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[–] 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Be the change you want to see in the world.

throws a Molotov at the next flying cruiser

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Bruh if you so much as spit on said cruiser you'll be wanted by the police for terrorism, despite the definition of terrorism being to threaten harm to civilians....

    Before I submit, I want to clarify that I have read the UK Government's definition of terrorism, and as it's a stupid ass definition, I elected to ignore it.

    "..as the use or threat of.. ..serious damage to property.. ..designed to influence the government.. ..for the purpose of advancing [an].. ..ideological cause."

    As we know, damaging property belonging to anyone else, regardless of how many people will be saved, is against the legal law and punishable. HOWEVER, going back to their own law...

    "..as the use or threat of.. ..serious violence against a person [OR] endangering a person's life (other than that of the person committing the action) [OR] creating a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public.. ..which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism regardless of whether or not the action is designed to.. ..intimidate the public.. ..for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.. ..Action includes action outside the United Kingdom."

    By their own law, any organisation intending to assist in the wilful and unprovoked violence against people, with explosives or firearms, is by their definition a terrorist. This defines the UK government and many companies as terrorists, coconspirators of Israel.
    The disclaimer "other than that of the person committing the action" absolves anyone of the definition if they are doing so to stop the attacker. This defines Palestine Action as innocent as they were acting to stop the attacking arms company.

    But the only reason these interpretations are not the case in reality is because the government a) choose which laws to uphold and when, and b) defend their decision by lying that the Palestinian people were the instigators of their own eradication by the various countries of the world.

    Sorry, I know this is just a meme

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oh totally. billionaires carbon footprint is many orders of magnitude larger than multiple lifetimes and generations of us normies. Abolish billionaires. Redistribute that wealth. The environmental future we want - NOW.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    And yet, there aren't very many of them but there are billions of us.

    Even if their lifestyles result in 1000x as much pollution, they only represent 0.00004% of the worldwide population, which is not enough to move the needle.

    To put that in perspective, metro Tokyo has a population of approximately 38 million. If the fraction of billionaires in Tokyo matches the global ratio, there would be about 15 billionaires in Tokyo. Anything 15 people do in Tokyo will be just noise compared to what the other 37,999,985 people do.

    Let's just pretend that all 3000 of the world's billionaires lived in the USA. They'd still only make up 0.001% of the entire US population. Even if they were flying around in personal jets, being followed by Airbus Beluga jets carrying their yachts, it would still pale in comparison to the sheer number of people currently suffering in economy class right now.

    live air traffic showing the thousands of planes currently in the air over the US

    I still think billionaires should be squashed by a hydraulic press, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking that doing that will have any impact on the environment at all. I support it more because they're greedy assholes who are taking far more than their share, and who are using their immense wealth to distort the well functioning governing of the world.

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  • [–] 62 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They tricked us into taking all the blame for climate change, so we’re busting our ass off to reduce and they don’t even pretend to care. In truth we could do more for the environment with guillotines than paper straws

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  • [+] 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Did they?

    I can't recall anyone ever being anything but nonplussed and skeptical about paper straws. From what I can tell, it was a product of a think tank that pushed into the news, which then caused businesses to treat that as though it were public demand and pushed it out to everyone, and most people shrugged, used the obviously inferior product (because it was free and the alternatives require attention), and then people got on with their day.

    On the wider scale this was pitched as 'the only thing you can personally do to combat climate change' - but I suspect it is the literal strawman of a figurative progressive position, purposely pushing a manufactured defective solution as a means to distract and suppress more substantive change and organization thereof.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm so confused by you guys, how is reducing the amount of single use plastics in the environment a bad thing?

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    [–] 59 points 1 year ago (20 children)
  • [–] [S] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah, but I'm terrible about carrying them with me

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Might get expensive to give one away with every drink

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah the last time I drank a can of coke it was crazy expensive. Like an entire dollar or some shit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I was thinking those proper metal ones, but if we're talking about some extremely thin aluminium straws then I'd more worry about how well they'd handle and if there's some other worries about them. Lots of metal trash probably

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    Metal straws are annoying to clean. You can’t just put them in the dishwasher, but have to use more water washing by hand and need to buy a specific tool just for that.

    But why are we using straws at all? Just say no

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    some people's necks don't bend right. straws are a medical device

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That’s where you’re going? Out of the billions of straws used every day, you’re concerned about the edge case where it’s medically useful? By all means go for the plastic single use. Medicine is a huge user of that and there’s no realistic alternative. Hospitals and nursing homes get universal exemptions. It’s also a tiny fraction of single use plastic straw waste.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    can i interrupt your whine to remind you i answered your question

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Thank you for interrupting our discussion of zebras where everything is striped black or white, by reminding us they’re striped light gray and dark gray

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    you wanted to know why people use them and "PFFF THATS AN EDGE CASE" do you feel this way about all disadvantaged groups or just the disabled?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    it’s literally the edge case, and insignificant to the actual point being made. you excused like a few thousand uses of the straw, maybe. don’t excuse the thousands of metric tons thrown out every year

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    edge cases are more important than the average person, fire alarms saving someone's life is an edge case the default is going off for no reason.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    what are you talking about?

    the equivalent use in your example would be the fire department getting an alarm for every building in the world multiple times a day being ok, because they might show up right when a fire breaks out!

    again, you are justifying thousands of pounds of land waste for the very few who might need to use a straw due to some medical issue.

    it would be better to not use straws, and just have them purchasable by those who need them for medical reasons.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Because my teeth are going bad and straws help

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    Thats something I wasn’t aware of, but clearly there are medical needs. I’m still confident that’s a small minority.

    You’re right that we need to stop trying to make things binary, like a blanket prohibition. But we should be able to just say no to casual use of single use plastic straws and the remaining exceptions are probably no big deal. It’s not the hundreds of thousands of medically useful single use plastic straws every day that are the problem. But the hundreds of millions, or billions, of casual use

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Fuck the billionaires that do that, but that doesn't mean that me using a straw isnt still making the shit worse. At least I can sleep at night knowing I am not making the situation worse, and I will still try to vote for politicians that are fighting against the billionaires

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The non mushy straws aren't terrible, but all rubberized tires are, whether on cars or bikes. The car ones are much worse.

    And air travel is even worse still

    But not close to industrial pollution which is exponentially greater.

    The billionaires could care more and put some R&D into it. They just dont.

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Agree with this take. It's like yeah electric cars are technically better, but any advantage they have over combustion engines is blown away by things like public transportation, or designing walkable/cyclable cities.

    Our solutions can't just rely on swapping out for "greener" tech. We need radical changes to how we are currently living in order to ensure a livable future.

    There is no future that is not radical. This gradualist, neolib (let's make sure all the investors get a chance to divest from dirty tech before switching!) fantasy will fuck us. It's been fucking us for a hundred years. It's time to try literally anything else.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    With adequate public transportation, it becomes much more comfortable and convenient.

    My city installed a few additional bike paths, and added some more buses, and the difference is huge.

    I don't even need a car except when traveling longer distances.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    You've got to invest in it before it gets good. You've got decades of car centric infrastructure inertia making cars the more convenient choice. All you've got to do is invest just enough to make alternatives actually possible.

    I don't know the challenges of your specific infrastructure, but there are certainly improvements that could be made

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Indeed, I think something's got to give if we're to have any future worth living. Probably very many things should change. I'm a bit of an misanthrope myself, so getting used to more communal arrangements is painful.

    Would you be more likely to champion a less attractive option if it was part of a larger initiative to make a better world?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Sorry, but I am confiscating your moral license if the straw you use is justification.

    The straw you use does nothing but make you feel better, which I would argue is harmful. You shouldn't feel better for doing nothing when such large problems exist.

    Your use of the right straw is akin to you killing a single invasive ant in a rain forest, and saying you did your part to remove the invasive colony. You then spend every opportunity talking about how you killed that single ant, all while the ants have already multiplied and utterly nullified your non-effort contribution.

    Shipping barges, data centers, meat production, gas and coal burning are all many orders of magnitudes greater problems than what straw you use. Gas, coal, and fossil fuel use is over 70% of all emissions, so that should be the primary conversation. In addition, these are all growing in use. Talk about that. Put your attention and action towards that.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The straw is a metaphor for doing what you can in your own world no matter how small, not the absolute culmination of all the good that we've done.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    We can all do much more than straws.

    Edit: let me rephrase this. Unless you are a billionaire, there is nothing you can do individually that matters. The problem requires banding together and holding these people accountable. This requires honest communication so people at least understand what the real problem is.

    Given we are barely at the honest communication stage and ignorance is running rampant, and that we have a fast approaching deadline before nothing we do will work, I do not have much optimism for the survival of our species.

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    [–] 106 points 1 year ago (38 children)

    While this scum is allowed allocate all of the world's resources; every drop of water you conserve goes to their data centers and pleasure fleets.

    There is no conservation until they're gone. It simply cannot be done.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Companies 3 years ago: helping the environment is part of our core values

    The same companies one day later: start to heavily use and train AI

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    you are being generous. They are more like

    "Under enlightened Trump's benevolent leadership we have realized that environmental concerns, inclusivity, modern medicine and preventing political misinformation are all woke scams. Therefore effective immediately we are ditching all our efforts in these directions."

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  • [–] 45 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    I mean yes, but it's not like they use an extra drop for every drop conserved, it's still okay to not be wasteful.

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  • [+] -22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    why is your local council providing 2 bins but sending everything to the one place?

    when you bought it up what did they say?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    https://www.npr.org/2022/10/24/1131131088/recycling-plastic-is-practically-impossible-and-the-problem-is-getting-worse

    Recycling centers try and then often give up and just landfill plastic. And then you're dealing with the extra transportation to have it make a stop at the recycling plant on the way to the landfill.

    There is a lot of "shift the blame off corporations to the consumer and act like they can do something" happening when in reality the consumer can't do much, and what we can do isnt 100% effective anyway.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    That's funny because over here in Australia it looks to be progressing well?

    For us it's a yellow bin for recycling

    Visy – what happens to your household recycling

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXSmINKUOxg

    Most Australian states have a 10c refund when you return a can or bottle:

    https://www.qld.gov.au/environment/circular-economy-waste-reduction/reduction/container-refund/container-refund-types

    Do you have this?

    You can even then directly donate it to a charity of your choice: https://www.containersforchange.com.au/qld/donate-your-refund

    On top of this if you use https://oceanhero.today/ for searching the money they make from ads goes towards paying people in poor countries to collect plastic

    Australia wide we're slowly phasing out single use plastics:

    https://www.marineconservation.org.au/which-australian-states-are-banning-single-use-plastics/

    That's already reducing the amount of plastic by millions of tons

    There's also smaller things like:

    Our new cards are made from 100% recycled plastic*, with 64% collected from coastal communities by Parley for the Oceans™.

    https://www.bankaust.com.au/card

    Recycling centers try and then often give up and just landfill plastic

    Sounds like defeatist mentality to me, your councils/states should be doing better

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Canada's west coast is the same. Despite some reports implying the contrary, properly sorted flexible plastic waste does get diverted away from landfills and oceans and remade into product, in BC. And we also have bottle and can deposits, like most Canadian provinces (called consigne/consignment in Québec).

    Apparently bottle deposits are only a thing in 10 of 50 US states.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Bread tags? What do they do instead? The only choices Ive seen are a stupid plastic tile or a wire, and I can’t imagine single use wire is better than a stupid single use plastic tile

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    cardboard :D

    https://playandgo.com.au/australias-first-100-recycled-recyclable-cardboard-bread-tags-tip-top/

    The new bread tags will launch on South Australian shelves first, removing 11 million plastic bread tags from South Australian waste streams by the end of 2021 and divert over 400 million plastic bread tags from landfill each year as they roll out nationally. By 2025, all Tip Top’s packaging will be 100 per cent recyclable, reusable or compostable to help close-the-loop

    afaik they're all cardboard now even other brands, I don't think I've seen a plastic one in a while

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Neat. Do they work, or do they just bend the first time you recluse a bag?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    It's more than just plastic. In most places most things are not recycled. More accurate to say: in vanishingly few places is even a single kind of thing recycled. Then every scrap we save goes not to sustainability, but golf courses pleasure yachts and data centers to sloppify the world.

    So saving is not conservation. You literally cannot make a positive impact environmentally unless you're good at violence.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That’s needlessly pessimistic, but I’ll believe general consumer recycling programs are not very effective.

    • I know my composting program does something because I can give them food waste and get back compost
    • I know can recycling works because there is an entire industry supporting it, plus aluminum is energy intensive and I’ve repeatedly read it is the most recycled material
    • I know electronics recycling works because it’s expensive
    • I believe industrial recycling works because they have bulk quantities of pure material and there’s generally profit somewhere.

    Most of all I believe my city’s consumer recycling is fairly effective because of the number of things they have specific steps/actions/destinations for. More importantly we don’t have a landfill and the one we use is very expensive, so there’s a profit motive for minimizing what we dispose of

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (18 children)

    While this scum is allowed allocate all of the world’s resources; every drop of water you conserve goes to their data centers and pleasure fleets.

    Does it? If everyone in America reduced the amount of water they used would data centres and yachts use it all up? Do you believe this?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    He didn’t mean water literally (yet, as we are running out of non-salt water…)

    But we have (and likely will) if it were to come to rationing their pools would be prioritized our bath or even drinking water

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    He didn’t mean water literally

    It's still nonsensical, this idea that any savings at all are pointless particularly when you're talking about small impact spread across 350 million americans and 400 million europeans, it adds up to far more than any data centre could ever hope

    Take solar panels for example and the impact they have had:

    https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/energy/nem/?range=all&interval=1M&view=discrete-time&group=Detailed

    We're now emitting 5-8 million LESS tons of co2 per month and regularly have oversupply because there's too much renewables in the grid:

    We now have a booming battery rebate because we need far more storage than solar:

    Since the launch of the Cheaper Home Batteries Program on July 1, roughly 161MW of home battery power has been added to the grid per month. At the current pace, the amount added in about 18 months will match the output of Eraring power station – Australia’s biggest coal-fired power plant

    https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/battery-rebate-to-deliver-a-coal-plant-of-power-in-18-months/

    This is just from regular people like you or I making a small contribution that benefits themselves and the environment

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/remarkable-record-day-of-wind-and-solar-curtailment-as-renewables-surge-and-rooftop-pv-holds-sway/

    Same with mushy straws but tbh we don't even really do that anymore do you guys not have something like

    The Planet Straw eco-friendly, Biodegradable, Compostable, and Recyclable, Planet-based PHA straws

    https://planetpak.com.au/

    They're basically a drop in for plastic straws you wouldn't know the difference

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    And still globally the fraction of renewables in electricity gen, and even primary energy consumption (counting renewable elec gen as "primary"), remains pretty steadfast at the levels of the 1990s. The basic reason is that they're subsidising electricity, making it cheaper and people ( and I count both final consumers and intermediate producers as "people") are using more of it. The only meaningful hiatuses in the growth of demand was the major recessions in 2008 and 2020, but consumption largely bounced back after those.

    Savings are not totally pointless, but reducing prices of something does tend to increase consumption, and erode a notable amount (but granted probably not all) of savings. The earth's human economy is largely set up to extract and use resources, give it more resources and it grows and extracts and uses more. We're not going to let large amounts of cheap (or subsidised) resources sit there and go unexploited.

    Adding new generation capacity has some similarity to adding a new lane to a busy highway. Induced demand.

    From a Europe/EEC point of view It has been major restriction on coal generation (LCPD, IED, and to a minimal extent the EU-ETS) - that has reduced coal use in generation. Renewables doesn't directly drive out fossil fuel gen , I think it has to be regulated out. Same will be with transport, if you don't ban petrol, and just subsidise electric transport, there'll be more trips you wont reduce petrol consumption. And even if you could ban petrol in cars, someone somewhere will start finding a way to use all that cheap fuel for something. The only saving grace for transport is that electric mass transit is way more efficient , than personal transport, and at least China knows what its doing on that front. But I'd be very worried for the planet as more and more people in India continue to start getting cars - I think they'll easily become a market for any petrol saved by EVs elsewhere..

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    And still globally the fraction of renewables in electricity gen, and even primary energy consumption (counting renewable elec gen as “primary”), remains pretty steadfast at the levels of the 1990s

    I think this might be out of date info, renewables (thanks mainly to china tbh) are now the cheapest form of power and surging with installations:

    World surpasses 40% clean power as renewables see record rise

    https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/global-electricity-review-2025/#executive-summary

    Savings are not totally pointless, but reducing prices of something does tend to increase consumption

    Good old Jevons

    Adding new generation capacity has some similarity to adding a new lane to a busy highway. Induced demand.

    I don't agree with this, yes there is an increase in energy usage, I am technically using more electricity than ever from thanks to cheap solar because I fill up my car with 40kw worth of electricity every few weeks, but at the same time I now use 0L of petrol and no gas at all so it's not exactly adding a lane to the highway if I've reduced my energy use elsewhere and added it on to renewables, it's the same number of lanes but now I'm 100% renewable

    We also have visible signs it's eating into fossil fuels:

    Closure of Spain’s biggest coal plant makes way for massive wind power development

    https://beyondfossilfuels.org/2023/08/22/closure-of-spains-biggest-coal-plant-makes-way-for-massive-wind-power-development/

    UK to finish with coal power after 142 years

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y35qz73n8o

    The Australian Energy Market Operator is predicting that the country’s remaining coal fired generators are likely to close much quicker than expected, saying they are becoming less reliable, more difficult to maintain and less able to compete with the growing share of renewables.

    AEMO’s draft 2024 Integrated System Plan, the latest version of its 30-year planning blueprint, suggests coal fired generation will be gone from Queensland and Victoria within a decade – by 2033/34 – and that the last coal unit will close in NSW by 2038.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/aemos-jaw-dropping-prediction-for-coal-power-all-but-gone-from-the-grid-in-a-decade/

    Same will be with transport, if you don’t ban petrol, and just subsidise electric transport, there’ll be more trips you wont reduce petrol consumption

    This doesn't make sense to me, if you were talking about cheaper petrol then sure, but if I replace my petrol car with an EV, even if I do more trips it's still electricity, petrol usage has dropped to 0 despite an increase in trips

    And we're still in the very early years with EV's, we have only just started pushing out electric trucks and buses, speaking of: Brisbane just got our first electric buses earlier in the year!

    Onboard the new Brisbane Metro (now with added Chilli)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oWDE4zh2FA

    They are so quiet it's crazy!

    tldr: I think your premise is that electricity usage is increasing and renewables are supplying it but not eating into fossil fuels and I don't think this is true, the last few years solar, EV and battery innovation has been leaps and bounds

    As an example I bought this in Jan 2023 for 14k: https://sonnen.com.au/sonnenbatterie-evo/

    10kw

    Today for 5.5k I can get 40kw:

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/922035

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    OK, I'll wait til the 2024 and 2025 data are out and see the radical change - but the past 30 years pretty much support my "outdated" view. I don't accept that you putting no petrol in your car means petrol consumption is lower - someone else can (and almost certainly will) still use it somewhere somehow in some vehicle or other. Unless you're still buying it and burying in the ground somewhere no one can find it.

    https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/data-tools/energy-statistics-data-browser?country=WORLD&fuel=Energy%20supply&indicator=TESbySource

    In short - top line goes up faster than the renewables wedge grows ---> global warming increases. In fact the fossil fuel wedges also grow as much or more than renewables. Maybe this will become more than a blip - maybe. But realistically I look at the graph above and 2008, 2020 are the things that stand out as a lesson.

    People need fewer datacentres not more, wherever they're located. I think people just need to take a long hard look at themselves and see whether they can survive by jerking off to 360p or 720p porn - it is just about exactly as hollow and unfulfilling as jerking off to 4K AI generated porn.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I wouldn't use datacenters if I could get a static ip address, or even just ipv6, but those are more expensive than just renting a vm in a far away place

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    yeah i'd not walk to the shops if i had a car, so convenient and easy. oh hang on, nah, that's total bollocks, driving a car is such fucking torture compared to walking, fuck that shite. /not s

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    it is just about exactly as hollow and unfulfilling as jerking off to 4K AI generated porn.

    gasp I can't believe you said that in front of my 4k ai girlfriend!

    top line goes up faster than the renewables wedge grows —> global warming

    Yeah but there's two parts here, one is that it's not us or the data centres:

    In contrast, India recorded the highest absolute increase in emissions, adding 164.8 Mt CO2eq compared to 2023, a 3.9% rise. Indonesia saw the most significant relative increase at 5%, followed by Russia (+2.4%) and China (+0.8%). The US and Brazil had relatively stable emissions with minor increases.

    https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-hit-a-record-high-in-2024/197979/

    India adding 164 million tons of co2 more than it did the year before, that's a shitload of data centres

    The EU and US and Australia/NZ/UK all have emissions trending down, we're playing our part, this place beats itself up a lot when if the rest of the world was like us we'd be well on our way down

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I think they're just catching up to what countries like the UK did over the past 200 years. So a few hundred thousand more Indian people can afford cars or international holidays these days - that seems fair enough. what's the indian GHG emisiions per capita? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions_per_capita sorry still old data, but 2023 they were not much over half the UK , so what is the fair share of ghg emissions for a person in India? Any why should it be lower than , say, UK - who has a centuries old legacy of fucking the climate. The UK has a hell of a lot more reducing ghg per person to do before it can be any sort of role model -b and thats after nerfing it's own heavy industry and not counting GHG embodied in imports.

    Back before the twats here (UK) had let the banks offshore domestic manufacturing, you might have had a point, but greenhouse gas intensity of the economy here in UK was a lot higher when we actually did shit like transforming iron ore into useful products.

    With widespread international supply chains for so much stuff, I'm not convinced by nationalistic parochialism. At least not without doing a lot of fairly complex import/export and supply / use analysis across industries and from primary through to tertiary to figure out who is really providing for whom.

    The simplistic way i see it; It's a world full of humans (or as i like to say, cunts), they do stuff, they trade their products. some people directly do carbon intensive processes, others buy stuff off them. At the end of the day, if everyone was 'postindustrial', it'd be a very interesting and different 'economy' and i think very different lifestyles, and a very different capacity to support the human population. I'd like to think the bubble'd last about as well as the Hindenburg blimp.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I disagree with measuring in per capita, I argued further here: https://aussie.zone/post/25024450/19010578

    Any why should it be lower than , say, UK - who has a centuries old legacy of fucking the climate

    Because the tech wasn't available at the time and now with renewables being the cheapest form of electricity it's straight up insulting that you'd pick coal, gas I can understand due to its ability to quickly fill in for solar/wind gaps but coal... :|

    If you're going to argue that India should be free to copy the west and build coal power plants like we did 50 years ago before solar/batteries/wind etc took off then what are we even doing here? lets just give up because if India lives like the west did 60 years ago it's over

    some people directly do carbon intensive processes, others buy stuff off them

    This part I agree with, it comes up a lot lately with AI data centres, people from the west devastated that they have to host the stuff that they use 😭 but also whenever mining is involved people get really upset, especially people in the EU

    I've argued the EU and US in part run a false green economy, the lithium and critical minerals in your phones and computers has to come from somewhere and mining has an awful environmental impact locally. Saying your green but ignoring that you get China do it isn't a win at all imo, it's a joke.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Per capita is not relevant to climate change, but it is relevant to understand the situation lifestyles motivation and economic development of people. I think there has to be a concept of a fair share.

    'Keep them foreigners poor because we fucked up the planet' is not going to convince many people - outside of those who drink the greenwash koolaid and don't see that we continue to emit way more than our fair share. Granted the UK is in about the worst position here, because of history that meant countries like India effectively were forced to pay the UK to fuck it up so its a double fuck-you if i were to say that.

    India just won't stay poor anyway and no one is going to stop western and middle eastern oil companies wanting more cars in 'emerging markets' .

    I'm not saying they should replicate UK as it was in 1980. But if we're so clean now, having achieved what i call ' far too little, far too late' why can't developing countries catch up their lifestyles to ours today - the answer is we're not clean and they shouldn't - but they probably will and I can't blame them for it.

    China must laugh at shitholes like the UK, can't build Nukes (hinkley point C is what 10-12 years and counting behind schedule?) , can't build high speed rail, can't invest in decent public transportation, doesn't build hydro because of fucking poets and fucking daffodils and yokels fucking sheep, and tries at every turn to follow US's stupendously inefficient and self indulgent 'sprawl' model or housing instead of densifying population efficiently.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    You're right that the UK isn't in tip top shape, I would have loved to have visited the UK 20 years ago and I sit here today amazed that Nigel Farage, the guy who lead England up shit creek without a paddle ON PURPOSE is leading the polls... that's pretty dire.

    But you do have something you can be proud of, your emissions have dropped tremendously:

    While India

    and China

    Have blown the UK away, if more countries were like the UK we'd be talking about how the war on climate change was won with flying colours.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Non-comparable! In say California there is severe water restrictions even limits shower lengths at times yet pools can still be filled… If the rich weren’t allowed to take up inorbitant amounts of resources say for bezos private airspace tourism or megajacts then there would be a lot more left to us…

    But lets talk about personal impact too! Imagine if instead of leaving it to up you to maybe change something the country made the investment? Like it could from the subsidies provided for the solar panels in most countries ( know for a fact thats the case in the us, Germany and Hungary)! And then then the change wouldn’t be a few percentage points, it would actually be considerable!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Nobody:

    Larry Ellison: Buys an entire 90,000 acre Hawaiian Island just because

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