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[–] 45 points 11 months ago (23 children)

I've read through the Bible cover to cover three times. Amplified, NIV, and New King James with a copy of Strongs.

I'm an atheist now.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (20 children)
  • [–] 29 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    I think they are saying reading those books are the reason.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Any parts really. Biblical god was a monster, absolute piece of shit character. Then Jesus came and said he's going to follow his dad's orders with a sword. Jesus is just as bad, there is no old/vs new testament trash, all hateful.

    3 of the 10 commandments were selfish, and there was room in the rules to put don't eat shelfish or wear mixed fabrics, but no mention of don't own fucking people.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Dying for us is shit behavior?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (4 children)

    Lmao. If you honestly believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you. Santa has a timeshare nearby.

    The Bible literally gives instructions on how to own slaves. And how to beat your women. And how to marry off your raped daughters to the rapist.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Just the idea of it is enough

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    The Bible is pretty fallible when looking at it objectively IMO. But the nail in the coffin was contrasting what the Bible asks of us vs what Christianity does. The tyrannical cheeto is as close to the antichrist as we've seen and they're all gaga for him as an example. But I've been disillusioned since Obama's first election. The terrible and false things "the church" and soon to be former church friends said about him was next level bullshit. Yet when I highlighted that the Bible clearly says the worst relationship we have with man is our relationship with Christ landed in def ears.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    "The impenitent sometimes excuse themselves by saying of professed Christians, "I am as good as they are. They are no more self-denying, sober, or circumspect and their conduct then I am. They love pleasure and self-indulgence as well as I do." Thus they make the faults of others an excuse for their own neglect of duty. But the sins and defects of others do not excuse anyone; for the Lord has not given us an erring human pattern. The spotless Son of God has been given as our example, and those who complain of the wrong course of professed Christians are the ones who should show better lives and nobler examples. If they have so high a conception of what a Christian should be, is not their own sin so much the greater? They know what is right, and yet refuse to do it."

    • Steps to Christ p. 32
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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Translation: Judge not shall you be judged

    it's better to say things in 6 words instead of 100+ (I didn't count)

    Just saying

    And I disagree with that argument. It's like saying a critique can't be a critique unless he or she can do better, which is bullshit. And the premise that being disillusioned with a group means I must think higher of myself is a step too far.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Not op, but for me it was the fact that the supposedly ineffable word of God turned out to be pretty effible

    It wasn't the first step towards losing faith, or even the last, but it was pretty troubling to a young me

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    It bothered you that a document written over thousands of years by dozens of authors didn't agree in every imaginable way?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    I was taught and fully believed that it was the literal and inerrant word of God, guided by his hand and infallible... so yes, finding errors in it was a disturbing. The authors or it's age shouldn't matter if they're being guided by an all knowing and all powerful being. It wasn't until much later that I found out how much of it is suspected forgery. Probably could have saved a couple years of agony there

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    The bible reads like any other religious text. It is impossible for all religions to be true, but it is possible for them all to be false. With no strong evidence proving the bible to be true, there is no reason to accept it over any other religion.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    I understand the reaction. The Bible is sold by a lot of churches as “the word of God”, and if it's the case, God is a lying asshole. But nowhere in the Bible it is written that the Bible is the word of God; according to the Bible the word of God is Jesus-Christ so… it may not be the right approach according to the Bible itself.

    I love the Bible, I read it (almost) every day, I use it as a guide in my material and spiritual lives, I studied the story of its interpretation in the university, I even thought about making that my speciality. Yet I don't understand how someone could believe in biblical inerrancy. It's very clearly a human work, written by error-prone normal humans. I believe that God spoke to its redactors, but it's still a human work. And ours is (according to me) to listen to the voice of God through the human form; and that's why we have the Church, as it's not something one can do alone.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I like your view.

    Though I don't do church anymore, either they worship the current incarnation of the antichrist or they're lead by weak leaders who aren't willing or capable to do what it takes to be a great leader in my experience.

    We tried a few liberal / LGBTQ lead churches and I just couldn't continue to participate. My wife kept going longer than I did but she hasn't gone in a few years.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    I don’t have a religion, but consider myself to be “religiously neutral.” Either smart men from all over are running the same scam — or there are common bits of wisdom in most religions and there may be something to that. Either way, I ultimately believe in Humanism, I suppose. That humans are inherently good, or want to be, and/or enough actually are.

    I do not believe in anything original myself. It’s all academic to me.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    or there are common bits of wisdom in most religions and there may be something to that.

    The entire point of religion is to make important rules followed.

    When a food is banned, it's because that food was killing people when the rules were written. Abrahamic religions don't like sex that doesn't make babies, because they all start as persecuted cults by the main branches and the fastest way to grow is to have kids born into it.

    It's obviously all outdated, but it boils down to how you'd convince a kid not to do something when you can't watch them 24/7: follow the rules or Santa will find out.

    Like there's always jokes about Jewish Sabbath, but honesty that was just the equivalent to modern union mandated lunch breaks. The only way to guarantee a day off back in the day, was to explicitly outlaw doing anything. Pretty much all anyone in the household could do was just relax and hang out together.

    Like I said, it's all way outdated. But every time you try something new suddenly the ATF starts hanging around...

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    "'Cause, in those days, a pork chop could kill ya!" - Chris Rock

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    The really weird one is shellfish.

    Shellfish allergy is a big deal, And prior to refrigeration it wasn't a common food unless right near da beach.

    So people could not try it till they were adults, and just keel over on the spot. But since shellfish allergy is weirdly genetic, the populations most at risk for it now, are the ones who spent centuries avoiding it. Because everyone else kept losing at least some of the people who were allergic

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Either smart men from all over are running the same scam — or there are common bits of wisdom in most religions and there may be something to that.

    Or C: There was an original scam that not so original humans copied over and over through the years.

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago

    I have personally experienced librarians and they have helped me when in need.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago

    My religion isn’t really based on belief, just practice. And I do the practices because they make me feel better and more connected.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I just have a deeply rooted appreciation for pasta.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago

    I used to, because my parents did and I went to church and all that.

    But then I started to actually think about it.

    Now I don't believe in anything supernatural.
    There are parts of nature we don't understand (yet) but I don't think there's any 'higher power' that created the universe, and especially not earth or humankind specifically.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (11 children)

    How can you definitively prove it, though?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Take a look at it, it'll prove to you it's real.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Unless you are the Sun (in which case, cute~), it doesn't seem to help

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)

    My point is that if universal personal experience doesn't prove something, you may be in the philosophical weeds.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    It doesn't take philosophical weeds to consider the possibility of Sun being just a lamp in the sky, or people around you not being real

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    The sun can be a large lamp. That's still real.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Is it the Sun as we know it, though? And how can we be sure the lamp is actually there, and not simulation/imagination/trick of our eyes or brain?

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I rejected christianity sometime as an early teen.

    I don't remember my full reasoning but I did not like the idea of getting up early Sunday morning to do the church stuff.

    It never got replaced by anything.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I find it funny that there was a time where atheists on the internet were just called edge lords (or still, idk) for not believing in god and voicing that opinion. I remember being like 8 years old and thinking: wow that is stupid, why would anyone believe that. That was pre internet, i didn't have to be influenced by other edge lords and i didn't read any books about it. But somehow it's in certain parts of the world weirder to come to that conclusion than believing in the all mighty super being.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Same. My mother actually sent me to Sunday school and I even did 1st grade at a Catholic School. I too remembering how silly it all seemed even at that age. Luckily the school closed down after that first year or she would have kept sending me there. I always wonder if the indoctrination would have taken if I'd have to keep going year after year.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I do not really know. I was not raised in a practicing family, and my country is very secular.

    Philosophically, I'm agnostic. I'm not convinced either by arguments for or against the existence of God. I think a being which could exist outside time and space is not approachable by our reason.

    But I can't stay neutral, the question is too important. And I feel the presence of God in my life. This feeling came first, and when I tried to understand it, I went to the culturally nearest place of worship, and it was Protestantism, and I felt at home. I read the Bible, not as a theology manual, but as the story of people who try to understand the presence of God; sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, but their quest is mine, and theirs inspires mine.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago*

    I feel the same way reading the Bible. Even as early as Genesis I was like damn Abraham I already don't understand why you tried to pimp out your sister-wife ONCE so why did you KEEP DOING IT? Somebody recently commented that they find the Bible boring and I was like you need to find a modern translation because if you can even vaguely understand what's actually going on that shit is WILD. Turns out humans have always been crazy AF and personally I actually find that kinda comforting. Makes a lot of modern shit seem less unmanageable. Another great example is the whole Onan thing. It's wild that somebody decided to make it about masturbation when if you really get down to it it's a story about a dude who thinks he's being slick by obeying the letter of the current law to (literally) screw his widowed sister in law out of her rightful property and THAT story is TIMELESS.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    You sacrifice for me, I sustain you. I sacrifice for you, you sustain me.

    I believe this because nature is hungry, but expected to sustain life.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Because I've personally met Jesus Christ. He's a 10,000 year old former cave man.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    I want to have an afterlife. I study science, and sometimes I feel like there are things humans won't get in my lifetime. So I like to think that I can continue on learning even after I die.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Because I know exactly what death will be like. So do you. Think back to before you were born, there was nothing. There, that is death. Not much to be afraid of.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I believe there is lots of important knowledge about morality etc. embedded inside religious books. This is why is is worth reading those. Also there is lots of shitty and immoral stuff i try to ignore. Why would I try to implement those.

    The other important stuff is active community. A single person can only do so much good. But if you are doing good as a whole local community you can do project far bigger than you could pull off yourself.

    So it was easy to decide to keep the religion I was raised in. This is the biggest religion with biggest community.

    This is about my religious framework and why I have it. However I distinct between my religion and my personal believes. Personally I am ignostic (with I), so I think we almost never use the same definitions for God, Being, to believe, to exist,... I even hold an opinion, by what most atheists define what God is, most grown up Christians are atheists. And the other way around. I think we hold pretty similar believes but we use different meaning for same words.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I'm an atheist due Roman Catholic grade school. The teachings about religion were crazy.

    I also went to Roman Catholic high school and college but religion was very miner. College required four religion type courses but including courses such as ethics and logic.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    because the book said itself was real

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Yeah sorry, there's nothing.

    But we should behave towards each other as we'd like to be treated. Otherwise it doesn't work.

    Now, there's this unsolved issue of people harming all of us...

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Santa's elves don't make toys, Chinese children do.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    Cutting out philosophical arguments, prophecies and "no way this is a coincidence" types of stuff (which, yeah, there's a lot of those), it's a combination of

    We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

    -Quran 41:53

    They have taken their rabbis and monks as lords besides Allah and also the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), though they were commanded to worship only One God. There is no god except Him. His Glory is far above any partners they ascribe (to Him).

    -9:31

    And let not those who [greedily] withhold what Allah has given them of His bounty ever think that it is better for them. Rather, it is worse for them. Their necks will be encircled by what they withheld on the Day of Resurrection. And to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. And Allah, with what you do, is [fully] Acquainted.

    -3:180

    Of course there's a lot more where that came from, but the point is: We here have a religious text that encourages independent thought and pondering of the world and itself, promises harsh punishment for hoarding wealth and unequivocally condemns priestly institutions. Does that sound like an attempt to gain wealth or power? Exactly. Also this

    He [Muhammad] looked displeased and turned (his attention) away, because a blind man came to him (interrupting his discourse). What would make you realise? Perhaps he would purify himself (by your attention),

    -80:1-3

    is not how a cult leader talks about himself. It's admittedly hard to parse from the translation, but this is a somewhat harsh admonition of Muhammad here. The segment continues until verse 10 if anyone wants continue reading, but the gist of it is "you're ignoring the man seeking guidance and trying to convince those who reject it? That is not how that works. Yes, even if it's a random blind guy."

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (9 children)

    I believe in God and His judgement because I just do. There's something instead of nothing, and nothing takes considerably less effort than something to exist (no need to argue this, nor any way to do so, hehe), and for me the idea of a Creator makes entire sense and completes the puzzle. I believe in His judgement probably because of that inner morality and desire for truth and justice everyone has but many deny and avoid. Finally, I do because it makes me happy, and helps me tame the animal and just be overall a person I'm proud of being, one that walks his talk and is at peace with himself and others.

    Of course, none of this just came to me, or at least not as well defined and convincingly spoken, this is all thanks to the words of the prophets and the word of God as encapsulated in the Qur'an. Jesus always made sense to me even as an atheist kid (I just thought he was a pretty clever and kindhearted dude, not, you know, "God made flesh" or whatever people believe in), Solomon should make sense to any adult with enough working neurons, Muhammad's message is basically just a reiteration and perfection of it all, a little bow that ties all of monotheism up. 👍

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Could you expand (or link to something that expands) on the Solomon thing?

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    The closest thing I have to a religion is Buddhism. I practice it. I meditate daily. I read about it. As far as belief goes, though, it doesn't ask you to have faith outside of believing that if you follow the practice you will see the results they say you will. The millennia old texts that it's based on are called Suttas. One of them, the Kalama Sutta, explicitly tells the villagers of Kalama not to believe it just because they are told it is so.

    "Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.

    Personally I have seen the results of my meditation in my life. I'm still early on the path, but it seems to be progressing as they say it will. I have developed, through a few years of practice, the ability to focus on the present moment and still my mind to the point that, at least for a short time, thoughts don't arise. I'm fully aware of where I am and what is happening, but my mind is still. It doesn't last for long, but with more practice it will. I'm developing what's called samadhi, a type of concentrated focus where, eventually, nothing interrupts your concentration and you can maintain it as long as you like. I have a ways to go, but it appears to be progressing as expected.

    So to answer the question, I believe it because I have experienced it. Many of the parts I haven't yet experienced I suspect are true, though I will only understand and believe them when I do experience them for myself.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    I don't. Not Buddhist anymore

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Buddhism looked appealing to me until I actually looked into it (I come from a Western culture)

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Cosmology, mainly. To someone who's barely familiar with Buddhism, it may seem like it's all Buddha's wisdom with some Samsara magic sprinkled on top of it. Really though, it's every bit as bonkers and reflective of the ancient perceptions of the world as any other way of mystical thought.

    As for teachings, I honestly didn't go to deep into that, but I visited a local temple and the way a monk told about them made me feel I visited some sort of lnternet life coach with some mystical stuff on top.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)

    made me feel I visited some sort of lnternet life coach with some mystical stuff on top.

    There's another kind that probably prefers a local language, and would feel very much like a Christian priest. It fills the same basic social roles in some places.

    Kind of like how there's actual shamans, and then the kind that tells white people what they want to hear before feeding them mushrooms. The West never stopped loving a wise noble savage.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    What’s the term for not knowing for sure if there’s a god or not and not giving a fuck about it either way?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    I don't believe in a religion. I am a syncretic pantheist.

    "Syncretic" meaning that I don't think any one religion or sect has a monopoly on divine truth, even if they are sincere and productive attempts. Refer to Rumi's Elephant.

    "Pantheist" meaning that I think God = Universe. The laws of nature are God's attributes. We are all literally one with God, everything that exists is.

    I believe these things because I exhausted basically every other reasonable metaphysical alternative.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    It's only one more small step to atheism. By looking at how tortured the language you use is. And realizing that the effect is the same with less steps.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    No, actually. This was a step past atheism, which was how I identified for most of my teens and into my 20s. I too went onto message boards to convince religious people they were irrational.

    It turns out my younger self, and I suspect you, came to that conclusion by a series of silly misunderstandings and an arbitrarily bounded rationality.

    No, the language isn't tortured, no the effect is not the same, no it isn't fewer steps. It's only one more small step from atheism to a coherent metaphysics.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Good on you. I'm happy that you're happy.

    I'm over 60. I've explored many belief systems. Eastern and Western, including panpsychism. I came to believe that reality is what is shown to be real. That inventing additional unseeable and unprovable forces and aspects only complicate my reverence for the "Is". But age and experience are not indicators of truth. I've also learned that much. So I continue to listen and offer guidance to those that may be aided. If I offend, it is unintentional.

    I really don't care how you reach your morals. Only that they lead you to respect others (even in their folly) and breed kindness.

    Namaste.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    As I said, this brand of atheism comes from a place of misunderstanding. If you frame belief in deity as "inventing additional unseeable and unprovable forces and aspects", then I'm afraid you've made some error along the way.

    I'm not sure what benefit is provided by the projection of your hangups onto others. I'm not sure how you could construe your comment as inoffensive. I don't see how implying my language was tortured, or my path too long, provides any form of guidance. Perhaps this is a subject where you should spend more time listening than guiding.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    The OP was asking for personal reasons for believing what we believe. And that exact reasoning is what brought me out of panpsychism. Just my truth and not a commentary on yours.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I was born a SubGenius just like all other SubGenii. I must have Slack!

    Praise "Bob"

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