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[–] 35 points 11 months ago (9 children)

This is real and actually quite interesting to look at the history of. For example, the word "Decimate" IIRC was originally defined as killing one for every ten people of a group of people. Now, its used as a term for high impact destruction.

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    My usual example is manufacture — to make by hand, but it's more commonly used now to mean machine manufactured and made by hand is called handmade.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    That's a good one. In school they had me memorize a novel of Latin root words, which is where things can get frustrating. You take a word and piece together the meaning, only to find out the definition has changed so drastically over the years that the root words are now nonsense. Both of our examples fit this description.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago

    Yeah, I'm prone to go down rabbit holes looking at the etymology and origin of related words for hours. Latin was one of my favorite classes in high school. It's great for world building and stylizing prose when writing fiction.

    Sometimes the etymology is just weird because the current meaning is from an abbreviation of a phrase and the roots don't make sense in isolation, such as perfidious, from the roots per fidem "through faith" but its meaning is from the larger phrase "deceiving through faith."

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    It was originally killing 1 in every 10 by lot. In other words, not in battle, but as a collective punishment of a unit 1 in 10 soldiers would be randomly selected and killed.

    1 in 10 soldiers dying in a battle doesn't sound all that bad. But, 1 in 10 soldiers being selected to be killed as a form of punishment for the unit sounds a lot worse.

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  • [–] 85 points 11 months ago (18 children)

    Ok ok... I'll be the one...

    "Wrongly"

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    no worries I'll use it the wrongliest

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    You can always go wrongliester!

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Incidentally, I really hate that the UK expression for when someone is feeling sick is "poorly".

    It's got the "ly" ending which is one of the clear signs of an adverb, and in other contexts it is used as an adverb. But, for some reason the British have turned it into an adjective meaning sick. Sometimes they use it in a way where it can be seen as an adverb: "He's feeling poorly", in which case it seems to be modifying "feeling". In the North American dialect you could substitute the adjective "sick": "He's feeling sick". But, other times they say "She won't be coming in today, she's poorly". What is the adverb modifying there, "is"?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Washing-up fluid.

    Washing up what?

    Dishes?

    Dishwasher fluid.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Some flat adverbs sound perfectly natural to most speakers, like "play nice" or "drive safe". Others have less acceptability among people in general, like "That tastes real good."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_adverb

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    I don't even see "nice" in "play nice" as an adverb. You could switch "play" for "be" -- "be nice", same with "be safe".

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    There's that old line that if my aunt had wheels she'd be a bicycle. Maybe the command form is muddling the topic here, but using the be-verb with an adjective like that attaches a subject complement, essentially describing the subject. But "I am fast" describing a person doesn't mean that saying "I drive fast" is describing a drive as a noun.

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    But do you mean literally everyone or literally everyone?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If it is not literally everyone, it still might be correct in the way that using a word for (one of) its jargon meaning(s) is correct. So, correct in context.

    When using words to convey information to an audience to whom you might not be able to clarify, it is useful to use words for the meanings listed in common dictionar(y/ies) ("correctly") so that the audience can resolve confusions through those dictionaries.

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  • [–] 48 points 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    Honestly, I could care less about this shit.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Do you care a lot or only a little?

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I told you, I could care less! It's a moot point!

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    I literally don't give a shit

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    And I don't want any of your shit.

    I grew up on dairy farm and it was one of my chores to shove the shit and then spread that shit nearly everyday. So I've had enough shit. I'm so done with that shit and the assholes it came out of. And I don't need anyone giving me shit anymore either.

    So you just keep your shit to yourself.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Cow shit's not that bad.

    Don't tell me that's bullshit.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I have walked in that shit, slipped in that shit, I have even fallen in that shit. Cow shit smells and tastes just as bad as the finest Bull shit. And that bullshit is mixed into that cow shit and the two can't be separated. No matter how hard you try. And I ain't dealing with any shit anymore for whatever time is left of my life.

    But, I do like drinking my Daily Duck Shit. I have a cup of it right now. I love drinking my Daily Duck Shit and I always try to keep it on hand.

    ****For those that aren't fairly deep into Chinese Oolong teas, Duck Shit, “Ya Shi Xiang”, is type of Dan-Cong Oolong tea. You can google Duck Shit tea and get at least one origin story. They are fun stories.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I can't tell if you're using this idiomatic expression in the wrong way on purpose for a great joke, or in an annoying, unaware way. 😅

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Everyone has to agree tho.

    Don't be one of these dickheads that defines shit their own way then gets upset when nobody agrees with your dumbass. There's quite a few people like that here on Lemmy and I find them to be the single most annoying type of user on this site.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    It's better to use words correctly, but in ways that call your understanding of the definition into question.

    "I hacked into my sister's facebook when she left it open on her laptop."

    "In an act of philanthropy I gave George the rest of my fries."

    "Mr. Hands died for his passion, a modern day saint."

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Minor gripe - it's not right to say that everyone has to agree, but it is sensible to point out that one person has no real basis for having unique meanings for terms and then reacting poorly when others fail to use them.

    Every word had an evolution or hard origin, and each stepping stone on those journeys had some first user. By whatever means, some of those new words or new tweaks on existing words caught on and spread.

    And sometimes, despite generally widespread acceptance of a change or a new word, some folks will bitterly hold on to the old ways for years or decades until they just die wrong about it.

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Can I have some more pixels please

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  • [+] 19 points 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    April I have more pixels please

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    So I should accept people saying "could care less" when they mean the exact opposite? Not sure I can do that.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Idioms don't have to (and often don't) make sense. How do you feel about "head over heels"?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Interesting - Wiktionary says that the phrase was originally "heels over head", which makes sense when conveying the sense of tumbling over. I guess that became corrupted, resulting in "head over heels". Maybe I should start saying "heels over head" then.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I mean, the main point is that language doesn't have to make "logical" sense. It's not a math problem. Just look at all the inconsistencies in pretty much every aspect of a language. It's all there simply because of history and people agreeing on meanings for words and phrases. For example, you've got something like prepositions. There's literally zero logical reason why we talk or speak to someone, but we don't tell or converse to someone.

    And people who are more rigid in thinking about language always seem to think the language they learned growing up is the most "correct" version, whether that has a basis in history or not. Like even though literally has been used as an intensifier for (literally) hundreds of years, that seems to be a sticking point, whereas something like very, which has a similar root (veracis meaning truth), any sentence using very doesn't have to have an exact truthful meaning.

    Hell, once we go back to "original" meanings of words, where do we stop? The singular use of "they" is older than that of singular "you", but I somehow never see the "singular they is confusing" crowd advocating for a return to thee/thou.

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago

    If it's only morons that use it "wrong", then it does indeed become right, but still gains the added subtext of "by the way I'm also a moron"

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Languages are living things. And living things always change. Note the Great English Vowel Change. Even the Norwegian my Grandfather spoke and that I learned from him was virtually a dead language that modern Norwegians stopped using in the 1850s. And the English spoken in the UK is different than the American English I speak. Spanish spoken in Spain isn't the same as someone from Mexico speaks.

    And when conversing with someone, (in the language of your choice), the words you choose to use are defined by the context you use them in. Words can have multiple meanings, but it's the context and tone clarifies those meanings. Consider all the meanings of the single word 'fuck'.

    But problems start with written words. And many people have poor written communication skills. It can be hard to parse meaning from poorly written words because there is little context and tone that comes through with a typed sentence.

    We are all just baying at the moon like any pack. And hoping some understands us.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Written word is a facsimile of a facsimile of what we're actually communicating. We go from nebulous thoughts, concepts not bound by language, to sounds that roughly convey those concepts, and then to squiggly lines that roughly convey those sounds, and then back up the chain in the other person. Really, it's a miracle we understand each other at all.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I would say this is not universal. For some, the written word is the native "tongue", conveying the actual, intended meaning. The written word allows the speaker the opportunity to evaluate and revise their language to match their intent, and the listener the opportunity to re-evaluate previously transmitted thoughts.

    The oral variant is dependent on the real-time aptitude of the speaker to articulate their thoughts and message, and for the listener to extract that meaning from the same. For those of us handicapped in these traits, the spoken word is the poor facsimile for actual (written) communication.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    There are those constraints around written/spoken word, for sure. I'm more referring to how close it is to the "raw" thought.

    We evolved the ability to think. In order to allow our thoughts to reach others, we developed spoken word. In order to allow those spoken words to be passed through time, we developed written word. Each refers back to the previous "layer" of communication.

    Even someone who has a speech impediment, for instance, is still using the same written language as someone else in the same culture. And that written language was developed specifically to try and evoke the words someone in the culture speaks.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    "Everyone" meaning the social media someone and their social set get their info and cues from, not the rest of the people around them.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    We should probably resist hyper simplifying language, but whatever, I guess.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I can't help but think about 1984's newspeak whenever I see something like the abominable "unalive". I know the reasons are different for this particular one, but I agree that we seem to be moving into that kind of direction.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago* (4 children)

    For me it's adjective/superlative escalation. Hey, this bagel is awesome. It fills me with awe. It's much better than this soda which is terrible, it strikes me with terror how bad it is. It results in having to throw in intensifiers, which we're exhausting as well. Wow this movie is so fucking good. It was worth leaving the house for.

    I've also been both a second language teacher and second language learner. It is really hard to teach a language where 50% of the words are culture dependent and old texts are completely irrelevant. It's very hard to learn simple language and be told it's wrong now.

    People talk about descriptivist drift like it's 100% inevitable or even good, ignoring that we have finally reached an era of long term preservation of text and speech, and of global communication. We could be the first generation to be understood plainly for millenia. And what we are deciding to do instead is to make language from 100 years ago sound like Chaucer.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    The printing press was invented in 1440, the era of theoretical long-term-preservation has been here and languages keep changing despite it. We aren't going to hit the brakes on the specific period and culture that you happened to have been born into either.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The irony of someone named Soggy telling me about data preservation on paper is wonderful.

    It's not even really the change, it's the rate of change. We are accelerating towards mutually unintelligible dialects at an outstanding rate, and at the same time do-nothing linguistic graduates are pleased to denigrate the idea of at least having a single widely-understood vocabulary so that a Malaysian can speak to a Scotsman without having to carry a dictionary.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Fully explaining why the thing you're asking for is both impossible and undesirable is a job for an anthropology thesis, but the tl;dr version is that it's a short and straight line from your position to advocating for cultural genocide.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Sure it is. Short and straight.

    Go on, lecture an Irish person about cultural genocide. I so wish we had a culture but we don't speak Irish anymore so of course we are a grey blob that nobody would recognise as distinct anymore 😪

    Edit: downvote and run when "we just observe 💛" college rhetoric meets physical reality.

    The reason most Americsn linguistics students equate language and culture is because a foreign language is the only different culture they've ever been exposed to.

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  • [–] 30 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Well. Sort of.

    Some terminology is better defined by how the relevant experts use it. It's singular and precise definition is required for any useful dialogue. If 99% of people call a kidney a liver but doctors call it a kidney its a kidney.

    Some terminology evolves and is used differently by different groups. Sometimes the more illiterate group flattens the language by removing nuance or even entirely removing a concept from a language with no replacement. Arguably both definitions may be common usage but one is worse and using it means you are.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

    Some word usage just becomes so common everyone, even generational gaps understand it. If you talk to an 18 or a 65 year old and say the word blowjob, they both know what you mean, yet they aren't out there blowing on dicks or trying to force air up urethras... Hopefully...

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I feel like people forget that words can have multiple definitions. You can have a technical definition and a popular definition

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    What if I told you that if everyone uses a word the “wrong” way, in slightly different ways, it’s wrong?

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