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[–] 18 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

If I understand it correctly, they're arguing that any unauthorized "modification of the computer program" (i.e. the web page) is a copyright violation.

This wouldn't only affect adblockers... this would affect any browser feature, extension, or user script that modifies the page in any way, shape, or form... translators, easy reading modes, CSS modifiers (e.g., dark mode for pages that don't have it, or anything that improves readability for people with vision problems), probably screen readers...

This would essentially turn web browsers into the HTML equivalent of PDF readers, without any of the customisability that's been standard for decades...

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    Jeez, will it never end?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The original ad blocker! Arrr

    1000034134

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Seriously people, we don't need to live out Idiocracy. It was just a movie, not a prediction.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago
    [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Welp... Better start practicing...

    \o/ McDonald's!

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  • 64 comments in c/piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com view that post
    [–] 73 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Let's take a deep breath and consider what's happened. The Federal Court of Justice has sent the case back to the lower court. They have not ruled on anything. They have not said ad blocking is piracy. They have essentially said: lower court, you had 25 boxes to tick but you only ticked 24 in your ruling. Go back and do one that ticks all of them.

    It's entirely possible that the lower court will change its ruling based on the intricacies of German copyright law, which is shit. But it's not very likely if you ask me. Regardless, whoever loses will appeal it again. This rodeo is far from over. And when it's eventually over the technology will have moved on, with any luck the law along with it, and the only beneficiaries will have been the lawyers.

    So the headline should read more like "German court does not rule out that ad blocking could be a copyright infringement."

    The argument that Axel Springer is just doing it for their love of democracy is also comical. Media pluralism is important, I agree with them that far, but they are stuck in an outdated mindset. They launched a silly tabloid Fox News wannabe TV channel and failed. They are trying to force eyeballs on their content like you are at a news agent. Meanwhile, news is happening on TikTok and so-called AI is going to reduce their page views to dust. By the time we get a final ruling they will have pivoted strategy 10 times to keep the c-suite in caviar while the established media business that made them successful is rotting away under their assess.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    isn't overturning a previous ruling kind of clear intention? what other purposes does this have?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Is returning it to a lower court overturning a ruling?

    This sounds more like as described - "redo it". Overturning would be this court literally "over turning" and saying adblock is piracy.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Yes. The article only links to it in German but "Werbeblocker IV / Ad Blocker IV" on July 31 was the overturning case.

    Axel previously tried twice in 2018 and 2023 and failed. Now that it is overturned, he is going to the Higher Regional Court of Hamburg to get a new ruling.

    However I don't speak German or live in Germany, this is my understanding of this article and these court cases.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    No. This is how the legal system works. When you appeal to a higher court, they can make a call themselves when massive mistakes were made at the lower level or they can say the lower court overlooked something and then make them redo their work. It's a convenient choice for the higher judges not to have to do more work themselves. But it's part of the process.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    i'm gonna block ads even more just to spite the germans

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    How will you do that if all adblocker devs will get sued and because of that no safe-to-use adblockers are available?

    Are you going to download some unknown shady binary from tor tor or other shady sources to do that?

    For anyone from german courts reading this, if you pass that stupid ruling, you might be responsible for all hacked devices that got hacked over ads and/or over shady adblockers. People will not go after the ad networks, people will go after you personally. Because the whole DMCA usage is an overreach to begin with.

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    [–] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If I understand it correctly, they're arguing that any unauthorized "modification of the computer program" (i.e. the web page) is a copyright violation.

    This wouldn't only affect adblockers... this would affect any browser feature, extension, or user script that modifies the page in any way, shape, or form... translators, easy reading modes, CSS modifiers (e.g., dark mode for pages that don't have it, or anything that improves readability for people with vision problems), probably screen readers...

    This would essentially turn web browsers into the HTML equivalent of PDF readers, without any of the customisability that's been standard for decades...

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This device is now mandated to watch TV or browse the internet in Germany:

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    [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    time to send TCP packets containing advertisements to German IPs, then sue them for blocking my packets.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    That’s foul. I wouldn’t touch YouTube without Ublock. You ever try watching that garbage without it?

    The one app game I like(d) was Scrabble. It was sold and is now an endless stream of ads. Turn, ad, turn, ad, turn, ad, nonstop. It’s unplayable. I had to delete it.

    Ad blockers make media consumable. Granted, less screen time would likely benefit everyone.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Are we talking about Wordfeud or is there another online Scrabble game?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No, the regular Scrabble app. There are solo games, but mostly one on one games with strangers. And a speed competition more in keeping with real life play.

    EA originally owned it. I bought it for $5 back on the first iPhone. Limited to banner ads. Then it died, because it was sold. Now it’s ScrabbleGO. The same with some eyeroll garbage for collecting new tile skins and a store for new skins and some pay to play. If that wasn’t bad enough, every time you take a turn, an ad plays after. Banners included as well. It’s unplayable in its current state.

    The closest approximation would be words with friends. Also riddled with ads, triggered to play every 1-2 turns. Also unplayable. Also in addition to banner ads.

    Scrabble is officially dead outside of real life play on a physical board. Which makes me sad. Real life play almost no one plays defensively so it’s just aggravating.

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  • It can't be said often enough: fuck Axel Springer.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What's next? Forcing people to buy articles in the supermarket? Forcing people to go to the cinema? Why is copyright law even applicable here??

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  • Loosely defined legal terms. A "computer program" can be copyrighted. You can write your own that does the same thing but you cannot copy the other code and slap your label on it. With a lot of imagination and bending the words of the shitty outdated law, you could say a website is also a "computer program." You cannot just go into the code and change it, e.g. by blocking ads. The lower court ruling didn't take this possible interpretation into account and now has to rule again with this in mind. Nothing's been decided yet. We're running a little hot in this thread on misleading headlines.

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  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    you are correct. I've made the oldest and simplest blunder in changing the title. some times we must all learn the basics in emberassing ways

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I've never been blocking ads of Axel Springer, because I've been blocking all of their rotten publications. Get bent, you assholes.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah for anyone who doesn't know them, this is basically the fox news of Germany. WELT, BILD, and NIUS are the biggest publications I believe and if you see them please don't even dignify them with a read or watch.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    So they're gonna reign in the data brokers and surveillance capitalists? Right?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    In a very general sense it is, the ads should pay for the content. But fuck them because even paid services add ads. And paying for Internet access, you can't tell me what I can and can't block. Good luck proving people are blocking ads at the DNS level.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Data that arrives in the browser is downloaded and processed there.

    In a newspaper, I could ask someone to cut out the advertisements before I read them. Or not?

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Anyone else looking forward to the advancements in ad blocking in the future?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Wow, that's pretty crazy.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Example 624994931# for who bourgeois "democracies" are really protecting

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No the didnt... but its still bad.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    And so is closing your eyes or getting up to go to the toilet.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    And the rest of the world ruled that piracy is officially cool again.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    In other news: sunglasses are now prohibited in public transport, they were found to modify the perception of ads, modifying the intellectual property of ad maker in public places, the impact was a reduced market values of ad space in public transit which would have forced the city to increase the ticket price.

    Stay tuned for news on those disgusting blinker pirate: those people blink twice more often than normal people which makes them see only half as many ads, police forces has invested millions in brand new blinking frequency detector, in order to more easily catch those dangerous criminals.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I would VERY much appreciate a court ruling that makes spreading misinformation and propaganda illegal

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    What could possibly go wrong with a government which can imprison people for talking about things it can arbitrarily rule "misinformation"?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Very much this. See UK's legislation for terrorism and activism and how it's being used to squash peaceful protests for a current example.

    What you should want instead is widespread independent journalism along with a transparent government, national broadcasting and a well educated, critically thinking society. If you try to control information by omission and restriction, you only make it more appealing as it seems like a cover-up. Example: how many times have you heard of the Epstein files in recent months and years? It could've been a grocery shopping list and the effect would've been the same because of how it's been handled.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    100%. Governments controlling information has always been associated with authoritarianism and oppression. This power and control is always eventually abused and misused. The solution to misinformation is information.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Probably some kind of translation error. They must mean "privacy".

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  • Hah! Aaahahah, fuck you, German Court!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Yes officer, this blind man right here is commiting the heinous crime of not to watching my ad.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Read in German

    Jarrrr

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Here's a thing about LLMs, they will effectively make laws like this meaningless. Law comes in to enforce against a company building a program to block ads, extension goes off market. Someone asks their LLM "create an extension function referencing the same data set for my browser that performs the same function" boom new extension with no central point of distribution. Share the prompt on a forum, now everyone has a custom ad blocker. Or not so far down the road, LLM is directly built into the browser, no extension needed just prompt "do not display known advertisements on pages I request before loading, but perform background activity which gives feedback to the site that ads have loaded" boom done.

    In a way, local LLMs are like distributed applications, they make enforcement against specific program functions pretty much impossible.

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  • 12 comments in c/technology@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    I'm OK with letting websites not allowing me to block ads, as long as I can hold them personally liable for content of any ads they serve up.

    No? Then kindly fuck right off with this shit.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    In a new lawsuit, the publisher alleged that AdBlock Plus removes ads by interfering with the “programming code of websites” which violates its exclusive rights under copyright law.

    I would respond that putting ads on my computer interferes with the programming code of my computer under my exclusive rights under copyright law. The unique combination of hardware, software, and data which comprise my computing environment belong exclusively to me.

    However I will grant non-exclusive access to my taint for the sole purpose of licking.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    The difference is that you are choosing to engage in "business" with that website but insisting that you get to dictate the terms without agreement from the other party. If you don't want to disrupt your sovereign cit-err, the sacntity of your computer: Don't go to that website or any website that runs those ads.

    Don't get me wrong. I run an adblocker AND a dns level adblocker and have zero qualms about it. I am not sure if I consider it "ethical" but, from a legal standpoint... yeah, it probably does fall into the same bucket as piracy.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Crucially there is a cost to you (in data & power) to receive the ads. Precident has been set since the dawn of the net to choose which elements you download & execute, e.g. text only, no script, no autoplay video

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Precident has been set since the dawn of the net to choose which elements you download & execute, e.g. text only, no script, no autoplay video

    Has it? Maybe during the usenet days but even then most stuff was downloaded as a digest. And basically once we hit "the good internet" with geocities et al, images were everywhere and things kind of spiraled from there.

    Again, this is a world I would prefer and I love/hate that there are browser plugins to get stripped versions of websites and the like. But precedent wise? I... don't think we were using the same internet for the past 30-40 years.

    I DO think the argument for power and (at least where it is monitored) data usage could be a thing. But I am pretty sure the outcome would be landing pages that EVERYONE hates and bypasses.


    Also obligatory: Legal Precedent is a very specific thing that is almost entirely based around court rulings and cases. And there are a lot of reasons almost nothing related to The Internet or piracy ever goes to trial.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Can a website operator prove I consented to their terms if I block their consent popup?

    What happens if they can't but continue to provide the website content regardless?


    I also don't consent to having billboards all around me or ads literally mailed to me in the post. I wasn't even asked in those cases, but for some reason, me not being part of that business agreement doesn't matter.

    Consent doesn't matter when it comes to advertising, apparently, and if your site delivers content and a side of shit when I ask for content then I'll just have my robo-butler continue to remove the side of shit before delivering content.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    When modern billboards became a thing, many cities or similar jurisdictions passed laws limiting their proliferation, in order to ensure you didn't end up in a billboard filled dome.

    In Canada, at least, you can register your address as a "no admail" destination, and you'll stop getting those flyers entirely. It doesn't stop certain protected classes of ads, in particular ads for prospective politicians during an election campaign, or mail that is personally addressed to you (even if it is an ad). But does shut it almost completely down. This would be the legal equivalent of installing a real-world ad-blocker.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Can a website operator prove I consented to their terms if I block their consent popup?

    If you continue to use their website than that is a you problem. It is no different than actively ignoring the signage at the local kroger saying "no guns allowed"

    I also don’t consent to having billboards all around me or ads literally mailed to me in the post.

    Which is a very different mess with very different laws governing it. That said? You would be shocked how easy it is to complain about a billboard ad and get it to go away.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Can a website operator prove I consented to their terms if I block their consent popup?

    If you continue to use their website than that is a you problem. It is no different than actively ignoring the signage at the local kroger saying "no guns allowed"

    If I block consent notices how would I possibly know there was a consent notice governing continued use and how would a company know I never actually saw the consent notice to begin with?

    I also don’t consent to having billboards all around me or ads literally mailed to me in the post.

    Which is a very different mess with very different laws governing it. That said? You would be shocked how easy it is to complain about a billboard ad and get it to go away.

    It's the same mess. A company makes an ad and partners with another company to distribute that ad. That distributor then partners with several vendors to show that ad. In exactly 0 cases was the recipient of the ad asked for consent. In one case the recipient of that ad has an option to not see it--heaven forbid they actually exercise that option.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago*

    Insane, ads are a malware threat.

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  • 7 comments in c/legalnews@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] [S] 14 points 1 year ago

    To clarify the title: The court overturned past decision that said ad blocking is not piracy and retured the question back to the same lower court to re-consider it on the new grounds from this ruling.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    'It interferes with our business model!' Good, fail. Kill the entire industry.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    In their opening statements, the lawyers defending ad blocking should begin by spend endless minutes doing nothing but reading verbals ads into the record on the courts time. If the judge asks them to stop reading the ads, the lawyer should then ask if the case is now concluded in the favor of ad blocking as ad blocking should be allowed to consume the relevant content instead of being forced to listen to ads or if the judge is saying that all parties must be forced to consume an unlimited amount of ads lest they face the force of law by blocking/skipping the ads.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    It's my computer.

    Fuck you.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 1 year ago

    World is fucked.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Seriously -_-

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