753
why not the centre? (quokk.au)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/mop
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[–] 12 points 9 months ago (12 children)

The entire reason that ICE is in the streets is because Trump wants to beat Obama and Biden's deportation numbers. He is just too stupid to do it in a way that isn't stupid.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the entire reason, but so? Deporting undocumented immigrants isn't an unreasonable policy. You might disagree with borders in the first place, but that's a pretty radical position. The being in the streets doing things stupidly is a much bigger issue than believing in borders.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    And there you go, that right there is the difference we are talking about.

    I think it is bad to round up kids and working people and throw them into cages without trials or rights or representation.

    You think that is OK as long as the guys doing it aren't hassling white people in the streets while they do it.

    That is the difference between a leftist and a centrist.

    The part that you have a hard time understanding is that your position is a LOT closer to the Republican position than you care to admit.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    What? That's not my position, I'm not a centrist, I'm not telling you my personal political positions, I am describing centrists as they appear to be and not some sinister devious caricature.

    When I say something is "reasonable", I'm not saying it's correct,. I'm just saying that it was arrived at through an attempt, successful or not, to reach a balanced and realistic solution.

    No one in the center thinks rounding up kids and working people and throwing them in cages is OK. Most people who aren't MAGA aren't cheering for cages. But people do want some kind of record keeping and security to keep out actual criminals.

    And the white people in the streets is what makes headlines, so that's when the people who aren't regularly plugged into the news find out about these things.

    I'm not singing their praises for not taking an interest in the first place, or not being more vocal in their discontent, but I'm not going to pretend that being ignorant or conflicted about throwing kids in cages is worse than throwing the kids in the cages.

    Yes the centrists have many failings, but I don't see the benefit in framing them as the real problem. Just seems like it takes out focus off the real problem.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    No one in the center thinks rounding up kids and working people and throwing them in cages is OK.

    Then why are you constantly telling us we have to vote for people who do? Why is this literally the only position centrists have on immigration? Remember when Biden was really proud of his deportation numbers and used them to dunk in Trump and the dnc ate it up?

    When we only get one option to oppose fascism and that option decides to also be fascists, then yeah, they are the reason we have fascism.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Again, not me telling you that, and still missing the point. The fascists are the reason we have fascists. They are the enemy, the centrists are just bad allies.

    I'm not opposed to criticizing centrists, I'm opposed to distracting ourselves and acting against our interests by claiming bad allies are the real enemy. People like to feel like they figured out the real threat, and it was secretly some seemingly innocuous force. But usually, the obvious threat is obvious for a reason.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe you should stop making arguments that you need to distance yourself from the moment you make them?

    We aren't in charge of what fascists do, but we are in charge of what other who want our vote do. You get that, right?

    Trump doesn't give a shit what I want because I'm never voting for him or his party. But Kamala and the DNC need my vote to win. You understand why that means I'm going to tell them what I want them to do and file them accountable to that, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    What argument am I distancing myself from?

    You do understand that you're proving my point. If you can influence the centrist, then they're not the greater enemy. Again, not saying they're above criticism, my complaint is painting them as worse than fascists. That's simply a ridiculous claim.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    The unreasonable part is the US setting up a system that makes immigration illegal but encourages it so that farmers can have a cheap supply of exploitable labor then deporting said immigrants so politicians can use fear of "the other" to manipulate voters and appeal to bigots. Farm workers use to come to the US for the harvest, get paid, and go home. Now getting here is so much work it's only worth it if you stay longer then one season.

    And that's ignoring the fact that the political and economic uncertainty that drives people to immigrate here in the first place is constantly the result of actions made by the US.

    Not that I believe in any of that borders nonsense anyway. Borders exist to limit the power of states, not the movement of people.

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