cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/59378754

The calls for a nationwide (US) shutdown this Friday (Jan 30) are growing louder

https://universeodon.com/@KrajciTom/115967673993639921

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[–] 26 points 9 months ago

Let's get it boys and girls. I'm ready

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (19 children)

    Is it better to skip work entirely or go and just goof off? Probably the former?

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  • [+] 48 points 9 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 36 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    privileged enough to be able

    My European mind can't comprehend this. Strikes are a right for every single worker, even the most unprivileged ones (with very few exceptions for public safety reasons)

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    exceptions for public safety

    Like nurses, firefighters... but that's exactly fucking why you have multi-industry unions. So when nurses need a raise, engineers can strike on their behalf.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    This is why every time deregulation in general comes up, I suggest we start with the Taft-Hartley act.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    To elaborate on the situation in The Netherlands: You can only strike when certain conditions are met. In short, you use it as a final measurement to force your employer to change something if other less radical measurements were ineffective.

    In this case, most employers have absolutely no influence over whatever ICE does, so I'd highly doubt a strike would be 'allowed' for something like this over here in The Netherlands.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It's illegal not to show up to work? I mean on the picket line maybe. But a general strike is more about not showing up than demonstrating. What are they going to send soldiers house to house and force you to go to work at the point of a bayonet?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Employees striking illegally or unauthorized can first of all have their pay withheld (which sounds obvious, but is very rare in The Netherlands). Second of all, they can be forced to pay damages to their employer. And as an extreme measure, their employment contract may be terminated without being able to collect government unemployment benefits later.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    That does all seem rather plausible ways to get fucked. If the strike was really general they couldn't do that to everyone, but if it fizzled out they could. At least your government is not trying to create the fourth reich at the moment, albeit they are sucking enough that the 4th reich aligned far right can run as reform on fake populism and win, then all bets are off.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Where in Europe? General strikes are illegal in Germany

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm from Italy. Here general strikes are common. I know that France also goes strong on strikes.

    I'm surprised they're illegal in Germany. You should fight to change that.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    They should have a general strike demanding the right to general strikes.

    I don't see how it's enforceable, you don't have to picket, just no one shows up for work at that same time, what are they going to do?

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  • [–] 64 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    That is a very short amount of time to organize a nation.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Read up. Last Friday was no purchases, this friday is no work and no purchases. This is not a short term thing (unless we decide to have a general strike with clear demands soon.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    It’s also ineffective in the short term as a strike, because the rich will just wait it out. One day of slightly lower productivity isn’t going to grind things to a halt. What makes a strike powerful is that it continues until grievances are remedied. A true strike takes months or even years to organize, and it takes a lot of unionized money to keep people from going broke during an extended strike. After all, the strikers need to be able to wait out the rich and powerful. Those union dues are largely to allow the union to pay striking workers.

    However, with all of this being said, this kind of thing is good for normalizing strikes. America largely doesn’t strike. But if you can establish a new normal for protests, it makes the larger things much much easier to organize in the long term.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    This sounds like a wildcat strike to me. Not perhaps the most effective means to an end, but important when there's no other outlet. A good outcome may be establishing better unions. The mere threat of a strike should have capital shaking in their boots.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    This is what I commented elsewhere. We dont even need organized strikes. We need organized tech classes to get the general public out of the hands of the technofacist oligarchy. The reason they have power is 98% of the population is addicted to x, fb, insta, and being spied on their google phones 24/7 for ad revenue and surveillance, and people are fucking stupid about technology. They have no idea the billionaire corporations glean off them from their ignorant use of their phones.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    If people keep striking every Friday it will be noticed. Sure, it won't be as impactful as striking every day, but it starts a good foundation to build on while having some immediate impact.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    It doesn't make sense to me, I honestly doubt retailers will even notice.

    Everyone who does actually participate will just buy their stuff the day before or the day after.

    An ongoing boycott of a specific vendor makes much more sense to me. Easier for everyone to do, and more impactful.

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  • [+] 19 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    ignore webadict. since the strike is for 🇺🇲gov, do not do business with them, or contractors working with the government. You can continue your business with comrades involved in the strike.

    if when you can donate, do so.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    You close down for the day and don't buy anything. It's quite clearly spelled out: No work. No school. No shopping.

    Any other questions?

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  • [+] 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Your business does not create money from nowhere. You buy things, and you sell things. You are part of a bigger economy, and you are striking that.

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  • [+] 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I suppose the any other questions bit was unnecessary, but I was trying to point out that it was listed in the post in a rather humorous way. I apologize because it does sound a bit snarkier than intended. Sorry.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    In your defense, it's kind of a dumb question. Whether you own your business or not, if you're trying to participate, you don't work. It's that simple... (Sorry if you see this, OP)

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  • [–] 141 points 9 months ago (30 children)

    I'm all for protesting in any way possible but a general strike in three days seems really ambitious. Most strikes take months to arrange since people will need to stock up on food and household items or they risk the strike ending before the strikers get their demands.

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  • [–] 142 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    These kinds of strikes are intended to be short term, it's a single day strike. It's not about stopping work until demands are met, yet. It's about proving to those in charge that there are enough people in agreement that the next step will be much more costly if things don't change.

    Sometimes they are smart enough to get the message, other times they either think they're smarter because they are narcissistic or inherently will win because of money.

    At this level though if you actually manage to coordinate an effective strike day, what you usually end up with is hundreds or thousands of smaller organizations that can't survive and prolonged strike siding with the strikers and getting changes made, because the cockweasels at the top still rely on the smaller companies they stepped on to get there.

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  • [–] [S] 51 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    That's how I see this as well. It's a shot across the bow much like the one day strike in MN.

    Many people in the US have no experience participating in this sort of thing. I hope that this is a wake up call for the citizenry as much as for the corporations and oligarchs running the country.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    The problem with a "shot across the bow" is that to the enemy it can just look like you are missing and wasting ammo.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Yes, a warning shot does rely somewhat on the intelligence of the opponent. But that is their problem.

    In this analogy, though, if you even get 10% participation in a one-day cessation of economic activity, that is something the companies and therefore the governments notice. It is not something they want to repeat, or get more popular participation. It is in fact better than a warning shot in that respect. It is an attack on the money.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I think you are ascribing a lot more importance to 10% than economists and capitalists do.

    Nearly 60% of of day to day spending is by the top percentage of the wealthiest. I am trying to be a realist here. The bottom 60% of Americans make up about 20% of the spending, 10% participation would be about a 4% change in profit which recent Tariffs have been higher and more impactful.
    It is not a good idea to keep purposefully missing while the enemy isn't wasting their shots. Cause they are landing most of theirs.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    You're talking about a boycott. A strike is people refusing to work

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    And yet most of the comments in here are talking about doctors appointments and going out for dinner. I am confusing it but it seems I'm not alone in that.

    We are not in the right crowd to organize a strike, which would be better with actual business owners involved, but I understand we should get what we can.

    Why is it so bad to take an honest look at what we are trying to accomplish and our methodology? I thought Lemmy liked science and actual data. I'm peer reviewing this so we can adjust the methodology and try to focus better.
    I want to succeed I am just not gonna pretend we get there without effort.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    How much food do you need to eat in 24 hours that this is a concern for you?

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    That’s not the concern. A 24 hour strike isn’t a strike. That’s a protest. Most strike last for days or weeks because you want to get something out of the strike.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    A general strike doesn't last for weeks. A strike and a general striker different things.

    Striking workers are trying to change business decision, but if everyone participates in a general strike it causes enough damage in a day that it's effective. The threat is you'll do it again if things don't improve.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    General strikes are illegal in the US. The people coordinating them could be arrested. Also, jobs can fire workers on the spot for participating in them, even if the workers are part of a union and the union want to participate. There are no protections for this. Not to mention, national guards have been sent in to shut down general strikes in the past. There's a reason they never happen. The likelihood of one ever succeeding is highly unlikely considering the current situation. Doing it multiple days? You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck? Nobody wants to tell their kids they're going to be homeless.

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    General strikes are illegal in the US.

    It's not illegal to strike on a date with other people. It's illegal for unions to call for a "general strike" because it's considered them calling a strike on behalf of other non-union employees for other businesses.

    Also, jobs can fire workers on the spot for participating in them

    Not always, (though yes, it would probably be likely for many people) since they can use things like sick/vacation days conveniently timed right, or if they're backed up by a union, they might have a contract that helps to prevent at-will firing without certain specific causes, excluding striking.

    However, if enough people strike, it's kind of hard to enforce coming into work via firings, as it's similar to if an entire unionized company goes on strike. What are you gonna do? Fire every single worker and shut down for good the next day because the only person running every single operation is the remaining CEO?

    even if the workers are part of a union and the union want to participate.

    As long as the union doesn't say "this is a general strike" and just says "we are striking on this date for better working conditions", and that date happens to be the same day other unions are striking, it's legal. There is no law preventing different unions from striking on the same dates, and it would take very long for any legal process to try and make that claim before the strike has already occurred.

    national guards have been sent in to shut down general strikes in the past.

    This is the most likely outcome in my opinion. However, it's still kind of hard to actually enforce the end of a general strike. It's one thing to arrest someone, or to stop them from doing a given thing, but it's another to forcibly remove people from their homes and make them work no matter their condition or reason.

    Essentially, I'm saying it'd be messy.

    Doing it multiple days? You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck? Nobody wants to tell their kids they’re going to be homeless.

    This is the biggest hurdle, though there is a degree to which it can be mitigated, at least for a little while. For example, there are a lot of people with backyard and community gardens, small businesses with stockpiles that are willing to support their community as we've seen with the current situation in Minnesota, not to mention that if the situation got bad enough you'd probably just see people stealing from their nearest billionaire-owned store because fuck it, why not screw them over more?

    To clarify, I'm not like, disputing your actual overarching thesis here, or saying a general strike is easy or likely to succeed, I'm just saying it's not entirely impossible :)

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    By all means, people should try. Not saying people shouldn't. The mountain to overcome fascism isn't going to get any smaller as we dive deeper into it. And a strike wouldn't even have to happen in every area or even every state. It just has to happen enough to shut stuff down across the US. I just worry that most things tend to start out small and grow with time. For all of the reasons I stated, this can't start out small. It has to start loud and strong. If it starts out small, it will get crushed in a way that scares people away from trying again.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    since they can use things like sick/vacation days conveniently timed right

    American workers live in such a different world. Not once in my 34 years on earth would it have occurred to me to go on sick leave or spend one of my holidays on strike. Absolutely insane.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    General strikes are illegal

    This is fucked up beyond belief. Strikes should be a right for every single worker

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    Apparently this just applies to unions and federal workers, though. At least as it was written in the Taft–Hartley Act of 1947. But yeah, the fact that it's illegal for unions to call for general strikes is indeed fucked up beyond belief. Unions are an essential part of organizing strikes.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Going homeless at the same time as many others opens the possibility to make communities helping each other out (food, protection, communication).

    I know, it is wishful thinking, but building such communities in a peaceful way during a general strike with enough time is better than a sudden brutal civil war scenario, I think.

    You won’t get food easy if you have to fear getting shot as soon as you leave your house and they can’t run companies efficiently only with AI and MAGA workers.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    You realize most people live paycheck to paycheck?

    Yes, that's why it takes months to organize a normal strike, let alone a general strike. A one day strike isn't a stike, it's a protest.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    The difficult thing is people need to organize it outside of work. If management gets wind of that kind of stuff, they can fire and replace any workers they know are participating long before it actually happens.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    That's highly illegal if we're going by the NLRA.

    Now whether those companies get a wrist slap for firing people in today's political climate? That's a different question entirely but firing someone for striking or organizing a strike has been illegal for almost a century.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    In a right to work state, they don't need to give a reason. Any rules against firings are pretty much unenforceable, and the company is considered innocent unless proven guilty.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    They don't need to give a reason but if a company fires someone who is organizing a strike and that person has been a decent employee then the labor board is going to side with the person, not the company since it's obvious why they were fired. Amazon keeps getting in trouble for this exact thing. Which is why amazon et al are trying to get the NLRB dismantled.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Right to work laws make it so workers in a union shop don't need to join the union.

    Are you thinking of at-will employment? It's a common mixup.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    While that's true, every state except for Montana has at-will employment. Despite that, unions often negotiate contract requirements that effectively guarantee job security. But if you live in a right to work state, chances are there isn't even an option to join a union at your job, giving you no means of collective bargaining.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Doing a quick search...looks like about half the states are "right to work" ones.

    And...well, I don't live in a 'right to work' state, but I couldn't join a union either way. There aren't many unions in my line of work.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I have a doctor's appointment on Friday. But I can avoid going out for dinner or groceries.

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  • [+] -15 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    So... you think there will be people working at your doctor's office on a day of a General Strike? This is very entitled attitude. I mean, I get it, I am a nurse and I anticipate the general public will rely on our ethical code to ensure emergency rooms are staffed as well as the other inpatient floors so people in need for acute health care will have beds and care. However, what if we just don't show up? There is a nurses' strike in NYC, staff from major hospital systems are not showing up for work. There is a plethora of temporary healthcare employee agencies recruiting strike crossers -- some for almost $200/hr. Why can't those hospitals just pay their nurses? They are certainly able to pay these scabs.

    I wonder if you expect the police, teachers, garbage collectors and firemen to also show up for their jobs to continue to make your life smooth and safe? That is an antithesis of a general strike's impact. Some of you realize your jobs are really unimportant, the rest of us have to carry society and humanity.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago*

    Some of you realize your jobs are really unimportant

    Don’t “police, teachers, garbage collectors and fireman” kinda rely on other professions to do their jobs? Why do you need to put other workers down? Pretty sure as a teacher I relied on a school bus driver to get the students to me, an HVAC guy to make sure that the building was comfortable, architects and construction workers to create the building, electricians……….

    The comments you are leaving seem to me like compassion fatigue and burnout.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    So… you think there will be people working at your doctor’s office on a day of a General Strike? This is very entitled attitude.

    They texted me today reminding me of the session, and also reminding me that I still have to pay if I don't show up to my appointment at this point. Also my health issue seriously needs to be addressed.

    3 days notice is not a lot of time. And the doctor is holding me accountable to my side of the agreement that I made prior to this strike being announced, my only option is to pay for the treatment, whether I receive it or not. What's with the personal attack? I said I would refrain from work, and shopping of any form. I feel like I'm doing what I can under the limited notice. I have a long workday tomorrow, but am still preparing to buy groceries after work to avoid spending anything on Friday.

    Why can’t those hospitals just pay their nurses? They are certainly able to pay these scabs.

    what does this have to do with 3 days notice of a one day strike? What does this have to do with your hostility directed at me?

    Some of you realize your jobs are really unimportant, the rest of us have to carry society and humanity.

    I am not in a great headspace mentally, and you attacking me, acting like I'm one of those people that is ignoring everything that's going on, it's hurtful and counter productive. I'm doing the best that I can.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Take care of yourself and do what you think is right. Judging the other posts of the person your replied to they're just there to spread division. Don't feed the trolls, they're probably getting fed enough on the Russian troll farm already.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    honestly where the fuck r the unions? we need them

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    literally illegal in the US for unions to call for a general strike, its insane

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    [–] 38 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Ysk, this isn't a general strike. It's a protest, at best.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    A general strike is much longer.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Do you have a copy of the rule book by chance?

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  • [+] 19 points 9 months ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    With the amount of indoctrination that has happened in the US, it makes sense that most don't know how to adequately protest or strike.

    At this point in time, it finally appears people are slowly understanding protests as a means to signify discontent. However, the line remains blury as to what is a protest and what is a strike.

    A general strike should leave a long lasting mark resulting from halting of the economy - but a single day will only reinforce the fact that strikes which are effectively just protests aren't going to work.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Even if the unions aren't involved, this is a walkout/boycott, not a general strike.

    There need to be actual demands before life returns to normal for the government to feel actual pressure.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)
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