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[–] 85 points 1 year ago (8 children)

me: the fuck is a groyper?!?

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago
    [–] 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The billionaire class wants a class war against the worker class so they can further shift wealth and power to themselves, but they certainly aren’t going to fight it themselves, and they can’t have a proxy class-war without two sides to fight it. The only way to get two sides is to vilify the less-gullible side by duping the more-gullible side into fighting members of their own class on their behalf.

    MAGA rubes are being manipulated into turning against their neighbors. And maybe the left are being manipulated too, maybe I’m too far left to see it.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (31 children)

    Is there anything that is actually conclusive about what his views were? Like his social media accounts, his discord history?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Imagine someone engraving bullets with "Heil Hitler" and doing salutes on his socials.

    Is it conclusive proof he's a nazi? I guess not, but it's a pretty big fucking hint.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Dunno about his socials (because really I couldn't care less who killed that piece of shit), but pretending the bullet engravings were anywhere near as clear as "heil hitler" would be can't be serious. It's more like if he had some random version of pepe engraved on them. Hints that he could be a groyper but by no means conclusive.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (24 children)

    None. There is zero definitive evidence of which side of the aisle he is on. The right wants him to be left and the left wants him to be right. Some on the right want justice, some want vengeance. Most on the left are celebrating either way, some didn’t agree with Kirk but didn’t believe he should die for his views.

    Then you have the people in the center of the aisle that just want to be left alone and don’t care. Both the left and right hates these people.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    some didn’t agree with Kirk but didn’t believe he should die for his views.

    I just need to call this part out because it keeps getting repeated. I don't think hardly anybody thinks he deserved to die for his views. His actions, on the other hand, really get people's attention.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    Yeah, no one should die for their views, but also, I aint gonna more some fuckong fascist jackass or even cry over it in anyway. I am, frankly, mostly indifferent to it. Its not going to make anything better ultimagely, somenother talking idiot hole will fill the gap in the hate machine.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    And a fair chance he isn't on any side in particular. The team sports model of politics isn't everything...

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Completely agree. I’m a center aisle guy myself. Hell, I don’t even wanna be center. I don’t even wanna be in the same room 😂

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    You got downvoted because everyone on the left thinks 'I'm centrist' is just something ppl say to disguise themselves whilst they say a bunch a right-wing shit; everyone on the right thinks the war has already begun, you gotta nail your flag to the mast, and why hide how you really feel; and everyone who's actually in the centre gave up discussing politics on social media years ago because it's detrimental to your mental health.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    I got downvoted because I’m a big bag of contradictions. I’m neither “this” or “that” I hold beliefs and views from all sides. So it’s easier for folks to just downvote and belittle than try to understand.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Oh really? Well you've made me think about the issues I split out into sides:

    • climate change: it's bad / fuck it
    • trans ppl: they cool / they're a perversion of gods design
    • God: idk whatever / The Christian God
    • guns: dangerous! Restrict! / I need guns
    • immigration: ok / not ok
    • women: human / subhuman
    • state funded healthcare: yes plz / no tnx
    • public transport: love it / hate it
    • bikes: I am literally a bike / I literally just killed a bike

    These aren't all aligned. Probably not all of them are a left/right divide to you. They're probably not even all 100% applicable to your lived reality - not everybody has spent much time thinking about God - but I am curious where you think you're left and where you think you're right, or what I'm missing from my incredibly glib yet serious list.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    climate change: it’s bad / fuck it
    trans ppl: they cool / they’re a perversion of gods design
    God: idk whatever / The Christian God
    guns: dangerous! Restrict! / I need guns
    immigration: ok / not ok
    women: human with all human rights especially reproductive rights / subhuman
    state funded healthcare: yes plz / no tnx
    public transport: love it / hate it
    bikes: I am literally a bike / I literally just killed a bike

    ding ding (ringing my bike bell)

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Ok first I wanna commend you for actually trying to understand. Even if pretending. It means a lot. To answer your list.

    Climate change- no opinion. It changes daily. Or I’m just too dumb to understand it.

    Trans ppl- I am a Christian so naturally I don’t agree with it. BUT, I am not like the crazed lunatic Christians that will belittle them, berate them and talk down upon them. Or tell them they are a “perversion of Gods creation” or an abomination. They’re still human. I am human also. Who am I to judge?

    God- I am a Christian. More specifically a Southern Baptist Christian. Like I said previously though, I like to think not like some of the crazed lunatic Christians out there. From an early age I was taught to love all walks of life. My church has a saying. Be it cliche or whatever. But the saying is this— “Hate the sin. Love the sinner.”

    Guns- Absolutely dangerous. I’m Pro-2A. There’s some unhinged ppl out there that just shouldn’t own firearms. Mental health evaluation and gun safety courses should be mandatory before being able to purchasing any firearm.

    Immigration- 1000% ok. But only when done through the proper and legal channels. My family immigrated to the US many years ago from Ireland so I cannot get on board with illegal immigration.

    Women- Human, obviously. None of us would be here without them.

    State funded healthcare- not educated enough on this matter to have an opinion.

    Public transport- could work in larger cities/metro areas. But what about rural areas? How well would that work? Genuinely asking.

    Bikes(?)- motor or pedal? I don’t understand this one.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Climate change- no opinion. It changes daily. Or I’m just too dumb to understand it.

    Then listen to the experts, who all agree it's 1) man made, and 2) going to make life difficult for us. And no it doesn't change daily. That's the weather, the weather changes daily, but the weather isn't the climate. Climate change affects the weather, causing more extreme weather events, but it's not the same.

    Trans ppl- I am a Christian so naturally I don’t agree with it. BUT, I am not like the crazed lunatic Christians that will belittle them, berate them and talk down upon them. Or tell them they are a “perversion of Gods creation” or an abomination. They’re still human. I am human also. Who am I to judge?

    You don't agree with what? With who they are? How is that a thing to disagree on? Did you choose to be cis? Neither do they choose to be trans.
    Listen to the experts.

    God- I am a Christian. More specifically a Southern Baptist Christian. Like I said previously though, I like to think not like some of the crazed lunatic Christians out there. From an early age I was taught to love all walks of life. My church has a saying. Be it cliche or whatever. But the saying is this— “Hate the sin. Love the sinner.”

    As long as you or your church aren't advocating that we all have to follow your church's doctrine, I have no issues with this.

    Guns- Absolutely dangerous. I’m Pro-2A. There’s some unhinged ppl out there that just shouldn’t own firearms. Mental health evaluation and gun safety courses should be mandatory before being able to purchasing any firearm.

    On this we agree.

    Immigration- 1000% ok. But only when done through the proper and legal channels. My family immigrated to the US many years ago from Ireland so I cannot get on board with illegal immigration.

    And how do you think the "proper and legal channels" should look like. Especially for people fleeing their homeland because of events happening there.

    Women- Human, obviously. None of us would be here without them.

    Sure, but do they have bodily autonomy? Can they choose to have an abortion? (see my point under the "god" section)

    State funded healthcare- not educated enough on this matter to have an opinion.

    Fair enough

    Public transport- could work in larger cities/metro areas. But what about rural areas? How well would that work? Genuinely asking.

    Buses and trains work long distance too. Would you like the option for people to go to the city from your rural town, even if they don't own a car or if their car has broken down? A bus service could do that. Even if it only runs once per 2 hours or so.

    Bikes(?)- motor or pedal? I don’t understand this one.

    I think they're talking about bike lanes.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Buses and trains work long distance too

    It's less about the distance and more about the distribution. It's really hard to come up with solid bus routes to cover how rural America is distributed. My area has been trying repeatedly to extend the municipal mass transit into even the suburban areas and has struggled to come up with any vaguely decent coverage. You basically need people to move into a more orderly arrangement.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    And how do you think the "proper and legal channels" should look like. Especially for people fleeing their homeland because of events happening there.

    Now you’ve elaborated on the subject of immigration further than the original commenter. I’ll do my best to answer with the limited knowledge I do have.

    By proper and legal channels I mean applying for a visa or green card through the USCIS. From what I know/understand a visa/green card can be obtained/applied for through Family Sponsorship, Employment-Based Visa Program, Humanitarian Program, and (I admittedly had to look this one up) the Diversity Visa Lottery which sounds like it’s for people from countries with low immigration to the U.S.

    Now to more specifically answer your refugee question— I absolutely believe that these people should be allowed to come to the U.S. But like I said, legally. And heck, maybe even have their citizenship (if they so choose to become citizens) fast-tracked due to the extenuating circumstances from which they escaped from.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Thank you for writing that down, seems fair enough to me.

    But like I said, legally.

    Most people try to do it legally, if the option is there.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Thank you for taking the time to ask questions and try to understand my views and beliefs without vilifying me for it. It was a nice change of pace from the typical argument that usually happens.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm trying to better myself, and not assume so much about other people.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Likewise. It’s kind of why I’m here. I got very irate with someone on Reddit a few days ago. Something I had not done in a very long time. But I said some things that I should not have that got me a permaban from Reddit. So here I am with a fresh mind, trying to be a better person.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I am a Christian so naturally I don’t agree with it. BUT, I am not like the crazed lunatic Christians that will belittle them, berate them and talk down upon them. Or tell them they are a “perversion of Gods creation” or an abomination. They’re still human. I am human also. Who am I to judge?

    I've met Christians who never once denied my identity or acted like accepting me was fundamentally against their faith. I could argue that trans identities are a natural and evolved phenomenon, but you don't seem scientifically inclined. Would anything ever change your mind to recognize us as who we say we are?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Honestly, I’m not sure. Truly I am not sure. I will say though that I don’t like to think that I deny the trans community in what they say they are. I’m trying to explain this as best as I know how without any misunderstanding cuz that tends to happen over text since there’s zero indication of tones and whatnot. Anyways, like if you are what you say you are and you are happy then that’s great. Fantastic even. I’m happy for you. Truly I am. I will sit here and wish you and all of the trans community nothing but absolute happiness and success in life.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It has a lot to do with fundamentals of why you believe what you believe. Did you just get lucky and not get taught to reject and scorn people who don't fit your worldview? Would you ever reconsider your spiritual understanding with new information on how the world appears to be, and if so, what would be fundamental and what would not?

    On a more practical level, how much would you actually support our happiness? Would you have a problem with supportive parents letting their children use professionally guided medication avoid the pain of a puberty they never wanted? If the medications adults currently use to feel comfortable in our skin are made illegal, would you have a problem with us breaking the law to get it? Would you be ok with it because of our dire need, or would it be similar to how you view illegal immigration?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    On a more practical level, how much would you actually support our happiness? Would you have a problem with supportive parents letting their children use professionally guided medication avoid the pain of a puberty they never wanted? If the medications adults currently use to feel comfortable in our skin are made illegal, would you have a problem with us breaking the law to get it? Would you be ok with it because of our dire need, or would it be similar to how you view illegal immigration?

    You’re talking about puberty blockers for children?

    At risk of looking like a fool I decline to answer this fully due to not having a full understanding of it.

    So I’ll ask this instead— Why are they illegal? Is it a fundamental/moral reason? Or is there a medical reason? Like they haven’t been able to figure out how to get the dosage or whatever low enough for children to safety be able to take?

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  • In effect, almost everyone ends up going through some form of puberty by default. There are temporary effects that can be reversed at any point by the opposite hormones, but many effects are permanent and costly to adjust later. Going through male puberty at default ages makes you grow taller and sprout permanent facial hair, while you don't grow as tall with female puberty and gain breasts which are even harder to remove.

    The care for trans minors seeks to delay puberty for a couple years, but this is cannot be done for too long, or the window for certain development is missed. As such, anyone who takes puberty blockers eventually has to go down either path. The consequences are that certain things cannot be reversed, so it's important to get the puberty right the first time whether that be a trans or cisgender one.

    With proper therapy and informed consent to discover what the teen truly wants, it is safe and effective at preventing pain for trans kids and giving kids who decide medical transition isn't right for them an appropriate out. A member of my family explored their gender as a minor, but didn't medically transition, so I will not say people don't change their minds. However, that option for people confident in their gender at an early age does save them the horror of watching their body change without being able to stop it.

    As far as why it gets made illegal, it is usually not people who are friendly to trans folks doing it. It is usually an effort to eventually ban all trans care, as saying "think of the children" gets people on board. In states like Florida that restricted care for minors, there were less advertised restrictions on adult care that occurred at the same time (preventing medicare from funding it and the like). They put their desire to not see more trans people exist first, and put empirical reality second.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Not sure why I'm engaging, but what the hell...

    Climate change - yes, too dumb to understand. Actually, I think you are being willfully ignorant. "It changes daily"? Wtf?

    Trans ppl - "I am a Christ so naturally I didn't agree" wtf? Didn't agree with what?

    That's as far as I could get. I think you are unwilling to challenge what you were raised to believe was right, and you operate out of an unconscious assumption that it couldn't simply be unfounded.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    i honestly don’t care, i am celebrating either way.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago*

    It was Serbian alien from planet Nibiru (whole universe is Serbian, God is serbian too) you don't believe me, ask Jovanka Jolić she knows everything.

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  • [–] 91 points 1 year ago (44 children)

    There is no conclusive evidence yet and people need to fucking stop pretending there is.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    fr, we don't need to swing right back the other way

    let the right make unproven claims, and then bury them for it after, if appropriate

    and in any case, we can still say that Kirk was a shitty person, that we do not mourn his death, that the world is better off without his messages of hate; and none of that is at odds with holding the view that he shouldn't have been killed, even if he himself is on record stating that democrats should be killed.

    I'm annoyed by all the partial context quotes of Kirk's, too. he said enough bad shit that has full context that we don't need to exaggerate the possibly-misleading stuff at all

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Agree except for just letting the right make unproven claims. The consistent message right now is no one knows.

    Besides, the shooter was an individual, his specific ideology doesn't by itself say much about the "left" or "right".

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I just want to appreciate the eloquency of your statement. I have been saying essentially the same thing, but not quite put as well, so I am stealing this!

    I've also been saying I wish it was a true judge and jury that would have locked him away and silenced his hatred instead of some vigilante, but that is when I am feeling like irritating specific people.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    then bury them for it after

    after what? after they start killing/jailing innocent people they deem "radical leftist"?... after they take complete control of the narrative? (they are 98% there)

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (38 children)

    The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, though. The kid was born in crackerstan. Non-Republican's there are about as common as non-whites. He's the result of a long-term breeding experiment that investigates what would happen if you concentrated all the most gullible/ignorant people into a single space. Their Republican governor literally prayed to their god, that the person guilty of the crime was an outsider/other that they could all openly admonish and attack. acknowledging in a Freudian manner, just how bad and demented people in the area are because of the cult. His whole family are sympathizers for the fascists.And much like Mormonism is the dumbest of an already dumb religion. He somehow found a dumber sect than the dumbest sect of politics his family was already in.

    About all the kid was confused and conflicted. Generally very conservative and Republican by any measure.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    The kid was born in crackerstan. Non-Republican’s there are about as common as non-whites.

    this is demographics, not evidence.

    He’s the result of a long-term breeding experiment that investigates what would happen if you concentrated all the most gullible/ignorant people into a single space.

    ???

    Rest of post is a screed about how you don't like Utah. Not evidence.

    I have seen no evidence either way this guy was a leftist, or a groyper, or anything. People out there WISH he was something so they can wrap this whole thing up and explain it away, without acknowledging that people with fulfilling lives and hopeful futures don't do things like this.

    His whole family are sympathizers for the fascists

    So are mine, and here I am, posting on lemmy.ml

    Slow your roll. Post evidence or stop muddying the waters.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I never said it was evidence. You simply took the least relevant portion of a full statement to misrepresent it. The full statement was that their political diversity wasn't any better than their ethnic diversity, which you have agreed is factual demographics.

    Of all the stupid things Missourians have done, us running the Mormons out of the state wasn't one of them.Utah is run by a conglomeration of multiple cults, including the Mormons and Republicans. The Mormons explicitly disassociating and ostracizing anyone who dares question them from their families and friends. Was my phrasing sensationalist and incendiary? Yes. Is anything I just said wrong? No. They actively ostracize anyone intelligent enough to show a critical thing.

    Above all I think the kid is confused, conflicted, and mentally unwell. Which in our current environment is no condemnation of him. I think we all struggle with it. Now, its also quite clear he comes from a heavily right winged background, which I think even you cannot deny.

    Hell, I would say that you personally empathize with the kid mistakenly or not. And only any monster like Kirk would ridicule empathy. That said, you should probably also know better than anyone that it's almost impossible to escape cults. There's been no evidence that this is the case with him.

    Though I'm not sure how posting from Lemme. ML is a good thing though? The greater fediverse, sure. As a rule, I tend not to attack people I see posting from there. Since at one point it was the only game in town, and there are people who still use it. Who don't align with the political suppression and censorship there. But for those that do, Marxist Leninism is an ideology, so destructive and toxic. It only comes in second to fascism here in the United States because of its larger-scale irrelevance.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    You responded to someone pointing out there is no evidence provided for the image in the OP (saying he is a groyper) with more non-evidence. That's why I replied to you. You're not really on-topic in the context of that conversation. I've done that before, tbh.

    I read all of your comment, none of it was relevant tbh. Yes, I did pick out the most outrageous thing you said. It was outrageous after all. I could have picked apart every sentence, but I didn't want to do that, and nobody wants their words dissected like that. Its not nice.

    Your larger opinions on the Utah area do not change what this guy actually believes. You might be right. You might be wrong. All of this is speculation. That's my point, and that's the point of the person you are originally replying to.

    I never said posting from ML was good or bad, just pointing out they are leftist, as am I. I'm not interested in debating the goodness/badness/whatever of Lemmy.ml, I'm just stating facts.

    Anyway, I hope your day is going well.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I never said it was evidence

    You're response to the same comment:

    You ignoring the evidence put forward doesn’t make it not exist. Do better.

    So it's evidence talking to me but not this person? You seem very confused.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I never said it was evidence.

    This you?

    The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    We don't know all the facts. He could just as easily be a leftist. I hate that it matters so much because either way, he had some demons to be able to do that. I see people on the right just as sure he's a leftist and I despise the idea that people would rather push a narrative than know the truth. Sadly, people on the right will always blame a leftist no matter what now and vice versa. I would prefer to know the truth whatever it is. And yes I know that historically what the odds are here. Truth matters though. Let's not stoop to immediately making a decision and ignoring facts that come out later.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    No one here said a leftist couldn't have done this. What people are saying is that due to clear circumstantial evidence, there's very little chance he is a leftist. Many of these pieces I just recited to you. But if you truly think it is just as likely that he is a leftist, why don't you read off five or six circumstantial markers that you think indicate this?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    What Internet people don't understand is that it's possible to not jump to a conclusion. It's easy in fact. Which is why I'm trying not to and asking for others to as well. You're asking me to argue for something I don't believe. I'm waiting for actual evidence. Not some vague shit or lies from Cox

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Totally agree. It's bizarre to see you get downvoted for not wanting to jump to conclusions. Do people here think we'll all suddenly turn maga if he is a leftist or that it serves us at all to be wrong about him? If anything I'm pushed away from this community seeing shit like this

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, social media is the worst invention of all time. Even when talking with people you agree with 90%+, they can't wait to jump on you and prove you're a secretly impure or destructive force to the things you claim to agree with. It's fucking bizarre but it's consistent.

    Browsing r/conservative, it's way worse for sure on this conclusion-jumping issue, but I am saddened to be on this platform right now where you cannot even suggest waiting for evidence without people getting mad at you.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    So what you're saying is that you have nothing? Not a single solitary fact, that you can point to that might indicate his possible left-leaning stance. Just on the face of it, over 70% of political violence in the United States comes from right-wing sources, less than 10% from left. By those numbers alone, it's a fairly safe assumption he probably wasn't at leftist.

    Those currently in power are actively trying to frame it as a leftist to justify current and future abuses of innocent people.There's nothing wrong with pushing such a well-founded assumption as the likely truth. in the face of their propaganda. But refusing to push back against unfounded accusations against those who would be our allies. Shows that you are not likely their ally.

    But, you know what? I take it all back. Your complete and utter lack of anything at all to point to has convinced me.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You’re asking me to argue for something I don’t believe

    I'm done here. I'm encouraging skepticism, you're mad about it. Deal.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    LOL, I'm not mad. Gauging from your frustrated response, I'd say you're projecting a little. I'm simply pointing out that skepticism for skepticism's sake is no boon. The first couple of days, it was absolutely the call. But the longer this has gone on, the more that has come out. The more transparent, the more desperate the actions of the fascists in power to try to paint this on leftists has become. They can't point to any leftist literature that he had.They can't point to any of his actions, or behaviour to show it either.

    First, it was just that he himself was trans. When that narrative blew up in their face, then it became about this trans roommate. That everyone knows exists, but no one can find or get even an anonymous quote from. Not that a trans person “existing“ would radicalize someone.

    While we hem and haw debating the accuracy of the things they throw out in bad faith. They have and will trample/slaughter the truth regardless. Considering the agenda and incompetence of those running the show. We should spend more energy being sceptical of anything they put out. It will be framed and misrepresented to suit them at best. At best.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're still not getting it. Saying "I don't know" is always an option. Just because the right is shitty enough to never do that doesn't mean we need to even debate about this. We likely will never know why this happened, and claiming we do seems valueless to me. It changes nothing about the right being Nazis. It does nothing to help advance progressive causes. It just leads to pointless wastes of energy. It's not like if we scream loudly enough that Robinson is a right winger then suddenly anyone changes their mind about anything at all

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No one said it wasn't an option. Nor was anyone criticizing you for having that opinion. I believe you don't know. The pushback you're receiving is that you are asserting what people who aren't you, cannot know in your opinion. You don't know that. And for how much you dislike my argument. You cannot rebut it because you have even less evidence of your position. Dispute ours only being based around the Fuentes cult engraved memes on the casings and the overwhelming preponderance of circumstantial evidence.

    The hilarious irony is that whether the kid is left or right, it's irrelevant. It has and will be pinned on the left regardless of evidence. Because the fascists need it to be. And we bumble among ourselves arguing pointless minutiae as fascists achieve their goals.

    In the end realistically more than anything the kid was conflicted, manipulated, confused, and mentally unwell. Regardless of political leanings. And our society and dominant politics are the ones to blame. Not the nebulous "the left" bogeyman.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    that's the thing: circumstantial evidence is evidence, it's just evidence you don't like apparently

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm really sorry you feel threatened by the idea of skepticism and need to lash out at strangers, accusing them of harboring secret and evil motivations.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    accusing them of harboring secret and evil motivations.

    okay time for you to take a break from the internet

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Where's the evidence he was? You're talking about his family but I want evidence he is maga before I can relax. He was registered to vote but not as a Republican and there's stories going around that he's in a relationship with a trans woman? That doesn't sound maga. But then again they're not really an internally consistent group and it wouldn't be the first time news outlets ran with fake trans stories so nothing I've heard is conclusive.

    Do you actually have any evidence?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Lots of MAGA people date trans actually. We really don’t know anything concrete about his views or why he did this and people need to accept that.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm sure it happens but given the anti trans rhetoric of the right it is more uncommon. Agreed though we just don't know anything reliable yet. I think speculating is fine too as long as it's not framed as anything but speculating

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    Well, I don’t have direct experience but I’ve heard from some trans women that some conservative men have an obsession with them exactly because it is transgressive. So I’m not sure if it is more or less uncommon.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The trans roommate thing is a hoax. The right is just desperate to pin this on trans people so they can further their genocide

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah I'm leaning hoax as well but that's kinda the point of the conversation right? Don't jump to conclusions this early on, there's not a lot of evidence yet and it's very far from reliable

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Don't disregard all evidence just because one side is actively trying to deflect blame. That's what they want you to do. Yes you should always be critical and double check sources, but they're purposefully trying to muddle the waters and cast a shadow of a doubt for cover

    That's how fascism thrives. MLK warned about complacency

    E: typo

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Don’t disregard all evidence

    they’re purposefully trying to m[u]ddle the waters

    What? You're saying don't disregard it and disregard it at the same time lol. I would hope it's obvious you should skeptically consider all evidence

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You ignoring the evidence put forward doesn't make it not exist. Do better.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm asking you for the evidence. Did I overlook something?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You should know that Lemmy is generally a misinformation factory, there’s real people interacting all over the place but there are so so so many bad faith actors here that you should basically take anything said here as a biased statement.

    Trust yourself and seek reputable sources

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "You can't kill the truth. Well, you can, but it always comes back to haunt you."

    Its taking way too long on the haunting part IMO.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Is it? We're getting increasingly destructive weather patterns, that's the truth about climate change hitting us. We're getting constant school shootings, that's the truth about gun control and sicjak alienation and radicalization hitting us. Prices are skyrocketing, that's the truth about tariffs.

    Reality is fucking our country in the ass like it's Folsom, but we keep lying to ourselves

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Its not a post truth world. Its just a couple of post truth countries.

    And when It comes to lies and bullshit. The fire hose of falsehood leads back to Moscow

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Once again even on lemmy like every other social media, the point is not that anyone else has made up their mind on who he is. It's the right leading the charge on this. They decided they know exactly every detail of his life points to their radical far left evil bad. All while accusing others of the sin they commit.

    There's no more point in even attempting discourse with the far right. I believe all you can and should do anymore is point out their meta-games. Do not wrestle with pigs. You're both covered in shit but the pig is enjoying it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    this is mocking them, not arguing with them… i think it’s good to point out holes in their logic

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There is no “logic” with them.. one person I spoke with about gun control had said if guns went away people would begin building bombs and using cars to kill people instead and that the number of deaths in this country would go up “10 times higher, probably even 100 times higher” than if we just kept guns. Now you tell me what part of that sounds like logic.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    They want a reason to declare civil war so badly

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