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[–] 52 points 1 year ago (3 children)

And then there's Yoko Taro, who instead opts for the emotional difficulty in his games

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Pathologic 2 Devs

    My true desire was for this town to never have a direction or goal marker, not even once. It's intellectually offensive. Who do you have to be thrust a map marker under a free person's nose, saying "Here is your goal. You're too lazy and stupid to figure it out on your own, and I am not without mercy towards lesser minds, so I'll do the work for you. Go there. Go and don't forget to thank me for choosing your goal for you. Love, The Powers That Be.

    Oh you died? Here's a debuff. Oh you thought you could save scum to get around the debuff? Ha! That debuff is on all your saves.

    Why? We're Russian devs. Life is brutual and hard and so should this game.

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  • [–] [S] 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You don't know how hard you're selling me on this game.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    God: .... I'll make a game ... random spawns ... one life ... no instructions .. no directions ... open world ... play as you want

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Ah, may I introduce you to No Man's Sky permadeath mode?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Which is unfortunately far easier than you'd think it is. I've gotten to the core in permadeath.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If you've never gotten it yet, get "Shattered Pixel Dungeon" on your phone. Completely free game. Most of what you speak of, and you'll feel like you've really pulled some shit off after you beat it the first time.

    If you beat it the first time.

    My first win was around attempt number 45.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    SPD is proof that I'm just bad at vidya. I've gotten to floor 10 once. There's clearly come meta I am missing, but I've read strategy guides so I'm just kind of lost at this point.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It's just fucking hard. All the random builds and bad guys. The best hint is to use small walls to your advantage and to sometimes run away and avoid creatures. After you die and die and die you start to learn how all the baddies move around. You can eventually get good. It took me 45 attempts to get my first win, but I had 10 more wins by attempt 70. I was hooked on that game hard for a while.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    And then there is Expedition 33 which added the story mode so that Jennifer English could play it.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    And some people STILL can't beat it without parries.

    Granted, I'm in Act 2 (Expert), and I think the ludicrous level factor into damage is to blame. The fact every other (mini)boss you fight is overlevelled, and just a few levels seem to be a 2-3x damage difference, is so stupid, I imagine someone running into 3 in a row and just giving up.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Someone on YouTube made their first playthrough an all-hit run without parries or dodges. On Expert. They had to grind a bit but made it work. I think the Curator fight where he teaches you jumping was the hardest because his damage scales with your level.

    spoilerThey even beat Simon without one-shotting him. Impressive stuff.

    It really proves that the game can be a normal JRPG, albeit a grindy one in the beginning.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    It really proves that the game can be a normal JRPG, albeit a grindy one in the beginning.

    It's unrelated to difficulty, but, is it a good one though? Being grindy to me is generally a pretty terrible thing in a JRPG. Part of marketing for SMTV's rerelease was nerfing the impact of level on damage, and basically everyone loved that.

    I also don't see many defensive options for the half of the game I'm at besides Maelle's redirect, or maybe absurd defense/HP stacking, if defense even works.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I absolutely hate parry systems and cheated my way through it, although I lost interest once something spoilery happened to the main character you've been playing as.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    I was actually optimistic, because I like Mario&Luigi, so these combat systems CAN work. The problem is, the parry systems in E33 are 80% of your success (if you don't grind), yet are more shallow by comparison, and most of the depth is in the RPG parts that are just a supplement (unless you grind + play on easier difficulty settings, but it seems you need a Picto for AP on damage to let you have fun then)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Both Mario RPG and the M&L games have timing systems I don't mind. They have pretty generous windows and don't punish you too severely if you miss them. E33 was brutal on both fronts.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    That's also because M&L requires more attention to get the timing right. You need to look for cues who the attack will go to, see if you can jump on the attack or only over it, hold the dodge button rather than press, or multitask when both bros are being attacked. Or sometimes, DON'T jump, because you then take damage. The games are puzzle/action games with JRPG elements slapped in.

    E33 is extremely telegraphed (barring the very rare jukes) so it needs to compensate with tight timing and erratic animations, requiring both higher skill + trial and error. Sometimes have to press another button, but you don't even need to figure it out (I tried to jump some attacks because of Elden Ring habits lol), the enemy or whole screen telegraphs it. It's a JRPG with action slapped in, at its core at least.

    For another example, Deltarune and Undertale are basically action games too, but do a lot of stuff with their dodging, sometimes even switching genres to platformer/shooter etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    I "cheat" in M&L by pressing A+B or Y+X at the same time so whichever brother the attack is going to will jump/hit it.

    I didn't mind Undertale and Deltarune's systems, either. They usually utilized full movement rather than "press the button RIGHT NOW!!!"

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Parries is why the game is fun imo

    Without it you would just click abilities and win every time I guess. That's something for someone too.

    Some games I'd rather just take the game out of. Like expedition 33 I'd rather just be a TV show to be honest if your are making it that easy

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
    1. This goes for every JRPG: if clicking and winning is bad, how is chess popular? It'd just mean the RPG part isn't balanced (or is not your type of game)
    2. Mario&Luigi, the only series close to this I've played, just does it way better, some dodges require holding, almost all include figuring out who to dodge with, different effects depending on when you jump etc. Parries in E33 come down to timing one button, and occasionally pressing the others with very clear telegraphs. And dodging seems barely more helpful
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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I like to relax when I play. My days of stressing out over games ended when I had stress in real life.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    All game devs should be forced to play their own games all the way through.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oftentimes, devs are practically the only person who can. Especially small hobbyist devs. They'll spend hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing their own game as they build it and forget they have to then circle back and tune it for people who haven't.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Potentially my hottest take, but this is my biggest criticism of Silksong. Even as someone who likes difficult games, I bounced off it. I'll get back to it eventually, I know I'll love it once I crack it, but it was taking a lot of effort I just can't devote to it right now.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that it's too difficult or that the difficulty level is bad, but it's overtuned. The devs spent 7 years developing it, playing it, replaying it, adding, tweaking. I believe they made exactly the thing they wanted, but that makes it very dense and intricate and you gotta be on just the absolutely correct wavelength to get there ...

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Does anyone remember the devs of Diablo 3 saying that the internal team found the game difficulty is too high and then they doubled it.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    That's weird, I don't remember that game being very hard, at least on the normal difficulty

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    On launch it was quite "difficult" in that good gear was rare (and why wouldn't you sell a good piece of gear for 20 bucks instead of using it), and the damage being very one-shotty on higher difficulties.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Yeah I remember the travesty of that game at launch. Competent gameplay hamstrung by devs leaving room for their micro transactions. But, you didn't need to spend real money. You could grind for 20+ hours with pitiful low magic time until you find something mildly better or sell the good items you do have on the auction house to try and close loop to get better stuff.

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  • [–] 54 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    The director should have reasons for the difficulty of the game. Celeste is a Perfect example. It's hard but it lets you learn and allows you to try again easily even if what you are doing is hard. Hard games that punish you and make you walk for 20-30 mins just so you can learn a few new moves the boss does can be incredibly frustrating. Many people who play these games eventually look at videos online to help after multiple tries because just "getting there" is extremely time consuming. A lot of games have normalized looking things up and that is disappointing as someone who would rather figure it out on my own. But wasting 30 mins to be killed in 2-3 hits from multiple stage bosses is not enjoyable IMHO.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    One can think of it just like about a fastfood joint. Two lines of coordinates: food and service, or user experience and mechanics. We do play clunky old games for their plot or shallow timekillers for their gameplay. Striking the right balance that is fitting your core audience is the goal. There, Kodjima thinks about better service, toning down mechanics so that everyone can eat their burger, while Miyadzaki serves artisan sets knowing their inaccessibility is a part of the deal for their niche audience.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    This is the entire problem with modern gaming meta though. There basically is an assumption that people will look up the walkthrough, so you need to scale difficulty with that in mind.

    I am like you, and this is a big part of why I've almost entirely stopped gaming. Either the game is too hard, or it has like 20 minutes of cir scenes per hour, or it requires an hour of supply grinding any time you pick it back up.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    modern gaming meta

    Like cyberpunk? The borderland series? Elder scrolls series? Expedition 33? Assassin's Creed series? Tons more hyper popular games I'm not aware of because I play mostly arpgs too.

    There's plenty games that try to offer easier playthroughs, unless you wish for a game without easy mode but an easier baseline experience, in which case... Pokémon? The TLoZ games from Wii onwards? Idk, there's plenty and plenty more I don't know of.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    I found expedition 33 to be difficult even in the story telling mode. It suggests a focus on the story, but you absolutely have to scale your characters correctly, learn boss fights patterns etc. I don't like the fight gameplay (not my cup of tea), so I tried to avoid them, but I couldn't progress past a certain point. Love the story and universe, but wish they'd made an even easier mode because I don't want to spend time learning all the mechanics and combos etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Weird, I beat everything but the last optional superboss (Simon) in hard (the difficulty before max) and it's not like I learnt character combos much. Yeah I did learn enemy movesets, sorta, but I always dodged, fuck the parry. Enemies did hit my characters a lot and almost half the turns were spent reviving them, but the revives recover post fight so it's whatever.

    I did reach a point where Maelle and Verso were so strong that enemies hardly got a turn though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    I put exactly 0 thought to the characters builds, so I know it's my fault and I suspect it's not that hard. But I literally have no interest in the combat system, so of course the game is not entirely made for me. However, this story mode shows that some devs don't consider difficulty as a pre-requisite to enjoy their art.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Maybe there's a mod that autowins the battles for you if that's something you would enjoy? If all you want from the game is the story and the art but go along at your own pace, so not game play videos, god mode cheats might give you what you want. I'm being 100% serious.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'll man up at some point and try to beat the game "fair". But not a bad idea if I still get stuck to just cheat.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Don't let the word cheat be a distraction, games are for enjoyment and if the default experience is not enjoyable for you tweaking is 100% fair in offline games tbh. My point was that I like there to be an actual default unified experience, but everyone is free to enjoy how they like. I'm one of the cheesiest players of offline games of all time lol.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Yeah no worries I dont have any issue with cheating in single player games.
    I used loads of trainers in the past to expand the fun in a game after beating it. It's just rarer the times I need to pull out one to finish it

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Why not just watch a video of it on YouTube at that point?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Because the game is prettier/smoother running on my computer native res at 100fps, than watching compressed videos on YouTube.
    Otherwise yeah I would have watched a play through instead.
    Also going at your own pace and being free to explore the environment is more pleasant than watching someone do it for you

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Something a lot of people forget is that looking stuff up is not something normalised recently, older games tended to have a freaking manual that explained most bosses and areas, it even gave hints!

    I get that you would prefer that, lucky there's plenty games for both of us.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Fair point. I always associated those with the fact video games were relatively newer media at the time but you are correct. Some times they would give you maps and instructions.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Respectfully disagree with your stance (which is fine, as fushuan said, there's games enough for all of us.) When I was younger and played more games, I would frequently look up how to get through them on GameFAQ. The joy wasn't in figuring out puzzles, it was in getting to see the story unfolding.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    And what are the games they talk about?

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  • [–] [S] 44 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Kojima is talking about Death Stranding. Miyazaki is talking about one of the Dark Souls games. Itagaki is known for the early 2000s Ninja Gaidens and Dead or Alive, so I'm pretty sure this would have been in reference to Ninja Gaiden.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I like the Dead or Alive where they play beach volleyball and their lady bits jiggle.

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  • [–] [S] 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well, you can thank Itagaki for that.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I had read some posts on Usenet back then with some players saying UV wasn't as tough as they hoped it would be. (...) I thought "Oh really? Ok then. You're all dead." (...) It wasn't meant to be fair, or even finishable. I can't even get past E1M3 in nightmare. Any level with backtracking would be almost impossible.

    - John Romero

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There is a secret level in Doom II described in the biography Masters of Doom by David Kushner. It was made as a prank, where the boss had the face of one of the Johns and moved at 200% faster speed than the player. I’m not sure if this made it into the retail or shareware versions they shipped.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    I wasn’t expecting this post to bring out this kind of animosity in people. Jesus fuckin’ christ.

    Video games are not a public service, there is no such thing as a 100% universally enjoyed video game for a reason. It’s ok that there are different types of video games, folks, be them too hard or too easy for your tastes, it’s kind of stupid to throw these kinds of stones about it.

    I mean, is every book supposed to be palatable to everyone? Are we all supposed to feel the exact same way about every piece of art? This is like being mad that Guardians of The Galaxy involved sci-fi and super heroes and wasn’t a WWII documentary because that’s what you’d have preferred to watch.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    I tried Dark Souls, got my ass kicked, tried again, got my ass kicked again, went "huh, guess it's not for me" and moved on with my life. I truly don't get this mentality where people think they're entitled to play a game that was clearly not designed for them.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Games, like movies, are easily consumed but difficult to create. As a result, everyone and their grandma can critique them and publish on the Internet which only further self-selects for the highly opinionated to do so.

    But not all opinions are equal. You can be well studied in your field and generally intelligent, but if you don't have a relevant background in the humanities and the sciences, you can have complex reasoning but without having the depth, the breadth, and the relevance in the analysis.

    Case in point the first replier. The analogy is fine and the deductive reasoning is self-consistent, but they didn't show the relevance to game design. (Ie. Why must the author make the text size bigger for people who can't enjoy smaller text, and why must the same apply to games.)

    That's why gamers seem to be notorious for having takes that miss the trees for the forest.

    (I am aware that I'm very much at risk of committing this very error with my post.)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Exactly. Not all opinions are equal. If you suck at games, you shouldn't even get an opinion, you should get a different hobby.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    I'm not trying to disagreeing with you. But that's the thing, being "good" at a game isn't among the most important qualifications for insightful analysis which is why gamers tend to make poor takes.

    The important qualifications are experience with analysis and formal knowledge in the arts, humanities, and some of the sciences. The YouTuber Noah Caldwell-Gervais is a good example. The guy sucks ass at twitch mechanics (ie. playing games) but he's extremely well-read and has extensive knowledge on many domains so he makes insightful analysis.

    Miyazaki doesn't even play his own games and probably sucks just as much ass at twitch mechanics but he's able to consistently direct amazing games because of his extensive knowledge and experience apart from playing well.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I don't think I've played a game with fairer difficulty options than Halo: CE. On the lowest difficulty, even your grandma with arthritis can beat it, and on the hardest it's an actual challenge without making enemies infallibly accurate bullet sponges. But if you can't do it that way, do it Michael Zaki's way.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    Try Nier Automata

    You can install chips in your brain that automates gameplay features. Like getting your turret to shoot automatically, making you melee attack automatically when you are in range, dodge automatically, ...

    You can really customize your difficulty to the point that the game basically plays itself.

    The only downside is that you miss out on using other cooler chip abilities.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Halo CE legendary was 100% an afterthought that Bungie threw a couple of multipliers in at the end because it makes like more than half of your potential loadout worthless lol.

    It was still fun, but god damn was it borderline annoying like you're playing a really unfair zombie survival game.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Dude be rocking that Sexto Rodriguez look hard.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    So. I'm on the side of more difficulty sliders please, but it's not just to get more people in the door. I want to be able to make games more difficult when I can too. I generally play on the hardest difficulty first, then lower it until I'm having fun.

    But there are games where making it easier cannot work, to my knowledge. A good example, I think, is Post Void, which is VERY inaccessible in a lot of ways (epilepsy warning, if you look up the game, even with the accessibility setting on, it's still bad). The visuals need accessibility options to be improved, but the gameplay really can't be made more accessible without severely harming the gameplay. At best you could add more starting time to the flask. I rolled hard off this game due to chronic illness, but I loved it. But I also hated it for similar reasons. Some games are just niche, and frankly, there's enough games out there that you don't have to play all of them.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Just allow users to mod the game to whatever difficulty they want and don't be dicks about it.

    Devs get to stick to their original vision and gamers get to have whatever difficulty they actually want to make things fun for them.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    That's just having actual accessibility and difficulty settings, but with extra steps.

    I appreciate the ability to mod games, but decent difficulty options really should be first-class citizens that the developers have put some thought into. Accessibility is important.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Some poor bastard actually buys a Kojima game to watch the cut scenes.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    I really don't feel like copying that name on my phone. What game does the 3rd one make?

    Also, I'm playing Stellar Blade, and I'm not sure I'd ever get through it without Easy mode.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I also didn't want to try typing the name, search suggestion helped me. I played a couple of his games and they weren't particularly difficult, so I assume it's referring to his later games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomonobu_Itagaki

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Yoshi P (FFXIV): "Yeah, the game was a huge cultural hit that grew more successful with each expansion, so I thought to myself.. now that we've brought in millions upon millions of players, why not nerf all of the overworld content into absurdity to bring in maybe forty or fifty noobs? So I did. And then I changed all of the classes again once everyone had reached max level. Nobody liked that. So I thought.. why not do it again?"

    Zenimax (ESO): "So I just kind of made up whatever and then dialed the difficulty down to about a tenth of what it used to be. Now overworld content is on par with swinging an aluminum bat through a pile of packing peanuts. Also, the Second Era was filled with superhero sky ninjas with lava wings who rode around Tamriel upon lightning horses and mechanical spiders. Deal with it."

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