I've read through the Bible cover to cover three times. Amplified, NIV, and New King James with a copy of Strongs.
I'm an atheist now.
I've read through the Bible cover to cover three times. Amplified, NIV, and New King James with a copy of Strongs.
I'm an atheist now.
I don’t have a religion, but consider myself to be “religiously neutral.” Either smart men from all over are running the same scam — or there are common bits of wisdom in most religions and there may be something to that. Either way, I ultimately believe in Humanism, I suppose. That humans are inherently good, or want to be, and/or enough actually are.
I do not believe in anything original myself. It’s all academic to me.
or there are common bits of wisdom in most religions and there may be something to that.
The entire point of religion is to make important rules followed.
When a food is banned, it's because that food was killing people when the rules were written. Abrahamic religions don't like sex that doesn't make babies, because they all start as persecuted cults by the main branches and the fastest way to grow is to have kids born into it.
It's obviously all outdated, but it boils down to how you'd convince a kid not to do something when you can't watch them 24/7: follow the rules or Santa will find out.
Like there's always jokes about Jewish Sabbath, but honesty that was just the equivalent to modern union mandated lunch breaks. The only way to guarantee a day off back in the day, was to explicitly outlaw doing anything. Pretty much all anyone in the household could do was just relax and hang out together.
Like I said, it's all way outdated. But every time you try something new suddenly the ATF starts hanging around...
"'Cause, in those days, a pork chop could kill ya!" - Chris Rock
The really weird one is shellfish.
Shellfish allergy is a big deal, And prior to refrigeration it wasn't a common food unless right near da beach.
So people could not try it till they were adults, and just keel over on the spot. But since shellfish allergy is weirdly genetic, the populations most at risk for it now, are the ones who spent centuries avoiding it. Because everyone else kept losing at least some of the people who were allergic
Either smart men from all over are running the same scam — or there are common bits of wisdom in most religions and there may be something to that.
Or C: There was an original scam that not so original humans copied over and over through the years.
"Religion is true to the poor, false to the rich, and useful to the powerful."
The scam of hedonist-denying self-restraint, says the Western man. The scam of purpose and belonging beyond the scope of the party, says the anti-religious commie.
I have personally experienced librarians and they have helped me when in need.
My religion isn’t really based on belief, just practice. And I do the practices because they make me feel better and more connected.
I just have a deeply rooted appreciation for pasta.
I used to, because my parents did and I went to church and all that.
But then I started to actually think about it.
Now I don't believe in anything supernatural.
There are parts of nature we don't understand (yet) but I don't think there's any 'higher power' that created the universe, and especially not earth or humankind specifically.
The sun is real.
How can you definitively prove it, though?
Take a look at it, it'll prove to you it's real.
Could be an illusion, or a lamp somewhere in the sky, or a simulation
With Solipsism.
Unless you are the Sun (in which case, cute~), it doesn't seem to help
My point is that if universal personal experience doesn't prove something, you may be in the philosophical weeds.
It doesn't take philosophical weeds to consider the possibility of Sun being just a lamp in the sky, or people around you not being real
The sun can be a large lamp. That's still real.
Is it the Sun as we know it, though? And how can we be sure the lamp is actually there, and not simulation/imagination/trick of our eyes or brain?
I rejected christianity sometime as an early teen.
I don't remember my full reasoning but I did not like the idea of getting up early Sunday morning to do the church stuff.
It never got replaced by anything.
I find it funny that there was a time where atheists on the internet were just called edge lords (or still, idk) for not believing in god and voicing that opinion. I remember being like 8 years old and thinking: wow that is stupid, why would anyone believe that. That was pre internet, i didn't have to be influenced by other edge lords and i didn't read any books about it. But somehow it's in certain parts of the world weirder to come to that conclusion than believing in the all mighty super being.
During that time period it wasn't so much being an atheist that made someone an edge lord, but in how they went about communicating that to others.
Same. My mother actually sent me to Sunday school and I even did 1st grade at a Catholic School. I too remembering how silly it all seemed even at that age. Luckily the school closed down after that first year or she would have kept sending me there. I always wonder if the indoctrination would have taken if I'd have to keep going year after year.
I do not really know. I was not raised in a practicing family, and my country is very secular.
Philosophically, I'm agnostic. I'm not convinced either by arguments for or against the existence of God. I think a being which could exist outside time and space is not approachable by our reason.
But I can't stay neutral, the question is too important. And I feel the presence of God in my life. This feeling came first, and when I tried to understand it, I went to the culturally nearest place of worship, and it was Protestantism, and I felt at home. I read the Bible, not as a theology manual, but as the story of people who try to understand the presence of God; sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, but their quest is mine, and theirs inspires mine.
I feel the same way reading the Bible. Even as early as Genesis I was like damn Abraham I already don't understand why you tried to pimp out your sister-wife ONCE so why did you KEEP DOING IT? Somebody recently commented that they find the Bible boring and I was like you need to find a modern translation because if you can even vaguely understand what's actually going on that shit is WILD. Turns out humans have always been crazy AF and personally I actually find that kinda comforting. Makes a lot of modern shit seem less unmanageable. Another great example is the whole Onan thing. It's wild that somebody decided to make it about masturbation when if you really get down to it it's a story about a dude who thinks he's being slick by obeying the letter of the current law to (literally) screw his widowed sister in law out of her rightful property and THAT story is TIMELESS.
You sacrifice for me, I sustain you. I sacrifice for you, you sustain me.
I believe this because nature is hungry, but expected to sustain life.
Because I've personally met Jesus Christ. He's a 10,000 year old former cave man.
I want to have an afterlife. I study science, and sometimes I feel like there are things humans won't get in my lifetime. So I like to think that I can continue on learning even after I die.
Because I know exactly what death will be like. So do you. Think back to before you were born, there was nothing. There, that is death. Not much to be afraid of.
ITT: Atheists
I believe there is lots of important knowledge about morality etc. embedded inside religious books. This is why is is worth reading those. Also there is lots of shitty and immoral stuff i try to ignore. Why would I try to implement those.
The other important stuff is active community. A single person can only do so much good. But if you are doing good as a whole local community you can do project far bigger than you could pull off yourself.
So it was easy to decide to keep the religion I was raised in. This is the biggest religion with biggest community.
This is about my religious framework and why I have it. However I distinct between my religion and my personal believes. Personally I am ignostic (with I), so I think we almost never use the same definitions for God, Being, to believe, to exist,... I even hold an opinion, by what most atheists define what God is, most grown up Christians are atheists. And the other way around. I think we hold pretty similar believes but we use different meaning for same words.
I'm an atheist due Roman Catholic grade school. The teachings about religion were crazy.
I also went to Roman Catholic high school and college but religion was very miner. College required four religion type courses but including courses such as ethics and logic.
Yeah sorry, there's nothing.
But we should behave towards each other as we'd like to be treated. Otherwise it doesn't work.
Now, there's this unsolved issue of people harming all of us...
Cutting out philosophical arguments, prophecies and "no way this is a coincidence" types of stuff (which, yeah, there's a lot of those), it's a combination of
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?
-Quran 41:53
They have taken their rabbis and monks as lords besides Allah and also the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), though they were commanded to worship only One God. There is no god except Him. His Glory is far above any partners they ascribe (to Him).
-9:31
And let not those who [greedily] withhold what Allah has given them of His bounty ever think that it is better for them. Rather, it is worse for them. Their necks will be encircled by what they withheld on the Day of Resurrection. And to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. And Allah, with what you do, is [fully] Acquainted.
-3:180
Of course there's a lot more where that came from, but the point is: We here have a religious text that encourages independent thought and pondering of the world and itself, promises harsh punishment for hoarding wealth and unequivocally condemns priestly institutions. Does that sound like an attempt to gain wealth or power? Exactly. Also this
He [Muhammad] looked displeased and turned (his attention) away, because a blind man came to him (interrupting his discourse). What would make you realise? Perhaps he would purify himself (by your attention),
-80:1-3
is not how a cult leader talks about himself. It's admittedly hard to parse from the translation, but this is a somewhat harsh admonition of Muhammad here. The segment continues until verse 10 if anyone wants continue reading, but the gist of it is "you're ignoring the man seeking guidance and trying to convince those who reject it? That is not how that works. Yes, even if it's a random blind guy."
I believe in God and His judgement because I just do. There's something instead of nothing, and nothing takes considerably less effort than something to exist (no need to argue this, nor any way to do so, hehe), and for me the idea of a Creator makes entire sense and completes the puzzle. I believe in His judgement probably because of that inner morality and desire for truth and justice everyone has but many deny and avoid. Finally, I do because it makes me happy, and helps me tame the animal and just be overall a person I'm proud of being, one that walks his talk and is at peace with himself and others.
Of course, none of this just came to me, or at least not as well defined and convincingly spoken, this is all thanks to the words of the prophets and the word of God as encapsulated in the Qur'an. Jesus always made sense to me even as an atheist kid (I just thought he was a pretty clever and kindhearted dude, not, you know, "God made flesh" or whatever people believe in), Solomon should make sense to any adult with enough working neurons, Muhammad's message is basically just a reiteration and perfection of it all, a little bow that ties all of monotheism up. 👍
username checks out
Could you expand (or link to something that expands) on the Solomon thing?
Please read Ecclesiastes, written by Solomon, (son of David, king of Jerusalem), one of the wisest men in recorded history and the OG panicking existentialist!
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ecclesiastes+1&version=NIV
It's a short read, I promise. 👍
The closest thing I have to a religion is Buddhism. I practice it. I meditate daily. I read about it. As far as belief goes, though, it doesn't ask you to have faith outside of believing that if you follow the practice you will see the results they say you will. The millennia old texts that it's based on are called Suttas. One of them, the Kalama Sutta, explicitly tells the villagers of Kalama not to believe it just because they are told it is so.
"Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.
Personally I have seen the results of my meditation in my life. I'm still early on the path, but it seems to be progressing as they say it will. I have developed, through a few years of practice, the ability to focus on the present moment and still my mind to the point that, at least for a short time, thoughts don't arise. I'm fully aware of where I am and what is happening, but my mind is still. It doesn't last for long, but with more practice it will. I'm developing what's called samadhi, a type of concentrated focus where, eventually, nothing interrupts your concentration and you can maintain it as long as you like. I have a ways to go, but it appears to be progressing as expected.
So to answer the question, I believe it because I have experienced it. Many of the parts I haven't yet experienced I suspect are true, though I will only understand and believe them when I do experience them for myself.
I don't. Not Buddhist anymore
Buddhism looked appealing to me until I actually looked into it (I come from a Western culture)
What didn't you like?
Cosmology, mainly. To someone who's barely familiar with Buddhism, it may seem like it's all Buddha's wisdom with some Samsara magic sprinkled on top of it. Really though, it's every bit as bonkers and reflective of the ancient perceptions of the world as any other way of mystical thought.
As for teachings, I honestly didn't go to deep into that, but I visited a local temple and the way a monk told about them made me feel I visited some sort of lnternet life coach with some mystical stuff on top.
made me feel I visited some sort of lnternet life coach with some mystical stuff on top.
There's another kind that probably prefers a local language, and would feel very much like a Christian priest. It fills the same basic social roles in some places.
Kind of like how there's actual shamans, and then the kind that tells white people what they want to hear before feeding them mushrooms. The West never stopped loving a wise noble savage.
What’s the term for not knowing for sure if there’s a god or not and not giving a fuck about it either way?
I don't believe in a religion. I am a syncretic pantheist.
"Syncretic" meaning that I don't think any one religion or sect has a monopoly on divine truth, even if they are sincere and productive attempts. Refer to Rumi's Elephant.
"Pantheist" meaning that I think God = Universe. The laws of nature are God's attributes. We are all literally one with God, everything that exists is.
I believe these things because I exhausted basically every other reasonable metaphysical alternative.
Isn’t this Universal Unitarianism?
It's only one more small step to atheism. By looking at how tortured the language you use is. And realizing that the effect is the same with less steps.
No, actually. This was a step past atheism, which was how I identified for most of my teens and into my 20s. I too went onto message boards to convince religious people they were irrational.
It turns out my younger self, and I suspect you, came to that conclusion by a series of silly misunderstandings and an arbitrarily bounded rationality.
No, the language isn't tortured, no the effect is not the same, no it isn't fewer steps. It's only one more small step from atheism to a coherent metaphysics.
Good on you. I'm happy that you're happy.
I'm over 60. I've explored many belief systems. Eastern and Western, including panpsychism. I came to believe that reality is what is shown to be real. That inventing additional unseeable and unprovable forces and aspects only complicate my reverence for the "Is". But age and experience are not indicators of truth. I've also learned that much. So I continue to listen and offer guidance to those that may be aided. If I offend, it is unintentional.
I really don't care how you reach your morals. Only that they lead you to respect others (even in their folly) and breed kindness.
Namaste.
As I said, this brand of atheism comes from a place of misunderstanding. If you frame belief in deity as "inventing additional unseeable and unprovable forces and aspects", then I'm afraid you've made some error along the way.
I'm not sure what benefit is provided by the projection of your hangups onto others. I'm not sure how you could construe your comment as inoffensive. I don't see how implying my language was tortured, or my path too long, provides any form of guidance. Perhaps this is a subject where you should spend more time listening than guiding.
The OP was asking for personal reasons for believing what we believe. And that exact reasoning is what brought me out of panpsychism. Just my truth and not a commentary on yours.
I was born a SubGenius just like all other SubGenii. I must have Slack!
Praise "Bob"
top 100 comments