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[–] 62 points 8 months ago (6 children)

without putting children into detention camps

Unfortunately this is not true. Obama's administration put families in detention camps and separated them. It was not used with such fervor, but it was wrong then, too

We protested this. There were court cases, and the Flores Settlement Agreement essentially ended the policy. But it took public outrage to enact change.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    When did Hillary marry Obama?

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I see you unaware of how the word 'and' functions in a sentence.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Absolutely fair, but I did delete my comment about 30 seconds after making it after noticing the mistake.

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  • [–] 29 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    They're still courting the mythical "Republican centrist" that just needs a little push to vote Democrat. They've learned nothing.

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  • [–] 24 points 8 months ago (33 children)

    From the person who brought you “Pokemon Go to the polls”…

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  • [+] -42 points 8 months ago (32 children)

    Way to miss the point. Deportation is not always bad. You can have it in a targeted and humane — and righteous — way without terrorizing US citizens and invading American cities and without funding a masked Gestapo apparatus.

    But you were hating that woman first before reading her statement. Please proceed.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You might wanna check out what immigration looks like on the easiest setting: https://pluralistic.net/2026/02/06/doge-ball/

    This is a photo of my second O-1 ("Alien of Extraordinary Ability") visa application. It's 800 pages long:

    The next one was 1200 pages long.

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  • [+] -12 points 8 months ago

    Nowhere did I argue that immigration is easy or that the PedoNazis haven’t made it extremely difficult so they can criminalize and target minorities.

    People are eager to attribute things to my comment without actually reading the comment. What gives?

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  • [–] 44 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You are stupid and you are wrong. Just to preempt it because I know it's coming: this is not an ad hominem. You’re not wrong because you’re stupid, you just happen to be both.

    Who do you think laid the foundations for the ICE Gestapo? Was it perhaps the “Deporter-in-Chief” and his party, who repeatedly approved massive funding increases, expanded detention capacity, normalized local–federal cooperation, and stifled every serious attempt to dismantle the apparatus once it existed?

    Hillary bragging about deportation numbers isn’t some abstract endorsement of “targeted and humane” enforcement. She’s boasting about participation in a system that already relied on mass detention, racial profiling, family separation through removal, and routine due-process abuse. The only difference is that under Obama and Clinton it was wrapped in technocratic language and better PR.

    Your chauvinist ass is treating racially targeted state violence as acceptable so long as it’s quiet, bureaucratic, and doesn’t visibly impact white citizens or comfortable middle-class communities. Obama-era deportations didn’t feel like “Gestapo tactics” to you because they were overwhelmingly inflicted on undocumented and non-white migrants, out of sight and off camera. Raids, cages, deportation flights, and shattered families were already happening. You just didn’t care, because it wasn’t framed as a crisis for white Americans.

    It's peak liberal chauvinism. Migrant lives are disposable, but the moment enforcement becomes louder or uglier, suddenly it’s a problem.

    Also it is objectively, morally and in every other conceivable way correct to hate the Clinton's, Obama, the Bushes and Reagan alongside basically every high level American politician. They are a cabal of pedophiles who have immiserated the world on an industrial scale for decades.

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago

    The fact that you can’t process a basic argument about institutional continuity yet feel confident calling someone else stupid is wild. Kids were already in cages, detention capacity was already expanded, and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Department of Homeland Security were getting pumped with funding year after year under Obama, you think that had zero relationship to what came after? Infrastructure doesn’t materialize out of thin air just because you discovered the word “fascism” in 2017. Pretending the machinery was harmless until someone you dislike used it more aggressively just makes you look like you have the memory of a goldfish and no object permanence. Or does it only count when white people get hurt?

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    In the context of US imperialism, yes, deportation is always bad. This country has no right to close its borders.

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  • [+] -17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I have you tagged as .ml moron. I see you lived up to that.

    Guess I forgot to block you before.

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Not always bad? Wtf is that nazi crap?

    Kicking someone to a place where they don't want to / cannot live is not bad?

    Even if you kick someone out for "right" reasons (which is already not proven to exist) it is still bad, that is the point, if it was something nice it would not be used as a punishment.

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  • [+] -13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Are you insane? Maybe I need to explain at a kindergarten level on the internet to people like you.

    -Immigration should be allowed and is allowed.

    -ICE in its current format should not exist.

    -People are “illegal” because the current administration has made it hard to emigrate through normal channels.

    With those obvious pieces in place: Do you think that someone that’s a murderer or tax cheat or rapist or Nazi or Pedohile (pretty much the entire Republic卐n party) should not be deprorted?

    Do you think we should arrest them and give them due process and then deport them if warranted OR do you think we should do whatever the fuck it is the current assholes are doing?

    You don’t own anger. I also feel it and hate this fucking current state my country exists within.

    Pretending I’m a (checks your comment) “Nazi” because I pointed to this crazy politician’s words being misconstrued to fit the .ml screeching is surely an answer to the question with which I started this reply.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago

    With those obvious pieces in place: Do you think that someone that’s a murderer or tax cheat or rapist or Nazi or Pedohile (pretty much the entire Republic卐n party) should not be deprorted?

    Why should they be deported? You're begging the question that deportation is the solution to those problems in the first place. You're also saying this like the point of ICE was ever to catch violent criminals, when it has always been an agency that exists to catch people who haven't otherwise been processed by the criminal justice system. The violent criminals who happen to be immigrants are already caught and processed by the regular cops who are tasked with dealing with those crimes.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    After what she did to Libya, why wouldn't I?

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  • [+] -10 points 8 months ago

    That’s fair. Hillary. Minton is a piece of shit politician but she is not even close to the other pieces of shit that are actually in the Epstein Class.

    It’s important to hold politicians accountable. However, twisting their words to fit our argument against fascism is simply playing their game. Doesn’t make us better and we sure as hell don’t win by doing it.

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  • [–] 23 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    The only problem you have with fascism is sometimes it accidentally hurts the good people huh

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Look, it's okay if an innocent person is killed from the death penalty. We just need to teach the real murderers that much harder. /s

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    listen, I'm not going to be an absolutist. When the USSR was dealing with saboteurs and fascist infiltrators there were a lot of innocent people who got singled out by villages that just didn't like them. I bet a lot of them were just neurodivergent. It bothers me.

    But if we're doing A versus B testing it's pretty clear what number is bigger and smaller ya know

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  • [+] -18 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    No but I understand you painting me in that light makes it easier to see the world in black and white and therefore easier to dismiss what I actually said.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago

    Which deportations are good and righteous as you say? What part of ICE has ever been good? Why do you think the solution for immigrants being in your country without papers is to use violence against them, instead of just... letting them apply for paperwork easier?

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Smh people just can't stand to see a girlboss fascist (who had slaves in the 1980s) succeed

    You're a clown

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The US public are quite happy with the way things are going at present and even if the Democratic leadership getting back in would do anything they will use the very same mechanisms that have been put in place over the many years of little changes here and there.

    If the majority of US citizens where not happy with how things where and what’s happening the government would be in complete shutdown with real strikes from every state … but it is not. This is the real United States.

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  • Look at this neo-liberals. This is why those on the left hate you just as much as the conservatives and MAGAt. When it gets down to brass tacks, your leaders are barely better than they are. We're tired of arguing with you as much as them as well.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago

    She is also a war criminal

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  • [–] 57 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Pepperidge Farm remembers:
    Elián González

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    Janet Reno did the right thing.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Didn't they send him back to Cuba? I forget how that all played out.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Yes, where last I read, is still with his father as an adult, happy and productive.

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  • [–] 37 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Most of the laws that are allowing trump to pull this immigration shit were passed by Democratic administrations. Bidens big strategy was to mock Trump for not deporting as many people as he did.

    But yeah, is the leftists fault that brown people aren't voting for Democrats.

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    This is why Democrats keep losing.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Well, yes, one of a few reasons. Not the only one but certainly in the top 5. Not above telling struggling people that actually everything is great and that those people must be misinformed/skill issue during a election.

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago

    Yup. They were just better at being shit. Or nation has no right to deport anyone from the Americas. If someone is fleeing their nation, the US is probably the reason why in the first place.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago

    Yeah because the ICE surge has nothing to do with deporting immigrants. It's about fear and control.

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  • [–] 28 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Freedom of movement should be a universal human right

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah but Bill Clinton began the huge increase in police. Where that and combination of 9/11 has created this vast paramilitarized police force we are still dealing with today. The current iteration of which is the ICE power grab happening.

    I guess not doubling down where there is significant tensions is a slight positive difference.

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  • [–] 36 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Dems are the "good cop" to the republican "bad cop". They both want to fuck you over in the exact same way. One just pretends to be nice to you.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The Dems moving their messaging to the right. Overton Window in action. Being proud of the number of lives stopped from being lived is a new low for the DNC.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    "The republicans of 10-20 years ago are today's democrats" has been true for like 60 years now.

    Modern democrats are even rehabilating GW Bush, who killed a million innocent people in Iraq just a few years ago. The democrats of a few years from now will be rehabilitating Trump when there's a new "bad cop" they need to play "good cop" against.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    Lawful Evil

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I never understood why these establishment corporate Democrats respond to Republican criticism by acting more like Republicans. Those psychos have big mouths, but that doesn't mean that what comes out is worthy of attention.

    Democrats need to learn to say Shut The Fuck Up and Get The Fuck Out, when MAGAs start whining, NOT listen to them.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    Yeah, I never understood why these establishment corporate Democrats respond to Republican criticism by acting more like Republicans.

    They act more like republicans in response to any sensory input.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    >In 1992, Bill Clinton spoke from the mecca of American white supremacy to launch his "tough on crime" agenda.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    It’s because it’s not about that it’s about terrorizing the population to support Shitler and turd Reich

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago* (19 children)

    Democrats are just as racist as the Republicans, they are just better at hiding it, just look at their bipartisan support for the border wall, ICE, and more.

    https://www.leftvoice.org/racism-is-bipartisan/

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    Dems and others hate when you point out there only mad at trump for certain things because he doesn't do them with decorum or behind the scenes. He just announces it wildly as doing the terrible things most do behind the curtain.

    Like Venezuela and Iran. Not mad at attacks on other countries out of nowhere, but upset it wasn't done after telling congress or letting congress say go for it

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (5 children)

    Democrats are just as racist as the Republicans

    That's just not true. They are obviously not even close to the same. They are both racist (and even both very racist), but actively engaging in white supremacy IS WORSE and I shouldn't have to explain why. You can argue that they are both bad, but I think the side that is okay with a former police officer chasing a black man down with his truck and shooting him might be worse.

    I get that you want to equate these two, that any amount of racism is somehow just as bad, but it just fucking isn't, and I'm tired of this "both sides" bullshit when one side has active lynchers in its midsts and brandishes at the sight of a black person. Make an argument that calls out the "tough on crime" narrative that passively destroys the lives of racial minorities, but don't call them the same. That's such a weenie position.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    They are both racist (and even both very racist), but actively engaging in white supremacy IS WORSE and I shouldn’t have to explain why. You can argue that they are both bad, but I think the side that is okay with a former police officer chasing a black man down with his truck and shooting him might be worse.

    Make an argument that calls out the “tough on crime” narrative that passively destroys the lives of racial minorities, but don’t call them the same. That’s such a weenie position.

    Curious what you think "tough on crime" means and how it's separate from "white supremacy" and the police killing black people. How is "tough on crime" passive? Do you think the effects of "tough on crime" on the lives of racial minorities were not intentional?

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, considering I went over how there are Republicans that have actively lynched people for their race, I think I covered that pretty well, but let's pretend I didn't because not everyone can understand things the first time.

    Tough on crime is passive because it is not about saying white people are superior, a thing Republicans do. It is also not actively telling people that Muslims are worse than dogs, a thing Republicans do. While the mechanisms of the state actively target minorities to a significantly higher degree, this is passively racist because it relies on underlying connections to tie minorities to crimes.

    See, the sad part about your argument is that Republicans platform and actively defend the people who shoot minorities and actively defend the people who do so. Motherfuckers out here pretending the people who shoot up black churches and synagogues are anything other than Republicans, are hilariously bad faith. Anyone who thinks the Democrats are somehow just as racist as hate crime doers and defenders has shit for brains. That's active racism, and yeah, it's fucking worse.

    Unless you think killing minorities and telling people to kill minorities is better than just saying "we're tough on crime". Do you think that?

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    This analysis only makes even a slight amount of sense if you actually don't know what "context" or "a system" are. These two forces are not in opposition, they're on the same side. It's the same racist system being sustained in two slightly different ways and a critical aspect of that is the (fake) appearance of opposition which you have completely bought into. You're also pretending a lot of democrats aren't literally impossible to tell apart from republicans even within your framing, which isn't the case. For example, Joe Biden.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    Actions speak louder than words. The Democrats may say they oppose these things, but functionally they do absolutely nothing to actually oppose the Republicans. What has the Democratic party done to oppose the Republicans beside be pathetic and bend the knee to their every whim? People still get deported under both parties, as stated in the above post, so functionally racism is still government policy regardless. When people make the point the parties are the same, the point we're trying to make is that electoralism under the American system will accomplish nothing. Only be standing against the party duopoly(which mind you, is effectively a one-party state) and pushing for regime change can racism be stamped out.

    Also, both parties still bomb West-Asians just as much. So they're also equally racist in that regard.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    This is just the epitome of the white liberal misunderstanding of racism and how it functions. Yes these things are the same. This is why people refer to "active racism" as you call it, as "going mask off".

    The polite veneer that Democrats place over their support of racist policies is the reason MLK and Malcolm x cautioned against the "moderate whites".

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Democrats are just as racist as the Republicans

    No way.

    There's a massive difference between being proud of being actively racist (MAGA), defiantly believing it's not possible to be racist in 2026 because MLK ended racism (garden variety Republicans), forgetting about certain invasions and genocides based on (social) media coverage (which is based on expected viewership for ad revenue, which is based on skin color) (garden variety Democrats), and someone who I would describe as generally "not racist," i.e. you, I assume if for no other reason than expedience of this discussion.

    Pretending all three of the other groups are identical is not productive, intellectually dishonest, and makes fighting or educating them harder.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    I believe they meant establishment politicians, not necessarily voters, which I agree with. If you support the same invasions, regime changes, racial profiling and prison slavery, etc, I don't think you get to claim moral superiority for being smarter in how you conduct yourself.

    Your country was built by genociding multiple indigenous peoples and enslaving black people and treating them like property, to this day it's still very oppressive to both of these demographics, in addition to many other groups deemed undesirable by both liberals and fascists in power.

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I still don't buy it.

    You two are saying Bernie Sanders, famously pictured getting arrested for marching with MLK, is as racist as people like Strom Thurmond, who filibustered the Civil Rights Act, Tim Scott who said welfare is worse for black people than slavery, or Vivek Ramaswamy who said white supremacy doesn't exist?

    Ain't no way.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Being okay with genocide anywhere makes you a massive racist yeah, Bernie might perform radical politics but he's still a Zionist who betrayed his voters for the last couple of years on his refusal to speak for Palestinians and for decades by arming Israel.

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    You're thinking of the world in naive binary Good vs. Evil, handing elections over to the people who, instead of doing a shitty job of fighting genocide (Dem.), would enthusiastically perpetuate it (Rep.).

    TL;DR:

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/dccd0d0b-9624-43a4-af69-c71d4839b19c.png

    Not to mention that isn't even the discussion we're having. You missed (or pretended to miss) the part where we're talking about comparison.

    Which is hotter, tea that is 55C or 60C? If your answer is "They are both hot," you are being obtuse and I hope you at least realize that, even if you can't stop yourself.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    handing elections over to the people who, instead of doing a shitty job of fighting genocide (Dem.), would enthusiastically perpetuate it (Rep.).

    Jesus Christ, were we even living in the same universe during the last 3 years? Joe Biden was unquestionably more enthusiastic about supporting genocide than Donald Trump ever was.

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  • [+] -7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

    they are just better at hiding it

    The page you're providing covers a long history. It does a great job at trying to push for a new independant party, but does a very poor job at arguing that Right and Left are the same.

    Everything before "New Forms for Old Racism: Great Rebellions and the Policies to Sustain Modern Segregation" was in the early 1900's or older when things were bad as hell. Having only the last 1/3 of the article covers the present day skews the whole thing.

    If you want to say right and left are the same, look at actions:

    Who propped up DEI? Who dismantled it?

    Which side pushed for civil rights acts? Which pushed against them?

    Which side desegrated the military?

    Which side preformed DOJ investigations into police departments with patterns of racial discrimination?

    Which side started The My Brother’s Keeper initiative, aimed at improving outcomes for boys and young men of color.

    How about The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act addressing wage discrimination, including racial pay gaps.

    or The George Floyd Justice in Policing Act passed by the Democratic House in 2020 (though blocked in the Senate).

    or The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act restoring protections against racial voter suppression.

    You can find what feels like an unending list of democrat initiatives that dampen racsim, flipping to the republicans you can find a handfull at best.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act

    The one they wouldn't do away with the Jim Crow Filibuster to pass? I don't count things that democrats worked with republicans to block as accomplishments.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act "The bill would restore and strengthen parts of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, most notably its requirement for states and jurisdictions with a history of voting rights violations to seek federal approval before enacting certain changes to their voting laws."

    yeah, sounds horrible.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago
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