you still need to use a terminal and have some understanding of the OS. We need a truly GUI only distro with more wizards, and automatic repair so more people flee to Gnu/Linux
Edge cases are well, on the edge and sometimes you just need to let them go. You can't always be everything to everyone.
TBH i really like that i had to get a bit techie again to make the switch. learning to use the terminal a little bit has ignited something in me, and the fact that linux doesnt track my shit has made me way more privacy conscious
Since most of Lemmy users are Linux fans, this headline sounds nice but is a bit misleading if you read the original post from Mozilla:
How can I get the newest features of Firefox?
If you want to keep your Firefox up to date, with all the latest features and security updates, you need to upgrade your operating system to Windows 10 or higher. In some cases, Microsoft may require newer hardware in order to support the newer operating system. After upgrading, you can easily reinstall Firefox and keep all of your settings.
Or, if your current hardware can't handle Windows 10 or higher for some reason, you can switch to a Linux-based operating system. The vast majority of Linux distributions come with Firefox as the default browser. Please see the support websites for the version of Linux that you're interested in.
sounds nice but is a bit misleading
To me it even sounds kind of scary. If they are telling users you need to switch your OS to continue using our app, that is going to isolate users and further decrease user base and market share. And apps that no one uses usually die. So for people who like Firefox, it doesn’t sound so nice. I’m also a Linux user, but I’m not sure if this is a positive way to drive users to Linux. (Thought it does mention windows 10 upgrade hardware requirement limitations, which might be a positive way to drive users to Linux, thanks Microsoft.)
Market share for Win 7-8.1 is, no joke, 0.69% (nice). And how many of those users are running FireFox?
What a bad take.
Are you really asking Mozilla to restart supporting Windows XP as well because the web browser is used for some embedded application, too?
And so what?
If the user liked Firefox, they will need to switch the OS anyway. Doesnt matter if Apple, MS or Linux. Firefox is present in all them.
man I'm facing either needing to get a new pc in THIS market to use 10, or find an entire new professional software workflow to do my job. professional video on Linux isn't real. hobbysist video sure, but pro video work with partners just isn't realistic on linux.
this is the first thing that's actually pushing me hard.
How the hell are you editing video on a PC that can't even support Windows 10?
I'm fairly certain they meant 11.
That doesn't make any sense, though. Firefox still supports Windows 10. It's just support for 7 and 8 that's ending.
I don't think they were talking about firefox. I think they were just complaining in general. The bit about needing to buy new equipment is what gives it away that they're talking about not having TPM2.0.
Edit: Just saw that they confirmed my guess under a different response to me.
Even if it’s windows 11 that they meant then what are they doing professionally that runs at acceptable speeds?
If this is actually for work where you get paid money you’d probably be better off financing a new computer and doubling your output.
i did mean 11, My pc is plenty powerful it just doesn't happen to include a tpm chip. i have no issues with power. it handles 4k 120p 10 bit timelines fine. upgrading right now in this market would be asinine if software wasn't pushing me into 11.
There are plenty of very powerful machines that can't run win11 because they don't have TPM2.0. It has nothing to do with their specs being unable to run the OS. It's a scam by Microsoft to force people to upgrade
TPM is built into every 8th Gen. Intel and Ryzen 2000/3000 series CPUs.
7th Gen. and older machines are pretty dire by modern standards unless you had a top of the line i7, or an HEDT equivalent (did they still make those then?). 1st Gen. Ryzen suuucks for single core performance, but for video editing it’s probably ok. But you’d have to pick your codecs carefully. Even modern CPUs chug with certain codecs.
Yoy are doing professional video work on a PC old enough that it can't run Windows 10?
Those versions of windows haven't had support for years. They shouldn't even be connected to the internet.
They shouldn't even be connected to the internet.
Yes. What's also true is that sometimes they must be. You will disagree until you find the exception.
There's nothing great about companies dropping support and also keeping the code in-house so we can't contract out improvements and fixes, but unless we change that we're stuck in a world where ridiculously expensive hardware either needs an old OS or becomes astoundingly expensive e-waste. And yes, it needs to connect sometimes. And yes, that's a scary as shit.
Half od my customers still use Win 7, a few on XP, some on8 for some reason, most on 10.
Then there's maybe 10% on linux.
Most industries are adverse to change and if you can just patch and continue then fine, especially if you don't need internet like with a POS.
If you don’t need the internet then why would you care about not having the latest Firefox?
It’s fine to use old unsupported OSes as long as they’re isolated from other machines and cannot access the outside world (and you’re careful).
But nobody should be unironically using Firefox on windows 7. Windows 7 has been EOL for over half a decade at this point.
that is going to isolate users and further decrease user base and market share.
Seems in line with what Mozilla's board of <insert pun that rhymes with directors here 'cos i'm tired> has been doing for ages, so yeah.
But windoze 10 or 11 are different operating systems then windows 7 or 8.
The PC Gamer article's title also says "upgrade or". That's a heck of a detail to editorialize out of the title.
From the Mozilla post it cites:
After this, no security updates will be provided and you are strongly encouraged to upgrade to a supported Microsoft Windows version.
Or, if your current hardware can't handle Windows 10 or higher for some reason, you can switch to a Linux-based operating system. The vast majority of Linux distributions come with Firefox as the default browser.
I agree switching to Linux is the better option. I want to try Bazzite.
Bazzite's excellent, just be aware going in that it's an immutible distro and some stuff may be different than you're used to.
It will be different anyway, as it is a completely different operating system that has nothing in common with windows.
Windows is mutable. That’s likely what they are referring to.
Except it will prevent you from mutating many of its system files. I mean it's not a good argument for a former Windows user, unless they get a sudden urge to tinker with all possible system files on Linux (which is possible to do on immutable systems in one way or another, but it's much harder and not as straightforward)
The worst part of immutable versions is when you go searching for help, you need to be careful about answers that might be presented to you.
For example, if I search for "how to install nVidia drivers in Fedora Kinonite 43, the first returns can often be for Fedora Plasma 43. Those terminal commands for Plasma won't work for Kinonite. And even updating is different. Instead of sudo dnf update for regular Fedora desktops, you need to type rpm-ostree update for atomic versions.
Yeah, Linux is an afterthought, but I'm glad that they brought it up at all. They could've mentioned how Linux is more privacy-conscious than Windows, but that might've opened them up to a lawsuit.
Bazzite is amazing, nearly bulletproof even?
I had a few times where it booted to the grub emergency shell, but it literally just fixed itself. Just reboot and it uses the other A/B slot. And the next update attempt just fixes whatever the problem was. That's only happened twice in the last 5 months since I switched. Most longtime Linux users should be very familiar with the grub emergency shell, but I've never been on a distro where it just fixes itself. I don't ever have to think or worry about updates, it's just a reliable daily driver. It's sick.
As people have said, Bazzite is immutable. You can install system packages/libraries if you absolutely need to, but you really should run your custom stuff in a Distrobox instead. Distrobox is preinstalled, supports graphical apps automatically, and most of the time you won't even notice it's not your real OS.
I think Bazzite is more stable and usable than Windows now. I'm tempted to switch my parents to it, it's been much more fault tolerant than Windows 11.
One of the main places windows is used, like it or not, are organizations and companies. Especially small ones. Specially ones that are not in wealthy countries. And the only thing that keeps them from switching to linux is microsoft office. (Most importantly Word, excel).
My company has ~20 people and I would switch them over to linux if it wasn't for word and excel.
While libreoffice is great on it's own, companies send eachother xlsx and docx files. And libreoffice isnt great at reading or writing them. Specially complex ones. I don't think it's much of libre office's fault, but more the shitty incompatible, unstandardized microsoft formats.
Currently I'm the only Linux user in the team, and I constantly advocate Linux, but I know if anybody switches, compatibility with microsoft office is going to be a problem. I can take the risk with the tech team but not the office section (hr, sales, secretary accounting etc.) really.
No you cannot shift to open document formats because you can't send an odt file to another company. They will not know what it is. In the enterprise world you have to "send them the word" or "the excel".
Man I feel you and I know it's just how things are. But I often ask myself the following question: Why are lots of office workers so bad with computers? It's the tool they use for 1/3 of working day in their life. Just like a craftsman should learn to use their tools. No, instead they always act like it's something only tech guys should know about.
An electrician drives around in their van full of their tools. They are expert in their tools, but some can’t even change a tire on the van.
It’s the same with office jobs. You use a bunch of tools on the computer, but the computer isn’t necessarily a part of your tool set, it’s your vehicle.
This might be a bit harsh, but to be honest, you can't expect them to be smarter. Otherwise they would also be engineers.
I'm most case you provably want to just send the document as PDF, don't you? For which use case do you want to send an editable document to another company?
It's called collaboration. When I worked as a toolmaker, I needed to use SolidWorks, despite not being a big fan, because our customers used SW and they were often literally on the other side of the planet.
Many companies will send you docx files out of sheer idiocity. And tell you to "send the word" to them.
And excel is always transferred as xlsx
Did you try OnlyOffice? I heard it has good compatibility with Microsoft Office's files, it's available on almost every OS, and looks easy to use. However, I'm not sure if you can create very complex documents like with Office.
Microsoft dominance in businesses is part of what's making me think all businesses are in cahoots with each other to make sure the only businesses that are successful are ones that take power away from the public.
There is stuff Office 360 or whatever is called to that online Microsoft Office can do just fine from Firefox or Chrome based browsers. But if things get overcomplicated, it's as good or even worse than Libreoffice at handling xlsx, docx documents.
Even current Office struggles with early Office documents.
This is the same thing that keeps my parents on windows. I do agree it’s not libre offices fault
Windows 7 users are switching to forks that still support the OS, like r3dfox, Pale Moon, Mypal, and Supermium. Home users stuck with 7 and 8 probably won't upgrade or try Linux, they didn't even update to 10 for some reason (and it was free!) .
thats so weird. if someone is forced to be on win7, no way they gonna change to linux. there has to be some compatibility issue in the background.
Pretty sure Mozilla has the numbers on how many installations each OS has, so it’s probably a legitimate decision. HOWEVER, if they want to maintain their position on Linux, I highly recommend changing the default behavior of Ctrl+Shift+C to match how it works in Helium, where it simply copies the selected content instead of opening Developer Mode, which cannot be closed again using the same keystroke.
I doubt they'll change that, since Ctrl+Shift+C also opens the dev console on chromium based browsers on Windows (just tried it with Chrome and Edge). Not sure if that's the behavior on Linux, since I only use Firefox there.
Also, I really doubt that Ctrl+Shift+C behavior is going to factor into people's decision anyway. That's a very niche problem to have.
Can confirm ctrl-shift-c opens dev console
I keep mixing up the shortcuts because ctrl-shift-c is copy in the KDE terminal
This behavior isn't unique to KDE’s Konsole; many others share it. Since Ctrl + C performs an entirely different function in most Linux terminals/shells, Firefox’s default behavior feels out of place. It’s admittedly a niche problem, but to me, it looks like an 'alien' in the Linux world.
EDIT: Thinking about it, this is actually exactly how GNU software usually works: set a weird default behavior so that people are incentivized to figure out how the software actually works just to change it.
Unless Google's search AI lied to me (and surely it would never do that) this is all Apple's fault anyway. They are the one's that highjacked Ctrl+c for the copy function.
Unfortunately, that has become ingrained now everywhere other than the Linux terminal. And as Gui interfaces have improved over the years, average users are spending less time there, and Ctrl+shift+c has become the option that feels out of place.
Yeah potentially it would be easier/more concise if I'd adjust my terminal/shell to remap the crtl+c , crtl +shift +c behavior instead of demanding the whole world revert a decision made in the last century.
But copy is Command+C on macOS and iOS, not Ctrl+C. Maybe in the Classic Mac OS days, but I doubt they would’ve made such a significant change moving to OS X.
Ctrl-Shift-C directly opens the element inspector. CTRL-SHIFT-I opens the dev tools with the inspector turned off.
You can change that in about:keyboard in the new Firefox versions
Absolutely, all behavior can be changed somehow. But the default defines the product :)
Interesting. And yet it's still incomplete. F6 and Alt+D both do the same thing (focus the address bar), so there's at least one line missing and definitely at least one column.
Ah the classic Linux community response to any complaint.
Proposing a fix is better than no fix? I didn't know it was possible, and now I'm looking into it.
Changing the default is a social issue, so of course it's more difficult than changing one's current setting.
The fuck you want us to do about it? We don't have commit access to firefox's codebase.
Why is that persons response considered the community response?
Ive been using Linux for 20 years so... Can we change that shortcut please?
What's wrong with Ctrl+C to copy? Its the default shortcut on pretty much everything except terminals.
Whats wrong with using the metric system to represent quantities? Its the default on pretty much everything except fueling planes or operating satellites. /s
The conflict arises from having two different defaults for the same action. Since users frequently switch between these environments, the lack of a universal shortcut causes constant friction.
The key issue is that the request is to change behavior in one place (browser) to match that of a rare case (terminal), causing a mismatch with the frequent case (office suites, mail programs, ...). The terminal is the odd one out, not the browser, and ought be the one to change the default for the reason you provide.
In practice, a terminal is a special case and not just a text input window, and current convention is that Ctrl + C aborts / cancels.
(You could of course have a duplicate hotkey, but now you are inconsistent w.r.t. other browsers, and there will be someone else who will be annoyed by the difference)
Yeah the person who put Developer Mode on that shortcut.. Must have never used linux.
Windows is so shit. Glad I switched, everything works so much better (and faster) on Linux.
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