The entire reason that ICE is in the streets is because Trump wants to beat Obama and Biden's deportation numbers. He is just too stupid to do it in a way that isn't stupid.

Trying to sound reasonable is far from the same as trying to be reasonable.

If they were trying to be reasonable they wouldn't be centrists, they'd be as far away as possible from conservative, corporatist parasites, fascits, and similar critters, instead of trying to appease them.

But of course “centrists” aren't trying to be reasonable. “Centrist” is just the label those parasites use when trying to disguise their nature from their victims.

Centrists are at least trying to be reasonable.

Not in my experience. They don't want to appear to be what they are, assholes. Therefore they will nod and agree with progressive policies but when push comes to shove then they unleash the usual bullshit, "now is not the time", "you're asking for too much", "how can we afford it?", "baby steps", and so on.

Take universal health care. I'd rather not have my time wasted by a conservative simply saying, "lol, hell no, you commie" than deal with the bullshit hand wringing of a centrist where they expend so much energy trying to convince themselves they're not the bad guys.

Hey now, I'm a centrist!

I'm just the center of the left. You know, where respect for humanity exists.

(i couldn't resist, sorry)

Centrism is a myth, it’s right wing for people too afraid to call themselves as such.

That's self-identified "Centrists" in the US who inhabit somewhere in the middle of the Overton window. Centrism in less relative terms is generally Liberals and they range from Center Left to Center Right.

But left and right isn't just capitalism vs not capitalism... There's a lot of other factors. But, there's also things like social capitalism and social democracy that keep most of capitalism, while including checks and balances to reduce the destruction of society. I'd expect most centrists to want something like that, even if they don't appreciate/understand the name.

I'm tired of playing nice with people who are okay with a system that outright kills people and needs them to die to be the lubricant in its gears.

Or maybe just pointing out that our "center" is far right.

This is looking at the right.

It appears this is a Centrists are Right Wingers in sheeps clothing post. The opposite of "don't look at what the right's doing".

No, it's that you're not left if you're arguing for keeping capitalism. It's a very low bar to pass.

Leftists disagree with each other on basically every other aspect of how society should run, but not this one.

The bar that almost every Leftist expects you to pass is "exploiting people is wrong" which is an easy fucking purity test if you're not a sociopath.

Don't forget that the same system teaches all the regular people that wealth is a sign of virtue. That silly thought is not limited to the people who have the wealth. Much the opposite, in fact.

They also like to pretend that luck is minor part of it or even a non-issue. It's crazy to imagine how much good could result from eliminating the concept that people are where they are solely because they "deserve" it and they "worked" for it.

I worked for the stuff I have too. That doesn't mean I am not incredibly lucky.

but they think they have money based on virtue, and i don't based on some sort of failing

That is from the whole "prosperity gospel" grift that sprung up and spread especially well in the US post WWII. Apparently God sets your net worth based on your spiritual scorecard, which appeals to the middle class and is used by the upper class as a replacement for the Devine Right of Kings to rule. It's worth an afternoon's deep dive if you have any interest in how religion can be so easily twisted as one of the levers of power.

Actual centrism is nothing more than the state of not falling completely in line with the values/positions of one 'wing'. Anyone who could be accurately described as "right-leaning" or "left-leaning" is by definition a type of centrist; that's why it's 'only' a "lean".

The way centrism is stereotyped is similar to how bisexuals most commonly experience biphobic stereotyping. Bisexuals can be seen as 'gay in denial' (see the 'conservative in disguise' comment you replied to), as sexual 'fence-sitters', as impressionable 'sluts' who don't have the conviction to commit to one sex, etc.

The fact is, a lot more people than one might assume, 'deviate' from both extremes to some degree.

First of all of those parties I only consider D66 as central. Ja21 is far right. VVD pretends to be center but is also very right. SGP and CU are right and Christian so very conservative.

The thing about the freezing, it basically means healthcare stays as it is, and the newest most expensive treatments aren't automatically added to system, but the current ones are still valid. It's not great, but we need to seriously step up our military to gain more independence from the US, so we can defend ourselves against Putin, even if the US would choose not to help. This is going to cost a lot, so we need to either cut costs somewhere (healthcare is one of the biggest expenses) or we need to borrow more. Borrowing more will also kick the cheque down the road, basically making it the problem of the next generation. In a better world there was no thread of war and all the money could be spend on things like healthcare, but that is not the reality we live in.

The right has never been about a balanced budget, it's been about maintaining a power structure and the means to prevent people getting into power they don't want.

Let's do a thought experiment.

You have a group of people who grumble about the status quo but are fed information that any change to the status quo is bad for them.

There's a filthy rich dude who controls the information they are being fed.

You have two options:

1. Campaign for the removal of the filthy rich dude, redistribution of wealth, hard left turn, and - essentially - a revolution.
2. Campaign to get them slightly better protection, and a bit more money. Get them comfortable with that, and then campaign for more changes.

Number 1 has around 0,00001% of succeeding.

Number 2 has around 30% of succeeding.

Which do you choose?

What exactly do you think they are trying to reduce the harm to if not human life?

“Come on, guys, sacrificing some people in our society so we can have rich people is better than sacrificing alot of people in our society so we can have filthy stinking rich people!”

You got it backwards.

It's: "come on, guys, people are afraid of big sweeping changes, so - since filthy stinking rich people control the narrative - it's better to make changes where some people will be sacrificed for the rich, than sacrificing all people for the rich".

And your reply is the perfect example of a leftists who values purity over harm reduction.

It's almost like the trolley problem was created to wrestle with the horrible choices life sometimes puts in front of us, instead of just giving us something to talk about in philosophy class.

Now if we don't have destitute or uneducated people, where are we going to get children for pedo billionaires to rape? Bet you didn't think of that human rights violation, dirty commies!!!

Surely you can think of some cases in your political life where you had to choose between a bad and a worse option?

Simple things, like voting strategically for the least bad of two options in FPTP voting systems, even if the candidate isn't perfect. Like voting for Lincoln (racist white supremacist) over Douglas (enslaver).

Promoting and voting for the best candidate possible who is likely to win their election, even when they aren't as good as you wish they were.