Considering the pickup EV has been an enormous commercial flop, only selling barely a fraction of Musk’s promised 250,000 to 500,000 Cybertrucks a year, there’s a good chance Tesla is using the mercurial CEO’s other venture to boost the numbers ahead of the end of an otherwise disastrous year.

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[–] 304 points 10 months ago (18 children)

Pretty sure this is illegal, you know, using one company to prop up another (the old “Enron” method)

Wish the US still I don’t know, had laws and whatnot

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Its shakey, but might be in the clear because SpaceX is still private and can do whatever it likes. If they went public too, then there would be a problem I think

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    If the US tries to enforce laws against Elon, he'll go on Twitter and starting calling for the break up of the United States like he did for the EU when they decided to enforce their laws

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    They can’t buy enough of these to weigh the collapsing market for them. They’ll be less than $50k.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    They will a hundred percent buy them at full price, in a big money transfer from space x to Tesla so muck can get his trillion dollar payday that was voted in

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  • [–] 81 points 10 months ago

    Ah, the AI business model...

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  • [–] [S] 94 points 10 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    THANK you. I can't even get excited about their successes knowing Musk is involved.

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  • [–] 40 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Elon is running the biggest Ponzi in history, financing on financing and counting both as the total. Eventually he won't be able to keep shuffling assets around and counting both, they will all collapse with nothing left and everyone will be shocked pikachu despite it being obvious.

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  • [–] 34 points 10 months ago

    Playing games with the shareholders. Giving tesla a boost by paying for it with spacex.

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  • [+] 32 points 10 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    Because it is :)

    EV subsidies are going away soon, so Elons putting some money fromone pocket to the other now, but also claims the subsidies so he's putting more money to that other pocket than he took out from the first pocket.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    Space x money is coming from government contracts too, that's an insane feedback loop of potential fraud.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (12 children)

    SpaceX bids on services that the government puts up for offer and wins with usually the lowest bid.

    What they do with that money as long as they provide the service is up to them. If they need some vehicles to haul gear, or want to provide vehicles to each employee that's up to them.

    There's no fraud from them buying them.

    Edit: also Starlink is their biggest revenue source nowadays and is profitable, they aren't solely funded off government contracts and investors anymore.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (11 children)

    They finally have decent revenue, a large percentage of that is consumer, but nearly half is still government contracts. It's notoriously hard to tell what amount the company is profitable because of how they move around the amount of money they burn on R&D.

    So some where around 50% of starlink, almost all of the rest of the business are relying on grants and bids.

    The cybertruck is both not selling to consumers and is extremely unreliable from a maintenance standpoint. So now Elon is moving money from one business, which is still majority funded by government money, to buy shitty cars no one wants from himself. That's not even adding in that he's been actually buying then himself image of Tesla as fleet vehicles. Like legit BUYING his own cars as fleet vehicles cause no one else will.

    It's bad.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (10 children)

    I mean sure, it doesn't look great, but it's not fraud.

    SpaceX is a private company buying vehicles that regardless of how you feel about them, are capable of towing things or being gifts to employees for the work they've done.

    SpaceX needs vehicles to tow things, and using an EV to help lower emissions would be a valid goal. They're also an all day portable 240v power source which I'm sure there are plenty of uses for in construction.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-2rjmL8MgY

    I'm not even sure if it would reach the level of fraud given they're a private company if they just let them sit on a lot for years then sold them at a loss as a used vehicle, but I imagine that would warrant their private investors suing for some breach of duty though

    Edit: Also you really need to separate sold services from government giving them money. Grants can be a different thing, but when the government pays them $100 million to launch a rocket, they get a $100 million and launch a rocket. It's not some sort of life line or subsidy. This is in general as well for sold services/contracts, not targeted at SpaceX. SpaceX survived early on because of these, but they were still selling a service the government wanted. Also, the government is saving 10's of billions of dollars using SpaceX vs alternatives.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    It looks bad cause it is, what Musk is doing with his companies has all the look of moving money around to hide losses, it's generally seen as a bad thing to amortize losses from one of your businesses to another (cybertruck), if shareholders cared there would be more lawsuits.

    You also see this with how the businesses are being consolidated around xai. It's a house of cards thats being held up by a government largess.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    I made an edit, you might have missed about the government side, but i'll just post it again here.

    You really need to separate sold services from government giving them money. Grants can be a different thing, but when the government pays them $100 million to launch a rocket, they get a $100 million and launch a rocket. It’s not some sort of life line or subsidy. This is in general as well for sold services/contracts, not targeted at SpaceX. SpaceX survived early on because of these, but they were still selling a service the government wanted. Also, the government is saving 10’s of billions of dollars using SpaceX vs alternatives.

    Nothing is being "held up by government largess" with SpaceX.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (7 children)

    I actually refuse to separate out any of that, that money which is coming from an entity which is getting provided that money by taxpayers is the primary funding. Those contracts for service or grants for research are all ultimately controlled by an entity who can either collapse to the point where that money is no longer available, or absorb the business in an authoritarian way, or simply put money behind a different billionaires infrastructure. By making it really hard for the last guy and really easy for the next guy, they really don't lose that much time.

    The real value of musk, the tesla stock price, was based on having a near monopoly on cars and charging, that's been mixed to AI and humanoid robots. One of which doesn't turn a profit and the other of which doesnt exist.

    Space X, the only company that produces anything of value in Musks portfolio only exists because of tax payer money.

    Dude is on thin ice, it's getting thinner, and the American government will be under it when it falls to screw him just as hard as it helped him.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago* (6 children)

    I actually refuse to separate out any of that,

    Well, as long as that's your stance you're always going to be misinformed or angry about things.

    This is a garbage in garbage out situation.

    You've painted yourself into this garbage corner where you can't/won't accept something, and that cascades to your entire view on the topic.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Lmao, I don't agree with your premise for specific reasons and now you want to guilt trip me. This shit might work on your family and friends, but not on some random internet weirdo with a diff opinion.

    Kinda makes you look like a weirdo too, that just my opinion tho. Enjoy your temper tantrum.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    When the premise at it's core is faulted yes. It's not a guilt trip. It's like people who deny climate change and then base all their decisions based on it being fake. Trying to convince them climate change is real isn't guilt tripping them.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Man i really triggered you by disagreeing with your points! You really have to act like I'm disagreeing with climate change. That's fucking hilarious.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    No, I'm not triggered. I never said you disagree with climate change.

    You self said you refuse to differentiate someone buying something and someone being given money, it was just an example.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Naw, you're pretty fucking assmad, the example is loaded. Comparing Elon companies to anthropogenic (I'm assuming) climate change is a wild reach. One only a guilt tripping weirdo would try to lay down on some stranger in an anonymous argument. Like you should step back, getting cringy now.

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    He literally already did something like this with tesla and solar city. There was a court case and everything but musk won so it's no suprise he's doing it again.

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  • [–] 40 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    60m settlement. Technically a loss, but a slap on the wrist and a drop in the bucket as far as I'm concerned so I won't argue that it wasn't a win.

    I can't believe this fucking court system.

    https://www.pv-tech.org/delaware-judge-approves-us60m-settlement-for-tesla-shareholders-aggrieved-b/

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Once you have enough money winning a court case is indistinguishable from losing one.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    Ahhh I thought he straight up got charges dismissed my bad. But yeah $60 million for elon is a slap on the wrist, or "cost of doing business"

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Are they gonna use them as ballast or dummy payload or what?

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Just so long as they strip out the lithium batteries first - otherwise that'd be one helluva fireball coming back down in some random spot

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  • [–] 44 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    I get what you're going for, but the amount of energy stored in any mass going at orbital speed far outweighs the energy stored in its chemical makeup. A 1kg mass traveling 7.8km/s (LEO speed) has 30MJ of kinetic energy. By comparison, 1kg of TNT has 4.184MJ of chemical energy. So even if the Cybertruck was made out of TNT, the TNT would only account for about 13% of the total energy. Removing the batteries would significantly reduce the mass which would have a large impact on the "fireball," but I don't think that's what you're going for.

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago
    [–] 121 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    All valid criticism aside, 1000 is a pretty fathomable number.

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  • [–] 31 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    They only made around 50k of them. So that is still a considerable amount.

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  • [–] 44 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Sure, but still a number which it is possible to fathom.

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  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago

    It's been awhile since I took accounting, but this looks like they are setting up a transfer pricing fraud.

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  • [–] 25 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Nothing is based on supply and demand anymore. The "market" no longer makes corrections. It's all manipulatable fuckery and the elite still wants you to believe that the stock market is stable. The big bubble burst will be money, and how it's abused/misused, not AI.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    They’ve made it so you will be left behind economically if you don’t slave for SP500 shares

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    eh, the SP500 is just the slot machine meant to real people in

    real $ is on learning what individual tickers are really worth and trading on that

    bubbles like this are basically just milking pensioners and whatnot who buy into the system mindlessly, when enough buy in and there's a catalyst to get peoples eyes on the screens (imo, trump finally croaking) so they can sell into it profitability the algo's switch to dumping, which'll then cause mainstreet to panic sell seeing half their retirement vanish overnight

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    It’s more than a slot machine, it’s the primary beneficiary of all the bad fiscal policy and wealth concentration. That and real estate. All the cool kids are hoarding it! Giving them selves cool loans based off the cool valuations they cooked up. Bond market is imploding and taking cash with it. Great time to buy SPY

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    but...considering the state of US labor/left, realistically crashes like they're setting up now are the plebs best bet on actually capturing some of that wealth for themselves, it's that or you jump like a monkey (sports) or record your misery (various arts) and hope your pain/suffering is entertaining to them.

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    He only gets his reinstated absurdly large Tesla bonus if Tesla does really well.

    What can be better for profits than selling a bunch of cybertrucks? (Even if it is to himself.)

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    A cybertruck bubble you say??

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Unfathomable and 1000-2000 are quite different… especially when talking about 250,000

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago*

    Money laundering? Stock boosting, same difference.

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Calling it now, spacex will merge with Tesla to try hit the valuation for Musks pay package

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago

    If anyone was still sceptical about there being an enormous bubble about to pop…

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago

    Probably because these have been known to blast off before reaching ignition. I give them a T-minus on this deal.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago

    Wash trading at its finest.

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago

    Oroborous Economics

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    That's a creative use for the state handout that he receives for spacex, propping up the shareholders.

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