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34 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
[–] 102 points 8 months ago (9 children)

"AI" truly ruins everything.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

    On hardware costs, if it produces a large, sustained amount of demand, and if there are fixed costs (e.g. R&D) that can be shared between hardware used for it and other things, it may substantially reduce hardware prices in the long run for other users.

    Suppose, to take an example, that there is demand for, oh, completely pulling a number out of the air, 4 times the amount of high bandwidth memory for AI that there is for 3D video cards and video game consoles. That's on a sustained basis, not just our initial AI buildout. There is going to be some amount of fixed costs that have to be done at Micron and Samsung and the like to figure out how to design the product and optimize production.

    That's going to mean that AI users likely pay something like 80% of the fixed costs for HBM, which may very well lower costs for other users of HBM.

    In late 2025 and 2026 there is a huge surge in demand for hardware. There's a shortage of hardware, and factories don't get built out overnight. So prices skyrocket, pricing out many users to the point where demand at the new price point matches the available supply. But as production capacity increases, that will also ease.

    I do get that it's frustrating if someone wants to build a system right now.

    But scale matters a lot, and this may enable a lot more scale.

    The reason I can have a cheap Linux desktop at home isn't because there are masses of people buying Linux desktops, but because there are huge numbers of businesses out there buying Windows desktops and many of the fixed hardware development costs are shared. If those businesses running Windows desktops suddenly disappeared tomorrow, I probably couldn't afford my home Linux desktop, because suddenly I'd need to be paying a lot more of the fixed costs.

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  • [–] 23 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I get what you’re saying, but weren’t big manufacturers committing to NOT expand production capacities? I can’t remember where I read it, but it felt more like they were just gonna hedge their bets and not build out in the near term.

    Not to mention, this all sounds and looks like commitments and not actual orders. It just feels like they’re all playing with imaginary money and when the AI bubble bursts, and all those commitments up and disappear like a fart in the wind, those benefits of scale are also going to disappear and the prices will just stay high.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    No, they're definitely also expanding.

    Not all of them, certainly, but there are a few plans for new factories. Samsung, for instance, is rolling out a new chip factory, if you want something to search.

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  • In late 2025 and 2026 there is a huge surge in demand for hardware. There's a shortage of hardware, and factories don't get built out overnight. So prices skyrocket, pricing out many users to the point where demand at the new price point matches the available supply. But as production capacity increases, that will also ease.

    And this is where your entire idea falls apart… The manufacturers have openly stated that they have zero interest in expanding production. They’re trying to avoid a supply surplus after the boom ends, and they know that expanding production now means crashed prices later. Why expand production, when you can simply not spend that money and charge higher prices anyways?

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Even if everything you say comes true I still don't see the prices coming back down. They never did after covid

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 child)

    Covid produced inflation, where the strength of the currency dropped. The Federal Reserve wouldn't permit deflation, because you'd risk seeing a deflationary spiral. Instead, it'll just see wages increase more quickly than prices for a period afterwards to restore buying power. This is a specific product that's seeing a shortage


    you can list plenty of points in the past where a good was in short supply and prices rose and then fell.

    EDIT: Just in computer hardware, to pick an example, hard drive prices went up when we had that flooding in southeast Asia fifteen years back.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Thailand_floods#Damages_to_industrial_estates_and_global_supply_shortages

    Thailand is the world's second-largest producer of hard disk drives, supplying approximately 25 percent of the world's production.[76] Many of the factories that made hard disk drives were flooded, including Western Digital's, leading some industry analysts to predict future worldwide shortages of hard disk drives....As a result, most hard disk drive prices almost doubled globally, which took approximately two years to recover.

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    [–] 53 points 8 months ago

    Terminator said AI would destroy humanity. We just didn‘t know it would be with hoarding of natural and manufactured resources to fuel an idiocracy. No pitched and desperate war for the survival of humanity, just a necrosis eating us alive for the quarterly report.

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  • [–] 36 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Imagine if we put this level of effort into something objectively positive for the human race.

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Oh fuck....

    I just need two more 8TB drives so I can complete my NAS, that is all. Don't blow up now! Please....

    ):

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago

    In other news grocery stores are out of tomatoes, because AI.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Wonderful.

    This reminds me of those morons that run out to buy ALL the toilet paper to sell later.

    Except it's the toilet paper manufacturers that are hoarding all their product because there are these billionaire fuck-bags that are promising to produce a massive pile of shit and will pay anything to have ALL the toilet paper.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    stupid idiots

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    You know what's crazy about this AI bullshit. I've been wanting to buy a micro SD card for my tablet but the hard drive shortage has caused the price of micro SD cards to double in the past few months, so I might not be able to anytime soon. The only one that's reasonably priced is from Silicon Power, which is a brand that I've never even heard of before.

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  • [+] -12 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    I'm tempted to just say "good, less WD drives around ". But there aren't a lot, if any, good manufacturers left. What we actually get is probably more Seagate, which is even worse.

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  • [–] 42 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    We're not getting more anything. AI is taking it all up

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    After the pop there will be plenty of 2nd hand components that were never used or are slightly used.

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  • 15 comments in c/technology@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 21 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    OpenAI can't crash and burn fast enough

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago

    Fuck Sam Altman.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    I think the more this type of thing happens, the more people will start rejecting AI.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    I bet that overall percentage of people who actually connect this with AI or even really care is tiny. Aside from gamers, majority of people don't really build their own rigs, or upgrade computers constantly.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Nobody buys laptops anymore. Only geeks do.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Also kind of true, most people use phones or tablets nowadays. You only really need a laptop if you are creating content. If you're simply consuming it, then you just need a screen.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I can't believe we haven't started seeing work station docks for phones. Imagine carrying your laptop with you everywhere in your pocket, but then having a mouse, keyboard, monitor, and a few USB ports to do all of your laptop things without needing to buy a laptop. Maybe the phone mounts on top of the monitor to make use of its camera too. I'm sure these things are powerful enough for how most people would use that. Just not games and blender, and probably not video editing.

    I could even see something like internet cafes come back. Rent a docked work station, plug your phone in, get shit done and take it with you when you leave. It seems redundant only because we still have libraries, but when the fascists recognize libraries as socialism and ban them, then you'll see the value of my stupid fucking idea.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago

    I've been thinking the exact same thing actually. I'd love to just have a single device I carry around that I could dock to add more juice and use like a desktop at home.

    Incidentally, this would eliminate the need for most cloud hosting services too. If you don't need to constantly sync data, then you don't need online services for any of your media. You just need sync when you collaborate with other people. This would afford way more privacy.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago*

    Samsung has something like this already with DeX (the dock isn't even that expensive either, though it's kind of bad value for money since it's just a fan and some ports). Not nearly robust enough for actual workstation needs but it works for office stuff.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    They need all the storage to store training data for artificial intelligence models.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Are there any Chinese HDD manufacturers? Alternatives?

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  • 6 comments in c/datahoarder@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Man, this bubble can’t pop soon enough. I’d like to expand to four 16TB drives to replace my aging drives in the next year or so without taking out a second mortgage.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Glad I bought drives in december. As long as they dont break, should hold me easily into 2030

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    SSD prices have spiked as well. Everything I've looked at is 2-3x the price it was just a month or two ago.

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  • 2 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 16 points 8 months ago

    Feels like the 2000s Samsung price fixing all over again.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    I’ll remember this when times change. I hope WD go down when there’s a bubble burst.

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