Archive links: https://web.archive.org/web/20251229233408/https://bsky.app/profile/goldengateblond.bsky.social/post/3mb5t23bf3k23 or https://archive.is/uvuWB

If you want to vote by mail please do so as soon as you can and consider dropping it off at the counter where they will postmark it right away.

Also if you live in a state where you're allowed to photograph your ballot consider doing so to have proof you voted a certain way.

Note that as a counterpoint the federal register website claims they are just clarifying language to improve public understanding: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/08/12/2025-15266/postmarks-and-postal-possession

I didn't check that document very closely yet.

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[–] 107 points 10 months ago

If you want to vote by mail please do so as soon as you can and consider dropping it off at the counter where they will postmark it right away.

Even then you have to request it. The term you need to ask for is "hand canceling". The USPS worker will take a handheld ink stamp and mark over the postage stamp with the received date. That letter is now "processed" as received by the post office.

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  • [–] 97 points 10 months ago

    They've cheated before, they'll do it again. It's like playing whack-a-mole trying to get around it.

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  • [–] 78 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    This is also going to wreak havoc with documents sent for any purpose that may be litigated, or legal in nature.

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  • [–] 69 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    If you don't know when it is going to be stamped, then you cannot possibly plan accordingly. Trying to be early to get around the unreliable time frame isn't planning accordingly, it is just guessing.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Especially when they're sure to find ways to demolish post office processing times around election seasons specifically to kill mailed in ballots.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    This isn't relevant, even when we've been slammed local offices separate the ballots and bring them to a hub or county seat if it's within a week of an election. Postal workers actually care about doing their jobs.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    It isn't relevant, yet, but we're seeing changes in how these things are made to work that are decidedly deleterious to the reliability of mail in voting, and you're deluded if you think they're going to stop now. Even questions of legality are at best peripheral to this administration, more interference WILL be coming, and it won't be something that Postal workers simply caring about their jobs will be able to resolve.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Postal workers actually care about doing their jobs.

    Next step will be to get rid of those people by any means possible...

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago*

    There's a sort of inertia within the organization, you both can't get rid of those people nor make them care more than they currently do. I think management has been trying to kill them off for decades. :)

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  • [–] 39 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Right now, first class mail to homes in the Chicago area is taking two WEEKS to arrive due to holiday increases. I don't think it'd be this bad at tax or voting deadlines, but it's good to know what kind of variability you can expect, especially with all of the changes made to the US postal service since 2017.

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  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Weeks? Fucking how? I work at a post office and today our OIC was running around with her hair on fire because the mail was three days late on one route.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    It's Illinois, so there are a lot of politics in play that aren't usually an issue in most of the US. If someone in charge of my post office snubbed the wrong person at a work event, it wouldn't be surprising if the snub-ee did things like moving money around to stop an order of new mail trucks from being deployed to our routes. (That's not a democrat or republican thing, it's an Illinois political machine thing.)

    However, bigger political issues come into play, too. When DeJoy first took over, people in parts of my House district weren't getting mail at all. He was removing mail sorting machines from post offices, for cryin' out loud. Apartment buildings had package dumps that the residents had to comb through to hopefully find their stuff, if it hadn't been stolen. Letters and packages were getting delayed or lost and being reported as delivered. (I've had at least one package get reported as delivered that showed up in my mailbox a week later, but a two-day delay between report and delivery is much more common.) People getting government checks and medication in the mail were left waiting for things that might or might not show up, no indicators of where they were, and nobody to ask for a status update. Just "item delivered at mailbox/front door" and nothing.

    Ten years ago, it was $0.49 to mail a first class letter that would be delivered, pretty reliably, in about three days. Now that services have been "brought more into line with existing services" like FedEx and UPS, it's $0.78 and shows up whenever.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    got any resources you'd recommend, for someone trying to "catch up" on Illinois politics in particular?

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    I don't have any suggestions, I'm sorry. It's something you hear about from other people who have lived here longer and just kind of observe happening to you and around you through daily life, the news, and Wikipedia rabbit holes. My favorite depiction of the Machine is in the show South Side. I have no idea how true to life it is, but they capture the spirit of Chicago politics really well.

    Lol back in 2019-2020, I volunteered with Marie Newman's campaign. She was a progressive Democrat running for the House of Representatives, Illinois District 3, as a challenger to the incumbent Dan Lipinski (also a Democrat, but a socially conservative blue dog Dem, so he voted against things like abortion and health care). Here's the thing about Dan Lipinski: he basically inherited the position from his father and kept it for seven terms. How does that work? Rep. Bill Lipinski ran for re-election in the Dem primary, won it, and then retired. He talked the IL Democratic Party into replacing him with his son on the election ballot. Here in northern Illinois (I don't know how far the political machine reaches out from Chicago), the dem races are the only races because nobody up here votes republican. (Sidenote: Chuy Garcia, a progressive Representative from IL-4, got reprimanded last month for doing something similar: on the day of the deadline to register for the ballot, he waited until there were only a few hours left and announced his retirement. His chief of staff stepped forward as the only Dem eligible to register because she had already collected all the signatures she needed.)

    With that background in mind, let's get back to my anecdote! I was volunteering for this upstart campaign and I come into the office to all this chatter one day. It was a week or so until the primary, and even busier than expected, so I asked another volunteer what was up. They were trying to catch up on stuff they'd had planned for the previous day, when they'd been unable to work because someone from Lipinski's campaign physically cut power to the office. If I remember correctly, the power cut was only to the section of the building where Newman's campaign office and a couple others were, the kind of disruption that took some research to pull off. A breaker getting flipped could've been fixed in minutes, maybe an hour if it took that long for someone to go and check it. The power line was cut and getting a line worker to do the repair took them the whole day. Despite the Democratic machine's best efforts, Newman won the seat. She held it right up until 2023, when they gerrymandered it out from under her.

    You do not defy the Machine.

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  • [–] 39 points 10 months ago

    Majorly affects anyone who mails their tax forms

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    This will make it easier for nefarious parties to just hold onto mail as long as possible before stamping it.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Really, please just vote in person this time if you can.

    Unless you'll be intimidated by National Guard or ICE, in which case just vote as soon as possible.

    Really just vote as soon as possible anyway. We all know there's going to be illegal interference in the election. The question is to what extent and what kind. Do what you can to predict and avoid problems.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Some of the voter suppression involved having a single voting place for a large area, and closing it at 5pm even though there was a very long line of people still waiting to vote.

    If you can't guarantee your postal vote will be counted, and you can't guarantee that you'll get into a voting booth, what do you do?

    I agree with the sentiment of voting however you can. It's one of the few ways that people get to decide how the country is run. I'm just angry that this right is being gradually taken away.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (4 children)

    If you're in line you're guaranteed a vote

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    cali has official drop boxes, and polling places more safer to do that, weve have been doing that for a while. be aware there are attempts at using fake boxes during elections.

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Transcription:

    A post from bluesky stating "As of 12/24/25, USPS changed policy on when they postmark mail. Mail dropped off is no longer guaranteed a same-day postmark. Tax returns & other time-sensitive items are now stamped when they reach a regional processing center, which may be days later. Plan deadlines accordingly to avoid penalties." Another user commented on the post "this seems specifically designed to break mail-in voting (where deadlines are defined by postmark)".

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  • [–] 41 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    this seems specifically designed to break mail-in voting

    This is specifically for doing that. Processing centers will be understaffed in heavily Democratic areas, Republican strongholds will have mail that magically gets a stamp fifteen nanoseconds later. Republicans can literally not win without resorting to cheating.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    They don't even need to understaff them, that shit is all automated these days. Just manufacture a breakdown and voila.

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    They just need to ruin fucking everything.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    This will affect rural mail the most. Every bit helps.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    i doubt they care about rural voters, since Republicans tend to vote in person anyways, they will be okay with sacrificial lambs though.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    This mostly would harm older Republicans, but it's also not an actual change. Postmarks aren't applied on receipt unless you give your mail to a window clerk, FCM hasn't been next day guaranteed for a decade, and we separate out ballots if there's any time concern before it goes to a sorting facility.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I wonder what % of ballots are going to get thrown out.

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago

    This is also making the mail less reliable. The mail is a vital piece of the functioning of the country but they want to privatize it

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  • [–] 31 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    This isn't technically new, mail doesn't get a postmark stamp unless it's collected over the retail counter by clerks, and usually only on regular stamped mail (non-metered). If you had your mail in your mailbox with the flag up and is picked up by your carrier, it goes directly on the truck to the regional sorting facility and is processed and stamped there. Unless your mail comes directly from a regional sorting facility, it is not stamped at your local office if not handed in over the counter.

    However, with election ballots, we are instructed to have them separate from other outgoing mail, regardless of when it's picked up to be kept in office and delivered to the town hall/voting location the following day. This is the case with all 3 offices I've worked at, in 2 different regional areas. Only exception is if they're absentee ballots for other towns.

    Definitely drop a ballot off directly if you're cutting it close to election day to make absolutely sure it's counted in time though, and obviously, VOTE.

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  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I had a whole comment that got eaten up in an error (and a Lemmy client that doesn't fail gracefully, I really should be moving off of Sync). But maybe that'll be an opportunity to give a more concise summary of what's going on.

    https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/08/12/2025-15266/postmarks-and-postal-possession

    This USPS notice is basically correct. The meaning of postmarks isn't changing: it's a mark that definitely proves that mail was in the Postal Service's possession on that date. The absence of a mark doesn't mean the absence of possession, and the date of a mark does not foreclose the possibility that the mail was in the Postal Service's possession on an earlier date.

    It does note there are operational changes where they're now taking fewer trips in certain low volume zip codes, and that expands the number of places where postmarks are being applied on the next USPS operational day: usually the next day, but a second day if the next day is Sunday or a holiday, or a third day when the next day is a Sunday and the day after that is a Monday holiday.

    Someone mailing something may still request a same-day postmark from the postal facility they're dropping it off at, but that's not helpful if they're already past business hours or using an unattended outgoing mail box.

    Most importantly, though, it only has a small potential to affect voting.

    • Most states require ballots to be received by election day, and postmark day doesn't matter.
    • Even in states that look to postmarks, they still have a deadline to be received by a particular grace period, so you'll want to get the mail sent as early as possible anyway.
    • The Supreme Court just heard a case, and will rule by June, on whether states are even allowed to follow the postmark date instead of the received by date.
    • Election Day is on a Tuesday not near a holiday. So the operational changes will only add a single day to the postmark date, in the low population areas that don't deal with a lot of mail, for people who don't request a same day postmark from the post office.
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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago

    Yeah, I saw this getting spread around and facepalmed, I'm a carrier and it's basically not a change -- just logistics changes that can have an impact +/- a day. When first class mail went off the next day standard a few years ago is when this really changed, and it was about business efficiency and prioritizing packages. I also facepalm when I see ballots in outgoing the day before an election, but we run those separate to the county seat or a closer hub office to get them delivered on time.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Jesus Christ.. More bullshit conservative nonsense?? Come on.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    1117 days 5 hours 35 minutes to go until this administration ends

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    wait it's- it's only been one year of US's conservative administration?... fucking hell, i kept thinking to myself "wow, a lot has happened, thankfully that means a lot of time has passed, and a new government is going to get picked soon:)"

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (21 children)

    Interesting that this is even relevant in the US.

    Here in Germany the only relevant metric is whether a document has arrived at the recipient before any given deadline, from ballots to legal documents. It is considered your responsibility to ensure sending anything sufficiently early.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    Wow. That's subject to abuse though unless there is a maintained predictable transit time. Maintaining a timestamp for the handoff is a critical tracking metric.

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  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)

    How would it be subject to abuse¹? Deliveries are somewhat predictable, by law 95% of letters must arrive within 3 days, 99% within 4 days. Mail-in ballots "should" be delivered within 2 days.

    If it must arrive regardless of circumstances you can generally just send it via fax (except for mail-in ballots of course).

    Though this has also lead to some issues. Because the 2025 election was a snap election there was significantly less time for mail-in ballots to be sent. This caused issues for many expats living outside Germany and as a result, at least a couple thousand votes from 200,000 registered expats were probably discarded.

    Edit: ¹ any more than a system relying on the date on the postage stamp?

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    how would it be subject to abuse

    are you really struggling to understand how it could be subject to abuse lol maybe the person in charge of the post office lives in an area they know would vote a certain way so they give everyone a day off and the mail arrives too late to be counted

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (4 children)

    I still don't see how stamping immediately could reduce the risk of abuse.

    Anyone intent on doing so in a position of power can still do so. Maybe they have a stamp for a future date, maybe they "lose" certain mail, maybe they do not empty any of those election mail boxes the week before an election.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (3 children)

    you specifically said you dont see how it would be subject to abuse, not that [different thing than what i was talking about] is less risk prone

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, everything is subject to abuse. The relevant factor is the likelihood and difficulty of such abuse, isn't it? And I don't really see how using the stamped date as an authority reduces either or how not doing so increases either. The way you'd commit abuse changes, sure, but doesn't make abuse any easier/harder in my opinion, just different.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    again, youre just talking about something entirely different. you said you dont see how a certain system was subject to abuse and i made up a possible way. all this talk about some system being more or less subject to abuse than another has nothing to do with the fact you said you couldnt see how a certain system was subject to abuse. i am not making a claim about any system being better than another so i have no idea why youre bringing that up

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    How is that different from your current system, though? Couldn't the same postal worker just delay the stamping by one day, or stamp tomorrows date onto today's letters?

    The advantage of our system is, that we know the results in the night of the election. How would that work if letters arriving a week later would still count? On the other hand, we don't have such a huge problem with voter suppression as the US: No gerrymandering, no need to register to vote, polling stations are accessible at reasonable times without long queues etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Please don't imagined this couldn't happen. Germany is not without active political threats. When a system can be abused it's only a meter of time before it is.

    The difference is that in a system where the standard is set to postmarked upon arrival it requires an active deviation from protocol that is more discoverable and potentially an illegal offense. It's not bullet proof, but more difficult to manipulate intentionally or unintentionally on a large scale.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago*

    Intentionally delaying a mailing is already a crime in itself. And if you already have the power to shut down a mailing hub for a day or two without abyone noticing, I don't see how it would be more difficult to change the date in the stamping machine.

    I have no doubt that, when the Nazis come to power here as well, they will use all measures to suppress free voting. We of all people know how that works. But in that case, using the stamping date for mail-in voting won't stop them anyway, as that's a simple law, that can simply be changed by the people in power. Case in point: This very article about changing the postmark application rules. It seems, they didn't even have to change a law for that, just some USPS internal guidelines.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    how is what different than whos current system? i merely just gave a quick idea for how this one could be open to abuse and am making zero claims for any sort of postal system being better/worse than any other

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    how is what different than whos current system?

    The US system, using the date of the stamp instead of the arrival date. Neither system is safe from abuse. It's just different.

    Mail-in voting is inherently more error prone than voting in person. That's why it's important to make in person voting as accessible as possible. Voting on a Sunday, having plentiful accessible polling stations without significant waiting time surely helps, and is a reason why the share of voting by mail is traditionally way lower here in Germany than in the US. I never had to wait for more than 2 minutes at a polling station here in Germany.

    Have a nice new year's eve and guten Rutsch, as we say here.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    If a black* person hands in a letter to guarantee that it's received on time, and the worker is racist and believes it a tax form, they could just leave it for a few days/weeks before processing to guarantee that it's late.

    *Replace with any marginalised group or person. It could even include you.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    In Germany, you usually don't hand in letters, nor does the postman collect letters at your home. You throw them into a post box on the main street, which is emptied once or twice a day. So by the time the postal worker collects the mail they don't have any means to know who posted which letter.

    For really important mail you also have the option to use "Einschreiben" (registered mail) where the recipient has to sign that they received the letter.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Sure but you gotta remember, your system is run by Germans, we just have fucking Americans in charge of everything over here!

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    It's possible that American trains are more on-time to than German trains these days....

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    Nah, order and organization is a German thing, not a Nazi thing.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Here in Colorado we vote by mail, in person or, relevant to this development, we are allowed to drop a ballot into an actual ballot container. It's like a mailbox but only unlocked during elections.

    Great for suburbanites like me but in rural districts might be a bit of a hike.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    Election jurisdictions that accept ballots postmarked by Election Day but received after will face challenges, as the postmark date may reflect processing date rather than the date the ballot entered USPS possession.

    They'll just rely on delayed processing, or actively delay the processing.

    Anything to reduce democracy.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    everyone here is talking about elections, I'm thinking about taxes and time-sensitive forms. Hell, the company I work at accepts time-sensitive forms, we're now gonna have to discuss this in a meeting to see how we're gonna handle forms that come by mail after our deadline.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Read through this:

    https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/08/12/2025-15266/postmarks-and-postal-possession

    Postmarks don't end up on all mail, because certain types of mail do not require cancellation of a stamp.

    When there is a postmark, that is proof that the postal service was in possession of that piece of mail on that day. It does not prove that date was the earliest that the item came into the possession of the Postal Service, and does not foreclose the possibility that the Postal Service was in possession on an earlier date.

    For the big operational change being implemented, where zip codes more than 50 miles from a sorting facility get fewer trips and might not be sorted on the same day that the mailbox contents are retrieved, there will be a one-day delay on most days, a two-day delay on Saturdays or the day before a holiday (because they won't postmark on Sundays or holidays), or a three-day delay on Saturdays before a Monday holiday (because the Sunday plus holiday represents two consecutive days they don't sort mail).

    One easy thing to implement, for anyone whose procedures depend on the postmark, is to just move the latest allowable postmark to be the next business day after the deadline, between 1-3 days. Another could be to inform customers that if they live in one of the affected zip codes, they need to affirmatively ask for a same-day postmark at the retail location where they're dropping off the mail. That might require some additional driving to the actual post office instead of an unattended drop box, but in most places the latest pickup in a blue box is actually earlier than the time the nearest post office closes anyway.

    And I will say that I've gamed the system before, where I bought a barcode based stamp just before midnight from an automated postal machine, because those aren't postmarked at all, and most recipients incorrectly consider the purchase date on the stamp to be equivalent of the postmark date, so that I had a few extra hours to finalize an application past midnight that night.

    Just like with Social Security numbers, where Social Security Administration had to tell everyone "wait this number wasn't intended to be used in that way by others," this seems to be the USPS pushing back against certain assumptions on postmark dates.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    What's the fee for late forms? Or, more likely, late payments? Another way to squeeze a few bucks from poor people?

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    I dunno, my company doesn't handle money that way. The penalty for late forms is we don't accept the form. Typically, that meant everything postmarked after the due date was not allowed, but we accepted anything postmarked before or on the date even if it arrived later. Now we might have to ask for some kinda proof of submission if the date stamp becomes unreliable.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Like dejoy would do something like that …. Oh wait. Yes. Yes he would do something like that to appease daddy Trump and president musk.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    I predict the regional processing centres in blue states will have technical issues for weeks before and after the voting period.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    It's not a secret. Just nobody in any leadership position seems willing/able to do anything about it

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    The funny thing is they think Democrats are more using the mailing system. I'm pretty sure it's all of the older Republicans and Republicans in general that use the mail-in system far more. This is only going to hurt their base even more.

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