753
why not the centre? (quokk.au)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/mop
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[–] 12 points 9 months ago (23 children)

This is such a wild statement. Conservatives are way bigger assholes, but that's overshadowed by the fact that they're more obvious? Centrists are at least trying to be reasonable.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    The entire reason that ICE is in the streets is because Trump wants to beat Obama and Biden's deportation numbers. He is just too stupid to do it in a way that isn't stupid.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the entire reason, but so? Deporting undocumented immigrants isn't an unreasonable policy. You might disagree with borders in the first place, but that's a pretty radical position. The being in the streets doing things stupidly is a much bigger issue than believing in borders.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    And there you go, that right there is the difference we are talking about.

    I think it is bad to round up kids and working people and throw them into cages without trials or rights or representation.

    You think that is OK as long as the guys doing it aren't hassling white people in the streets while they do it.

    That is the difference between a leftist and a centrist.

    The part that you have a hard time understanding is that your position is a LOT closer to the Republican position than you care to admit.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    What? That's not my position, I'm not a centrist, I'm not telling you my personal political positions, I am describing centrists as they appear to be and not some sinister devious caricature.

    When I say something is "reasonable", I'm not saying it's correct,. I'm just saying that it was arrived at through an attempt, successful or not, to reach a balanced and realistic solution.

    No one in the center thinks rounding up kids and working people and throwing them in cages is OK. Most people who aren't MAGA aren't cheering for cages. But people do want some kind of record keeping and security to keep out actual criminals.

    And the white people in the streets is what makes headlines, so that's when the people who aren't regularly plugged into the news find out about these things.

    I'm not singing their praises for not taking an interest in the first place, or not being more vocal in their discontent, but I'm not going to pretend that being ignorant or conflicted about throwing kids in cages is worse than throwing the kids in the cages.

    Yes the centrists have many failings, but I don't see the benefit in framing them as the real problem. Just seems like it takes out focus off the real problem.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    No one in the center thinks rounding up kids and working people and throwing them in cages is OK.

    Then why are you constantly telling us we have to vote for people who do? Why is this literally the only position centrists have on immigration? Remember when Biden was really proud of his deportation numbers and used them to dunk in Trump and the dnc ate it up?

    When we only get one option to oppose fascism and that option decides to also be fascists, then yeah, they are the reason we have fascism.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Again, not me telling you that, and still missing the point. The fascists are the reason we have fascists. They are the enemy, the centrists are just bad allies.

    I'm not opposed to criticizing centrists, I'm opposed to distracting ourselves and acting against our interests by claiming bad allies are the real enemy. People like to feel like they figured out the real threat, and it was secretly some seemingly innocuous force. But usually, the obvious threat is obvious for a reason.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe you should stop making arguments that you need to distance yourself from the moment you make them?

    We aren't in charge of what fascists do, but we are in charge of what other who want our vote do. You get that, right?

    Trump doesn't give a shit what I want because I'm never voting for him or his party. But Kamala and the DNC need my vote to win. You understand why that means I'm going to tell them what I want them to do and file them accountable to that, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    What argument am I distancing myself from?

    You do understand that you're proving my point. If you can influence the centrist, then they're not the greater enemy. Again, not saying they're above criticism, my complaint is painting them as worse than fascists. That's simply a ridiculous claim.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    The unreasonable part is the US setting up a system that makes immigration illegal but encourages it so that farmers can have a cheap supply of exploitable labor then deporting said immigrants so politicians can use fear of "the other" to manipulate voters and appeal to bigots. Farm workers use to come to the US for the harvest, get paid, and go home. Now getting here is so much work it's only worth it if you stay longer then one season.

    And that's ignoring the fact that the political and economic uncertainty that drives people to immigrate here in the first place is constantly the result of actions made by the US.

    Not that I believe in any of that borders nonsense anyway. Borders exist to limit the power of states, not the movement of people.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Trying to sound reasonable is far from the same as trying to be reasonable.

    If they were trying to be reasonable they wouldn't be centrists, they'd be as far away as possible from conservative, corporatist parasites, fascits, and similar critters, instead of trying to appease them.

    But of course “centrists” aren't trying to be reasonable. “Centrist” is just the label those parasites use when trying to disguise their nature from their victims.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    You're assuming that everyone else has the same information as you, and that they choose to ignore it deliberately. Everyone learns different things about the world at different times, it's unreasonable to conclude that anyone who differs from you is doing so deliberately.

    You've started with your conclusion and you've worked backwards to find your reasoning.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Centrists are at least trying to be reasonable.

    Not in my experience. They don't want to appear to be what they are, assholes. Therefore they will nod and agree with progressive policies but when push comes to shove then they unleash the usual bullshit, "now is not the time", "you're asking for too much", "how can we afford it?", "baby steps", and so on.

    Take universal health care. I'd rather not have my time wasted by a conservative simply saying, "lol, hell no, you commie" than deal with the bullshit hand wringing of a centrist where they expend so much energy trying to convince themselves they're not the bad guys.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    That's where you and I differ I suppose. If you waste your time, that's on you. I'd much rather talk to someone who's at least open to a concept than a conservative that says "No, and actually I'm gonna vote for the exact opposite"

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I think we differ in that you take these people at face value. Let me know if you ever find a centrist who walks the walk.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I know many. Their cardinal sin is being relatively uninformed, not being deceptive.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    No you don't. If they walked the walk they wouldn't be centrists, would they?

    You're ascribing their centrism to ignorance, I don't really care if it's that, or avarice, or any other motivation. If you're a centrist then by definition you're in the middle, you find more or less equal fault with both the left and the right. You find virtue more or less equally in the positions of both progressives and MAGA. Think about that for a minute in the context of everything that's going on in the world.

    Yes, these people are assholes.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Whatever you say buddy, you can't learn anything if you start with your conclusions and twist facts to justify them. You've made up your mind, and the left will continue to suffer because of you and the leftists like you. Maybe consider talking to people in real life instead of circle-jerking in radical online spaces. Real people are not the caricatures you make them out to be.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    the left will continue to suffer because of you and the leftists like you.

    There it is.

    Maybe consider talking to people in real life instead of circle-jerking in radical online spaces.

    And with a side of patronizing asshole too. Good job my centrist friend.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Wrong, I'm a leftist. I'm just not a leftist who has to feel edgy by painting everyone who isn't left enough as an asshole. It's counterproductive thought-terminating nonsense and I'm tired of seeing it from others on the left.

    You've self-righteously decided that when you're a patronizing asshole, you're just speaking uncomfortable truth to power, and the real assholes are everyone who doesn't have your exact political positions. This isn't the way bud.

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