cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/36712639

Ubisoft's first North American union, located at their Halifax, Nova Scotia studio, was certified on December 18th, 2025. Now, not even a full 30 days later, Ubisoft Halifax is closing.

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[+] 360 points 10 months ago (36 children)
  • [–] 194 points 10 months ago (32 children)

    Capital would rather burn everything down than lose a penny to the working class. Yes in this example, highly paid developers are considered working class relative to billionaire owners

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  • [–] 87 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    I like to think that we're all working class, and that to subdivide classes further benefits only the capital

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  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Yes in reality, like 90% of people are working class, but I just wanted to make that designation for anyone reading it and going "software engineers aren't working class". I mean it in the more general working class vs capital owners.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Anyone who cannot stop working and live off their own wealth (and not rely on the working income of others) for the rest of their lives is, by definition, working class.

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    please be nice to the rich 'working class' They're 'just like you'!

    They don't live week by week, they have thousands to tens of thousands of dollars of disposable income per month.

    No, I'm not going to treat them the same as my fellow lower classes.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    That's a mistake. If you treat them as your equal then you can make then see they aren't special or "middle class" and then you have another pair of hands to help the working class.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    That's well natured but naive.

    Richer 'working class' already do shit on the poorer classes, they already punch down with ferocity.

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  • [–] 35 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    highly paid developers

    Not in the games industry, lol

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago

    Just making the distinction that both blue and white collar workers are all still the working class generally. Colloquially, "working class" can be used more to mean blue collar workers, but in my context I mean anyone not in the capital ownership class.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    Really? I always assumed they made more than developers in the “enterprise” world.

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Noooo, not even close. There may be some senior devs in AAA studios making bank, but the vast majority of people doing the day-to-day art and development work on games typically get much worse pay and benefits than similar roles in other parts of the tech sphere.

    A lot of people are very passionate about making games, and the games industry heavily exploits that passion to short change its workers. A lot of (mostly young) devs are willing to accept less pay to work on games because they feel like it will be more fulfilling than working on other mindless corporate crap, and those who do get jobs in the industry are afraid to ask for more money or try to unionize because they know there are a dozen equally passionate candidates waiting to replace them for less money if they make too many waves.

    The result is that wages stay lower than other tech jobs and hours worked are much higher. With AI on the rise the problem will no doubt get even worse as execs use it as an excuse to shrink teams and "do more with less".

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    That’s interesting. Because writing code for 3D graphics is way more complicated than writing an SQL query or some input form UI. I assumed those devs are super skilled and hence paid accordingly.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    Gaming industry relies on game devs being super passionate about it, so they can pay them less.
    My game dev friends almost all got out of it because they weren't paid well and had to crunch all the time.

    In corporate software you get paid well and just hate the work you do.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    On the flip side, errors in 3D graphics typically won't cost a company millions, while errors in an SQL query very well might

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    It's not by chance that for example the Investment Banking industry pays a lot more money to developers than the wider IT industry - a system breaking down for an hour or two there can cost millions because, for example, trader's can't actually trade certain assets.

    Generally the more money that depends on their systems being functional without errors or interruptions, the more an industry is willing to pay for devs.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    Not to mention generally enterprise devs aren’t beholden to public launch dates set externally by publishers and therefore end up burning out really fast trying to make a deliverable happen. Not saying that doesn’t happen elsewhere in software, but it’s really common in the games industry

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Devs are working class

    Because they actually work on products literally, they're the base of their profession with pretty much nobody under them bar a few juniors if any

    I fear the day when being a dev like me becomes so normal I make minimum wage and can't afford anything anymore... It's seriously terrifying to realize I worked and learned all this time and it may be for nothing in like 10 years..

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    lol that day is coming sooner than you'd think, I think 10 years is being generous tbh

    You should learn a highly niche specialization within SWE if you don't already have one (that's what I have). That will be overtaken by AI too, but it'll give you more runway at least.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (4 children)

    Yea... I definitelly need to do that...

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    If I were in your shoes (and I am), I would start trying to blindly use AI to do various aspects of my job (and I have).

    The results are laughable.

    There are things that I do that AI can do. Stupid, boring, uninteresting things. In particular, AI excels at doing things I already wrote a simple Bash script to do for me a decade ago.

    Seriously, I encourage everyone to give it a try.

    Let's all build that passion project we've been dreaming of and host it for the world to enjoy.

    In the best case, the world has a happy little passion project chugging away being useful.

    In the worst case, we learn what AI cannot do yet, and realize we can still keep charging people for our labor for a few more years (and decades and centuries).

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    To repurpose The Fermi Paradox, if AI allows anyone to easily make a useful product, then where are they all?

    Is that The AI Fermi Paradox?

    E: obviously this is the FermAI Paradox.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    I mean, at least you always have those supple wrists to fall back on.

    I hope more people do follow this advice, though. It's always a joy to discover people's little passion projects. They make life richer for the rest of us.

    Currently working on an Ubi-style game set in Middle-Earth. Maybe my niece and I will be the only ones to enjoy it, but I'm ok with that.

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  • [–] 24 points 10 months ago

    Higher wage working class is working class. If your income doesn't come from owning things, if you put in work to get your income, you are working class. Division among ourselves only weakens us.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    If your income comes mainly from your work, you're Working Class (even if you own you own business), if your income comes mainly from the money made by the money you have (in assets or even "investments") you're Owner Class.

    Certainly, modern politics only ever divides people in those two classes, with mainstream parties generaly only working for the good of the Owner Class which is how you end up with falling salaries in real terms and growing Asset valuations in the form of bubbles on all kinds of assets, most notably stocks and realestate (notice how most mainstream politicians see the rising of both stockmarkets and house prices - tough of late, they don't say it about the latter quite as openly - as being good things).

    The single greatest scam of modern Neoliberal Capitalism was making people who own their means of production - sometimes only partially or not really because they're in debt for it - but still have to work for a living think they're not Working Class and hence Neoliberal Capitalism is actually working for their benefit.

    If there is one thing that around a decade working for the Finance Industry has taught me, is that almost all government policies are directed to help those who make money from having money make even more money, which is why, for example, plenty of countries have lower taxes on income from "investments" than on income from "work", when the fair thing would be the other way around since the former is parasitical so lower taxes on it just induces more economic actors to engage in non-productive, extractive economic activities.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    how highly paid are we talking? I doubt they're making 200k

    keep in mind that Canadian tech sector wages are not on par with american - as a rough rule, just keep the dollar value and change the currency (i.e. 100k USD salary is 100k CAD salary)

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  • [–] 53 points 10 months ago

    “we’d rather amputate that entire source of revenue than pay workers fairly”

    Oh come now, Its not just about money.

    Its about making sure frat boy culture of sexual harassment and assault continue unabated.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago

    "hey know how we cut a few developers loose and they created an iconic video game without our oversight? Should we do that again and forsake all profits and consumer goodwill a second time??"

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  • [–] 160 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Wow, a whole unionized and competent studio now free to pursue internally chosen productions? I sure hope they don't get some of those "Canadian Heritage" media subsidies. Seriously though this is the shit the state should be funding, it'd be a shame to have this kind of resource squandered.

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  • [–] 131 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    If the Canadian government were real it would exact punishing fines on the company's Canadian held assets in response to this. And I don't mean cost of business fees, I mean hurtful costs, because these giant fucking companies seriously damage Canadian lives when they just rugpull the labour after making massive profits of Canadian operations. There is no justifiable reason to side with Ubisoft or their scumsucking management here.

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

    I completely agree. This isn't so much a failure of business; it's a failure of the government to properly hurt businesses that enact policies that hurt workers and consumers. And in democratic countries with voters, it's also the failure of the voters.

    This is why we need people like Lina Khan to be given much more power in society. There are good, liberal economists out there who understand that if you don't regulate externalities, then market systems will cause extreme disfunction in society. Smart economists understand this, elite rich people understand it, the problem is that the bottom tier of society that is ignorant and believes in religious myths is easily deceived by the upper classes.

    The result is a society with progressively more unequal wealth distribution, rapidly descending into environmental hell, with a public that is mostly confused, religious, and idioticly upset about market conditions, but glad the evil trans girl won't be able to play softball.

    All of these issues are part of the same problem: how do you convince the poor and stupid to not get tricked by the elite again? But perhaps it's just impossible. After all, the poor are mostly religious and believe in crazy things like virgin births and flat earth... Until the poor reject such lunacy, or society becomes so awful that they are compelled to reject it, there's really not much hope for change.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Genuinely, invest in education and you can resolve a lot of this in one fell swoop. I firmly believe that a large part of the reason the US is in its current state is because of the systematic cuts to our education system which have been happening for damn near half a century (fucking Reagan). Invest in the youth, give them the critical thinking and media literacy skills needed to draw their own conclusions, and I think you’ll have made significant progress on the issue.

    Easier said than done, though, I’ll admit, and it’s a plan that operates on a pretty goddamn long timeline - a much longer one than the current critical situation is likely to allow us.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    This is a great point. Specifically an increase in economic education required of students would be helpful, including helpful for things like understanding environmental science, because externalities and environmental science and regulation have overlap that most don't understand.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Well put all around, and in response to your final point, I'm really not sure. I want to say this is the value of public education, but I don't recall a terribly strong effort to educate people in common sense and media literacy so as to not be manipulated so easily, and end up voting against our own best interests back when I was in the system. Still, I had access to better education than most young people do today.

    I think that lackluster regulation of media really is failing us too, since any billionaire can just buy up a large organization and dictate what it will and will not report on, and how it aims to persuade people in out society. All of this requires rooting out apathy and corruption in our governing public servants, and strengthening regulation, and every day I see more of the exact opposite of that. It's hard to tell what the endpoint is that's going to force a turn-around, if such a thing even exists beyond a systemic collapse that strips the power to manipulate the systems of governance from the ultra-rich.

    Generally that means terrible suffering for all, and I'd much rather see a better path, like, oh I don't know, massive taxation of enormous and excessive private wealth. Until I see politicians willing to take meaningful actions to resist and confront oligarchy, and a general public developing more self-awareness, I'll continue to believe that outcome seems like a pipe dream.

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  • [–] 86 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    My 10+ year long Ubisoft boycott still looking like a good idea.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I started to Boycott Ubisoft when they started online DRM checks for single player games that you could not play offline anymore. It was with the release of Assassins Creed 2 and I think it was Settler 7. That was about 16 years ago.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I started to boycott Ubisoft when I can't think of a single game of theirs I would even want to play.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    I really wanted to play Watch Dogs when it came out. Unfortunately they also publish a lot of games. They have some cool titles ngl, but I pull through.

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  • [+] 81 points 10 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Eh, we are already unionized in France. The difference is we have laws protecting workers so they can't just shut a studio down willy nilly.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    So do we in Canada... But that doesn't mean that they are enforced

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Ok so did they organize and sue the company?

    Cuz enforcement usually requires more work such as a class action suit. Lawyers aren’t just jumping out there suing companies and filing the paper work to protect workers all on their own. There’s usually at least one person organizing it.

    So who’s the person who got let go at Ubisoft that got it started?

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  • [–] 78 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Right... They closed it as a "cost-cutting measure" and "not because the studio unionized". This is where the lawmakers are just letting everyone know that they are garbage to be walked all over. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that "cost-cutting" a studio that just unionized is because they unionized, because a union means they have to start paying their workers their fair share, which means "higher costs" to them, when it should've been like that from the start.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    How does this sort of thing usually get handled in Canada anyway?

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago

    A lot of the reasons unions form in the USA are mitigated by Canadian labour laws. So you generally only see them in large work forces such as government employees, school teachers, and trades. People already get severance pay based on length of employment for getting fired without cause. If you're laid off you can get EI (60% wages from gov't).

    So to answer your question... nothing probably -though I am speculating. Unless they did something egregious they likely broke no laws.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Anti-union industry is vast.

    You have advisors that have preprepared media statements, threats, worker conditioning propaganda, etc.

    But ultimately it's the govs issue not to enforce the law.

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  • [–] 138 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Ubisoft is just seeding their own demise.

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  • [–] 71 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    They weren't my favorite studio before, but they're definitely never getting another dime from me. There's a lot of fish in the sea.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Ubisoft has been utter shir for more than a decade.

    I used to love Prince of Persia, I tried to play Warrior Within half a year ago, that's how much I love it.

    But it hasn't been the same, it's just generic shit all over the place.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Have you played the two new prince of Persia games? They are very good. But not the same gameplay as the ps2 classics.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Ubisoft asked the Rayman team (who have produced some of the best platformers) to develop Prince of Persia The Lost Crown, regarded as the best metroidvania of 2024.

    It failed to meet sales expectations, so they disbanded the teams and cancelled the sequel.

    Turns out gamers™️ do vote with their wallets, and they vote for churned out sequels.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    It amazes me that anyone played any far cry or assassins creed game in the last 10 years and went "yes this is a good game". All they make is bare minimum surface level crap and it's been that way for a loooooong time.

    For Honor was their last good game.

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  • [–] 114 points 10 months ago
    [–] 50 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Whelp, I already de facto boycotting Ubisoft since I'm a patent gamer. Guess I'll actively boycott them now.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Patent gamer?

    You only play original ideas?

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  • [–] 80 points 10 months ago (17 children)

    As far as I'm concerned, unionization should be government mandated for every company everywhere in every industry.

    But unfortunately we live in hell.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    That's the way it works in France (and other EU countries, I assume?). We literally have to have a workers reprensative council past a certain number of employees.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I live in Germany. Here its not mandated to have a workers representative council, but you are entitled to be allowed to make one. A workers representative council is distinct from a union, though.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    I get where you're coming from but unions should not be mandated, they need to be formed for the actual workers that want things to change for the better. Just look at Sweden for a good example of how to implement unions at almost all workspaces without the need for the state to be involved.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    By not getting the state involved at all. All negotiations happens between the workers and the companies with about 88% of workers in Sweden having a collective agreement. All workers also have the right legally to join or start a union and unionbusting is illegal. If the company doesn't want a collective agreement it usually results in strikes such as the ongoing one against Tesla that has been going on since 2023.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    "Doesn't need government" proceeds to name gov protection

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Was a bit tired when writing the comment, should have been adjusted to minimal involvement as the main procedures should still be between workers and companies with the state just guaranteeing that these procedures can take place at all.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The pinkertons have entered the chat

    Don't worry, the America's free market provides many paramilitary groups to shutdown those pesky unions and curious journalists. No need for government involvement!

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Damn, didn't even know about those. Starting to sound like the US is just majorily fucked up with how they perceive the neverending chase for more profits (and money in the owners pockets). The problem still with government involvement is that it can then just as easily be removed and you're back on square one. I'm not well informed enough about the US to actually give any valid input on how you would actually solve this.

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    [–] 39 points 10 months ago
    [–] 33 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The open corruption and lack of empathy for the working class is just embarrassing. I hate EVERY company now since they only care about shares. They don't even consider us as human, we are simply just tools for them and can be thrown away at any moment.

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