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[–] 193 points 1 year ago (15 children)

Thanks for including the mirror, OP.

Companies that obtain mobile phone location data generally do it in two different ways. The first is through software development kits (SDKs) embedded in ordinary smartphone apps, like games or weather forecasters. These SDKs continuously gather a user’s granular location, transfer that to the data broker, and then sell that data onward or repackage it and sell access to government agencies.

The second is through real-time bidding (RTB). When an advert is about to be served to a mobile phone user, there is a near instantaneous, and invisible, bidding process in which different companies vie to have their advert placed in front of certain demographics. A side-effect is that this demographic data, including mobile phones’ location, can be harvested by surveillance firms. Sometimes spy companies buy ad tech companies out right to insert themselves into this data supply chain. We previously found at least thousands of apps were hijacked to provide location data in this way.

I really despise these practices. I don't know how people can build these tools with a clear conscience.

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  • [–] 67 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That’s easy. You just ignore your conscience because money speaks louder to these people.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Or you use confirmation bias to tell yourself it's an innocuous use case that won't hurt anyone.

    Or you use a bandwagon argument like "everybody else is doing it, so why can't we" or "everybody else is doing it so it doesn't make much difference if we do too"

    Or you use a library for ads such as the google-ads-api npm package, without checking it, so you don't realise how much data it's collecting on your users...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Or even worse, “if we don’t it, someone else will anyway”

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The Peter Thiel Paradox (also the name of my new wave band) "It's inevitable/you're only fighting progress, and any regulations will turn it into an authoritarian nightmare. Which is what it's turning into anyway because it's simply inevitable. So stop trying to resist by forcing regulations on this inevitable authoritarian nightmare that we had no way of stopping."

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Jesus fucking Christ. Time to delete the two games I’ve ever downloaded. Dunno if that even helps at this point.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    You can instead use apps which block trackers. I can recommend 3.

    Netguard with tracker filters enabled, PersonalDNS filter – a fire and forget DNS filter app, or Adguard android app from Adguard website.

    The 1st one needs payment to access some pro features but can also block internet connection to all your apps.

    The 2nd one is a simple DNS blocker which can have millions of rules and won't choke under the load.

    The last one is not Foss or available on fdroid like the 1st two are, but is much more powerful than the 1st two combined.

    Pick your tools and limit information now.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don’t know how people can build these tools with a clear conscience.

    Have you seen the job market for programmers lately? It feels like it's almost all for AI slop, abusive rentier middleman business models that add no real value, defense war contractors, or all of the above at once.

    That's not to say that it's acceptable for people to work those jobs with a clear conscience; it's to say that for a bunch of people the only ethical options would be to remain unemployed or leave the industry.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I've been seeing exactly that. Reading through these job descriptions is a bit depressing. I can't virtue signal my lack of morality and unthinking subservience to my potential employer hard enough to make cutoff to become "Director of AI Shilling" or a "Dark Pattern Consent Violation Engineer".

    I know the kind of environments that won't work for me. This will always limit the jobs I can and can't work and I'm generally okay with that. I would love some of that bountiful defence contractor money, but I can't ethically justify doing work that harms others or limits their freedom. Advertising tech would have been a good fit for me... if I had no sense of ethics.

    It's a tough realization that my gaming consoles, GPS Smart Watch, and fancy modern over-engineered car only became possible because tons of money was poured into building out related tech for defence and surveillance.

    I imagine the cognitive dissonance must be really strong in someone working for some of these companies that have monetized governmentally sanctioned or corporately opportunistic civil rights abuses. Then again, we're often kept apart, working in our own little areas where we're safe from having to see the whole horrifying machine.

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  • It’s the same for anyone who works for Meta or MS or Google or Anduril or whatever these days: you look at your comp package that’s worth roughly half a million annually, and you say

    They have been paying people to not have morals for quite a while now.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    build these tools with a clear conscience.

    Because if they don't their masters they will become destitute and starve while homeless

    And all social interaction happen at veiled gunpoint

    Under these conditions it is no surprise at all that conscience plays no role whatsoever, it is just a savage free-for-all for survival happening under our cursed star, an insane 10 billion years long churning of thinking meat, consciousness behind birthed into the wreckage, screaming uncomprehendingly at what is happened until it soon it is just as easily, mercifully and meaninglessly snuffed out again.

    Fortunately we have a shot at scorching the surface of this planet thanks to global warming and really the question is, can we make it happen before we genocide ourselves, leaving this planet's biosphere still capable of sustaining the horrors of life ?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You should really talk to some real in-the-flesh people.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    I met some real people this week, they were watching advertising.
    They thought the government cared about them.
    One wanted to upgrade their car to add another 100 horsepower they cannot use anywhere.
    Another told me, he does not like raising cows but he had to get more cows to make it more economical to raise cows.
    They were all bummed out that the end of the end of the week was upon us, and soon they would have to work 40 hours in the next 5 days, doing things they stopped liking doing a long time again, if they ever did at all.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If the government had a right to that data they wouldn't need to pay for it, they could just subpoena it. But they don't, so instead they're paying middle men to circumvent our rights.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Trump’s executive order just made anyone who is critical of his administrations criminal conduct a terrorist by royal decree. We all should be armed and prepared to defend ourselves and our families against tyranny. They’re “disappearing” people without accountability. The pedo king literally declared war on citizens for not conforming to his dictatorship. The military was instructed to commit war crimes against American citizens yesterday. ie:raping and pillaging. Am I misreading the situation?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Nope.

    He should be tried and executed for treason, but those in leadership positions in our country have betrayed their oaths. That means we all need to be armed to the fucking teeth as soon as possible.

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  • [–] 90 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    A proper Linux phone cannot come soon enough

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    As much as I would love to have a Linux phone, it will not fully help with privacy. The devices are logged into a cell tower and have a unique ID. This alone makes them trackable.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    A removable physical or electronic SIM on a system that has full control of inbound or outbound traffic (linux phone) would still be a whole lot better than nothing. Imagine having a switch to reliably sever any heartbeat signals between the tower and the device at any time.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If the spyware/tracking started and ended at the cell tower it would be a good start. I'm not sure the sensor data would be sent to the tower either. It would just be a general area.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I wish smartphones only tracked and sent data about your location. They gather every personal information you could and could not imagine about you. They analyze what you click like on socia media and all your circle of friends.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    A Linux phone could theoretically use other networks. You could pipe traffic through I2P or bounce it around multiple network types with reticulum. It’s actually theoretically possible to make a community mesh that doesn’t need cellular at all. I don’t NEED to carry the entire internet with me everywhere. I can carry a device with a cache of stuff I need but for everything else I can just connect to some sort of network to fetch it when I actually need it on demand.

    A Linux phone would let you do that. You can explore that possibility. Android and IPhone will never allow that because latency is shot on the alternative networks and they aren’t expensive enough to make a profit off of.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    This reminds me of something... What was it... Hmm...

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  • [–] [S] 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    And that was before the NSA leaks.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    And in case it wasn't already clear enough how absurd this all is, the creeps at Palantir are now actually so brazen as to officially call one of their mass surveillance systems "Project Gotham"...brave new world.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I guess calling it "Project Barad Dur" was a bit too on the nose after they named themselves Palantir.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Yes, maybe a bit much, but it would have been very fitting, since the marketing is obviously aimed specifically at the villains of the world—perhaps for the next project.

    It's quite telling of the times we live in that you can make it so obvious these days. You'd think that at least some concealment of the intentions behind these mass surveillance products would be appropriate, but I guess with people like Trump in the White House, Putin in the Kremlin, Netanyahu in Israel, and many others of that caliber, it's no longer necessary.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So they will know where I have been? Even though I am not American... I remember when the British government demanded that Apple give them that kind of information on all iPhone users all over the world and Apple told them to go fuck themselves.

    This is some real bullshit.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Because they will never quit. Ever. We need to get lucky and stop them every time (and I feel powerless beyond signing some petition online and maybe making a donation), but they need to get lucky once.

    And I cannot recall a single time that such laws were ever repealed. The patriot act has had some questionable efficacy and now ICE and the Trump administration want so many more additions that there is just no going back.

    Even in Canada, which never had an issue with terrorism, has passed many laws heavily infringing on people's freedoms and are trying to pass the biggest one yet with Bill C-2, even though it actually weakens border protections and gives American companies far, far more ability to surveil Canadians than ever before. This is when violence and terror threats have been greatly diminishing for years (and not because of some BS laws).

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, doing everything they can to make "land of the free" whiter.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago
    [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Looking forward to joining you guys in the upcoming rebellion.

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  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (41 children)

    Bro...my weather app is selling my data? 😦

    I just wanted up-to-date travel conditions in a convenient widget. My taxes already pay for the meteorology, why do they need to sell my data too??

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (13 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Show me one weather app that's state-sponsored (therefore: paid by taxes) that sells data to boost income.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Nearly every weather app that exists is repackaging data from an official, tax funded source. Apps using weather underground data possibly being the only exception.

    Show me one that doesn't want location permissions and such. So now they've got Your data and can do as they please with it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    To be fair, a weather app does need to know my location to give relevant information.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Nearly every weather app that exists is repackaging data from an official, tax funded source

    The weather source. Not the application source. A dude needs to sit down and write that part.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Sure, and it would be cool if that dude didn't pass my personal information to a third party.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Breezy Weather

    Not affiliated, just discovered this amazing app relatively recently.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My taxes already pay for the meteorology

    Yeah, but it got privatized, so now you need to pay more money to a 3rd party to access the services you are already paying money to access.

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  • [+] -19 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    If you want the weather info sponsored by your taxes, use the browser.

    If you want a convenient widget, someone needs to make it, and the developer who made that widget needs to eat too.

    You can either buy an app or pay with your data.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    and the developer who made that widget needs to eat too.

    He can eat without selling people's data.

    This isn't about putting food on the table and you're a dipshit if you believe otherwise.

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    He can eat without selling people’s data.

    Yes. By making your app paid, not free. 90% of Apple Store/Google Play store users don't want to pay for apps with their money.

    This isn’t about putting food on the table and you’re a dipshit if you believe otherwise.

    You're childishly naive if you think it's malice 100% of the way top to bottom.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Yes. By making your app paid, not free. 90% of Apple Store/Google Play store users don’t want to pay for apps with their money.

    No, by doing something else with his life because developing an app is not an all-encompassing behavior.

    You’re childishly naive if you think it’s malice 100% of the way top to bottom.

    No, I'm just not a useful idiot going to bat for people making money off of me.

    I, personally, have made significantly more complicated apps than what you're defending and I don't charge money for it or harvest my user's data. I'm also not alone.

    If we can do it, why can't this scumbag? Oh yeah, because he has useful idiots like you going to bat for him.

    Please, tell me more about how ignorant and innocent you are. It's cute and predictable.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    No, by doing something else with his life because developing an app is not an all-encompassing behavior.

    Buddy, are you suggesting that software developers should "do something else to earn money"?

    Are you high right now?

    No, I’m just not a useful idiot going to bat for people making money off of me.

    Go ahead. Quote the bit where anyone in this thread is batting for anybody.

    I, personally, have made significantly more complicated apps than what you’re defending

    I'm becoming fairly certain that you are high. What exactly am I defending....?

    If we can do it, why can’t this scumbag?

    We can't have a discussion if you don't understand some simple facts of life. Such as: "people need to eat", or "eating costs money", or "not everybody has the privilege of being a software developer as a side-gig", or "not everybody wants or can be a farmer".

    Please, tell me more about how ignorant and innocent you are. It’s cute and predictable.

    Get sober, then read what you wrote again.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah, morons like you will fight tooth and nail to avoid admitting you're being taken for a ride.

    It's in your blood and I don't expect more.

    Keep being stupid.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    You can either buy an app or pay with your data.

    No this implies you get a choice, which you don't. You can get it for free and sell your data, or you can pay for it...and still also sell your data. The real money is in the data, they won't give that up...ever.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Can you use an open source weather app, or is the problem deeper than that?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    you can deny location position to your weather app. show the weather for cities you are interested in. Get weather by notifications for "seemlessness"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I was just curious if the app could harvest it anyway via the SDK or something.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, that's true. Often people will take the money from users AND from selling data. But you can (usually) verify if that's the case by checking the app's permissions required.

    The point stands, however: you either pay for the software with money, or with data - with the only exception being the unusually rare FOSS project here and there, which either lives in relative obscurity or grows to become large enough for the creators to either start requiring money, or just fold under the load...

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  • [+] 39 points 1 year ago* (6 children)
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not just phone makers, but the telecom companies. Even if your phone shares no location data, it still checks in with a cell tower constantly. As you move around, so does your registration at a tower. It's accurate to about 2 miles. Match that with your known home address or work address and your location is easily guessed

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    They don't need the cooperation of telecom providers. They receive the same signal you send to the cell tower. Even if the signal is encrypted so they can't see what you are sending, they can identify that you are sending.

    With enough receivers listening, they can identify your location to a pretty high accuracy.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Anything that polls location data can record it and sell it, probably more apps that sell it than don't.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Privacy policies are irrelevant here. They are picking up unique data as your phone communicates with a cell tower. You can do it with a $15 RTL-SDR receiver.

    Get a hundred receivers and you can pinpoint anybody in a city.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Is it me or are these ice goons getting fatter everyday? Are they eating the immigrants?

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