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[–] 103 points 1 year ago (1 child)

Yeah, if she plays an N64, she won't be exposed to any popular series from today, and will instead play things like Mario Kart, The Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros., and Pokémon.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I think Guitar Hero was a good investment for my kids, as they came to love all the classics I grew up on.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Ooh, I hope that works for my daughter when she's old enough for it to be relevant. I've got a wall of instruments - some real, some game controllers, and some combination game/MIDI controllers.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're in for a fun evening. Let her pick up a peripheral and she might stick with it long enough to actually learn the real thing. That's how Rock Band drums got me playing a real kit.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Playing the crap out of Guitar Hero with my friends ages ago is one of my most cherished memories, your daughter is in for a treat.
    It could also serve as a cool way to bridge past and present since Fortnite now has a GH gamemode, made by the original creators of GH and Rockband

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  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    Shit this is what I'm doing. My kids are nuts about the niche indie games I play. My son has crazy good skills for Super Meat Boy and Super Hexagon.

    The other one loves Mario games from the 3DS.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Is really super meat boy "niche" anymore, lol.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yes. It was a big fish in a small pond when it came out, compared to where indies were at back then. And where indies were back then was a niche. I'd say it's largely been forgotten compared to the most popular indie hits today.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I grew up playing games with my dad. I wouldn’t change a thing. I miss it dearly.

    He never went easy on me in Soul Calibur.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 year ago* (21 children)

    This is the responsible way to raise a child on video games IMO. Modern games have predatory practices like microtransactions.

    The look on her face says everything to me though.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Well, what about this: Early exposure to the shithead practices of modern gaming can enable children to more easily identify what's good and what's just trying to take money from them.

    I dunno.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You could argue the other way around - growing up with decent and non-predatory practices makes you less tolerant of when companies try to extort you because you already know what "good" looks like.

    I'm sure the corpos would love nothing more than kids getting exposed to predatory practices from a young age so they grow up feeling those things are acceptable and normal.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    Drag thinks we should expose kids to a safe environment most of the time, and to little bits of predatory design in contexts that make them easy to identify. Like a vaccine.

    "Dad, how do I put armour on my horse?"
    "You need to grow up and get a job and a credit card for that."
    "That sucks, I hate Oblivion! I want to go back to Morrowind!"
    "It's okay buddy, I pirated the Oblivion remaster. Let's play that instead."

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Most kids aren't discerning about those kinds of things.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That's why I slam that shit home all the time. Robux are a scam. YouTubers are just selling to you. If it has ads it's not worth watching. Just repeat that every day to the kids and they're good to go.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    The message they will take away is "the things my parents approve of" and "the things that are really cool and fun" are disjoint categories. IDK, I'm not a parent, I don't want to deal with that. Just thinking about my own childhood here, and the kids of people I know.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    The problem is that kids dont make or have money. Its like burning their hand the first time, they need to attempt to pay for their own lives fully at least once to really understand it. I think its fair to restrict these types of things to mature rated games as a general rule.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    My kids didn't see an ad connected to videos until the youngest was about 7 (outside of a movie theater, at least). When they first saw them, they were flabbergasted about what they were or why people would just sit there watching them, and absolutely refuse to put up with them. I'd say they are better off seeing how things could be, so when they see how things are now they recognize how utter shit it is.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    yeah the problem is this doesn't line up with the horror stories I've personally witnessed. Sudden, massive credit card charges. The problem can occur when kids aren't spending their own money, they're using their parents', some way some how.

    Regardless, kids are already surrounded by ads in every corner of life trying to convince them they need XYZ in exchange for money. I'd rather work to make the kid's environment less consumerist, to give them a vision of how life could be.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If you give your kid access to your credit card you're a fool. Those are parents who perhaps needed to learn some extra lessons in life.

    The second the kid goes to school, they're faced with every single fad anyway. It's insanity. Everyone wants a croc, a Stanley, a labubu. My kids see the ads built in to the YouTubes, and they see it from friends, and I do my best to explain to them what's happening.

    And if they earn some money, or get birthday money, and they want to burn it on some nonsense, I explain to them what's happening but ultimately give them some autonomy. And when the next thing comes along and they can't spend money because they have none, they either learn or they don't.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Jokes on them. I hack games that have micro transactions and DLCs and make them entirely free. Even games I have paid for. My child hasn't seen an ad or a micro transaction yet.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Can you elaborate a bit more on that? Most of the games with dlc or microtransaction stuff that I play have it all verified with some sort of online system (steam, mostly). What games are you hacking, and how?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    steam does not verify much by itself, its not made to be a strong security system. look up goldberg emu, cream api, etc. they work if the DLC content is not really downloadable, but already baked in just locked away behind a check

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago

    "Cool" uncle (citation needed), did expose kids to games released 2 to 3 decades before their time occasionally.

    I was a bit surprised that even rough 8-bit sprite graphics can capture their interest. An 8 year old trying to make sense of the pixelly mess that's a Metroid creature sprite can be funny.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    I am 50+, remember paying quarters to play Pong and Space Invaders.

    Built my kids a game box using Batocera Linux and ROMs from the 80s and 90s (Atari2600, Intellivision, Colecovision, etc)

    I was thereby able to show them the True Magic and Wonder of Computers

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Honestly this is how my parents(‘ generation) got me into gaming, pre-NES, because I was playing their games on Atari and Intellivision. I don’t know if it was the NES’s marketing or what that made people associate video games = for kids, but they were all in their 20s at the time and they had a blast with that stuff. Actually now that I think about it my grandma was mean at Burger Time back in the day.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Duh, fun is only for children. Adults must be productive to produce profit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sorry, but that wasn't a complete sentence, so I'm going to have to deduct you 10 Adult Points. You are now legally a minor until you can pay the fine of not more than fifty million US dollars.

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    [–] 147 points 1 year ago* (31 children)

    Counterpoint:

    The reason they will be out of touch is that they will have better impulse control and better spending habits than kids raised on modern games with their FOMO MTX and gacha bullshit.

    So basically, actual 'nerds' are rasing another generation of 'nerds', except this time, nerds 2.0 will probably actually be more socially intelligent than the brain dead zombies being raised on fornite, roblox and tiktok, who have negative attention spans and cannot fathom the concept of doing any actual thought-work, when chatgpt can just do their homework for them.

    They'll also be more tech savvy, like being exposed to or having to learn at least some of how emulation works, which kinda de facto makes you understand things like a file structure, which an increasing number of kids (now adults too) raised on modern mobile UIs... have no clue about.

    Oh, they'll also likely just be generally more literate.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    You're not kidding about file structure. I haven't got a fucking clue how to do it with phones. Every thing is just "in here somewhere" and it'll pray the search feature can find it when I eventually locate the file browser.

    I miss my PC

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Due to circumstances, I've had to emulate more on phones. You very much can figure out the file structure so long at its Android (and 9 times out of 10 shit is just in the download folder). I swear my wife's iPhone is a little black box, though.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    IIRC modern iOS ships with a file manager. The black box used to be even worse!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    iPhone bitch here

    Yeah we absolutely have a file manager!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    And where might I find the files saved by an application?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    IIRC modern iOS ships with a file manager. The black box used to be even worse!

    you mean to tell me the patient zero of enshittification was fucking trash? No, really??

    The whole fucking movement happened the second they rolled out the fashion adverts for fucking ipods that required itunes to scatter your files into a zillion folders for no fucking reason and people went "yeah, I don't give a shit about owning my device or data"

    Then came the walled garden, then the shitty apps, then the perpetual surveilance machines.

    Now I literally cannot avoid having a phone since work , citizenship and banking two factor authentications are mandatory and on my phone. Fuck sake.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    Do yourself a favor and install a FOSS file manager system, if you can / its not too much trouble on your particular phone.

    Basicslly every phone OS goes out of their way to make their particular file browsing app batcrap overcomplicated and unintuitive if you want to do anything other than exactly what they want you do do.

    Which is usually sync everything on your phone to their cloud and your account.

    I am running a sort of jerry rigged, half baked, de goodled android, ... basically I have torn out, replaced or disabled everything I can without root, but left in play store and core g services so i can actually still use it for common apps... done the best I can to lock down everything to its bare minimim privelege set, never use a big ole shared account for anything, everything is a separate, old school email account.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    You're in a virtualized container that only exposes some directories, also those directories are mostly hidden from you, also within this container you generally don't have any permissions to them, and also every application completely obfuscates it's folder access via some file access API.

    It's crazy to me how hard consumers got fucked right from the start on phone software and how normalized we are to it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    It's mainly done for security reasons, but yes it is not the most friendly way of doing things.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    If it was primarily done for security then it was a massive fucking failure. But I believe that security was a secondary concern.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    What reason do you think? Also what makes you think it was a failure? Seems pretty successful to me.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    The app store and permission model hasn't stopped malicious code from making it onto users devices. So if security was the concern, I'd say that's a failure. But I think the primary concern was control. Control by manufacturers (And eventually, thereby states) of what people see and do on their phone. Make sure they have to pay for access to features. Easily surveil what they do.

    Security is very often the excuse for control.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Your confusing different parts of the system here, and showing a lack of understanding of the security and privacy concepts involved.

    Stopping malicious apps is not the point of the permissions model or of the file structure. It's meant to restrict what malicious apps can do, not prevent them from being installed. It applies to side loaded apps just as much as ones from the play store. Malicious code ending up on users devices does not make that system a failure, as that was never the aim.

    As for spying, the permissions model makes that harder as apps can't just access all the files made by the other apps. These kinds of mechanisms also exist on desktop Linux via flatpak and snapcraft for similar reasons. Mandatory and discretionary access control is important for both security and privacy. The two are not at odds here, they are in fact very much aligned.

    The app store part is separate and not at all what was being discussed. That is meant to stop malicious apps from getting onto devices. In the case of Apple this is definitely also about control, but android has always allowed third party apps and sideloading.

    Google's own services and Apple's own services are part of the OS and potentially have access to things others don't so can very much engage in spying. That could be said of any Android manufacturer with their own ROM. You can do whatever you want if you made the ROM, android permissions model be damned.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Sorry, I thought you were the kind of person who could handle a little casual disagreement. I don't mind that you think security was the primary purpose of phone OS app land, and I definitely wouldn't presume you arrived at that assessment from ignorance as you're a stranger who I don't know and that would be both foolish and needlessly insulting. But everything I've watched phone companies do over the past 20 years demonstrates to me that a desire for control was the main intent. You don't have to agree, in fact I think it's silly to spend all day debating it because it really is a subjective matter.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    What makes you think I can't handle disagreement? If If think someone is using shaky reasoning I am allowed to call them out, and use my actual knowledge on the subject to defend my point.

    I am not saying google or apple have the best of intentions. They don't and that's why I use GrapheneOS.

    Sandboxing is generally a good thing so long as it's done in a transparent way that can be controlled by the user. Hence the popularity of flatpaks, AppArmor and why GrapheneOS has even stricter sandboxing options than stock android. Walled garden ecosystems aren't good, and neither is spying. Apple is guilty of both of those, with google being guilty of the latter. You're painting all of these distinct things with the same brush even though they are basically cross purposes to each other. Different mechanisms are made for different reasons. The current state of mobile is the result of more than one decision made with different aims in mind. I am not saying that security is the primary consideration for all of these, certainly telemetry wasn't added for security reasons. Just that it's not as simple as you want to think. Nuances exist.

    This is not subjective either. Someone somewhere will know the actual reasons these decisions were made. Even though we don't know the exact thought process behind them, we can still reason about what these mechanisms do and are useful for. Android itself is open source and these mechanisms are reviewed by other security researchers. You're just saying that to get out of the leg work of actually understanding the nuts and bolts of this stuff and what is and isn't supporting the end user.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I haven’t got a fucking clue how to do it with phones.

    In a certain way, probably me neither. I use ls, df, md5sum, cp, mv, rsync, tar, gzip, gpg, vim, touch and mkdir in Termux (terminal emulator for Android). For example, say I am replacing MP3 for FLAC. I really like to keep the timestamps of when I added the specific song, but I can't find any better way than touch -r oldfile.mp3 newfile.flac

    But I also use FX File explorer for certain tasks, as it thankfully keeps timestamps. I absolutely hate how moving photos in Google Photos updates the modified timestamp to the date of when the file was moved. Why?
    And I also have an ancient version of ES File explorer, version 4.0.2.3. Before it enshittified.

    But I am not sure whatever that is installable from within the device, or it's old enough to require adb install --bypass-low-target-sdk-block app.apk like some other old apps I use.

    Anyway, I have no idea what's going on with iPhones and files, or whether that's a non-existent concept there.

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  • With android the default file thing is integrated with cloud. The version of files that was local only like a real operating system is in there somewhere but not something a user can access on demand. So it's literally not 'in here somewhere' anymore.

    I had to find a third party tool on f.droid.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah the nerds usually find themselves in very powerful social circles if they survive school. Circles of emotionally mature experts with strong careers.

    Kids' needs are of course very important, but abandoning engaging hobbies in favor of some phantom desire to fit in is dumb.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah the nerds usually find themselves in very powerful social circles if they survive school. Circles of emotionally mature experts with strong careers.

    You're assuming they'll be hired and promoted by emotionally mature people.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Apples and oranges.

    '90s equivalent to "them goshdang tiktoks and fortnites" isn't Half-Life and Ocarina of Time, it's Television. The Simpsons or DBZ. Or those awful "classic" animated shows from the '80s that were designed from the ground up to be toy ads. "Impulse control" my ass, most of y'all were glued up to the TV screen like a moth to a lamp and only got consumption impulses out of it. Calling young people "brain dead zombies" is such an "old man yells at cloud" moment, look at yourself.

    There's more culture than ever being created now thanks to the incredibly lower barrier to entry. There are more incredible microtransaction-less indie games made in the last 10 years than the exhaustive library of most gaming consoles back then. Celeste, Outer Wilds, Expedition 33, Baldur's Gate 3, Tunic...

    The existence of slop is a constant across generations, and clinging to an idealized past is such a foolish endeavor, and will cause you to lose out on so much relevant cultural discourse happening right now. How many classic video games from the '90s might a queer kid growing up nowadays look up to? How many?? How many had, oh, I don't know, a goddamn female protagonist? And don't say that Samus counts. What a lame-ass culture to let our daughters grow up in.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I mean, as a 90s kid, and tech dork... yeah, I largely did drop TV almost entirely, in favor of console and pc gaming, and exploring the early public internet on a 56k modem.

    I would imagine most tech dorks of the era did as well?

    Like, as soon as I learned how to block ads on the internet, then later on youtube, as well as uh, obtain audio visual media without cost... I did that regularly, never looked back, began to actually not be able to stand TV due to ads everywhere all the time.

    And yep, I am still calling anyone who watches ads for anything, anyone who buys into incredibly exploitative business models that waste your time, money, or both, yep, I've been calling them idiot consumer zombies since the 90s, consistently.

    You are right that there are more non bs indie games now. That is great! That is good.

    Are more games more diverse now?

    Yes! Also good.

    ... But I've had basically the same opinions on all this since the 90s, I am not rembering an idealized past, I am one of the nerds thats been this way the whole damn time.

    They call Gen Z the digital native generation, but this omits the ubernerd Millenials such as myself (and others from other generations) who forged the way, who were early adopters from a young age, who were digital visionaries that forged the path before the ecosystems got to be more user friendly, more accessible, more mainstream.

    Like uh, without potentially doxxing myself, of those indie games you list?

    Yeah, I know a few people on one of those game's dev teams, personally, met them online when I was first like like 13, back when multiplayer games had server browsers with private custom servers, some of those also had their own websites and forums, all we had for voice comms was ventrilo... I met these people way back, have regularly voice chatted and gamed with them for... 20 years?

    I myself have been modding (as in making mods) for that long as well, I literally taught myself how to code so that I could do it, before I got out of high school, before any high school offered coding classes, before Adobe bought out Macromedia, and flash games on Newgrounds were all the rage.

    Not to try to gatekeep nerddom with some kind of official checklist you have to measure up against, but I think you are considerably underestimating the potential nerdiness of a lot of really dedicated nerds from that era, and thus writing them off as 'old men yelling at clouds'... when we've been yelling at those same clouds since we were kids, then we went on to actually implement the changes we deemed necessary, as best as we could when up against the corporate and financial behemoths constructed by Boomers.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My public high school in Southern California had programming class in the late 1970's. Nerds been nerding for a bit. Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta yell at some clouds, now where did I leave my onion belt...

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You do realize that is/was extremely uncommon, right?

    Not to argue against your nerddom, I'm sure you are, and of course nerds have been nerding for quite a long time, but uh, you won the time and place birth lottery to be a Boomer born into prime recruiting territory for Silicon Valley, IBM probably directly paid for that class.

    Programming, actual courses in writing code... beyond maybe basic HTML... were basically unheard of in US public k-12 schools untill like, the late 2000s at best, more like 2010s.

    You were in the right place at the right time to be able to recieve formal nerd training in a public high school in the 70s.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Given all the child predators on Roblox, can't blame ya

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Don't forget the slavery and financial exploitation!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ive heard of the financial exploitation and pedo controversy but what is the slavery controversy for roblox?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Gonna be honest, my brain farted while being flippant. "Financial exploitation" to refer to extracting robux from users. I used "slavery" to refer to uncompensated or undercompensated underage labor relating to development...

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    My 3yos two favorite games are Mario 64 and Rhythm Heaven (in literally any form, but 3ds most approachable). The latter is especially funny that the 1yo is getting in on the references; "Wabba dubba dubba, that true?" and they both go "Un." Might be a Halloween costume in the making.

    And don't get her started on those Rock and Roll frogs.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm not familiar with Rhythm Heaven, but Mario 64 (and Sunshine) has been a big hit in our house too.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    The simplicity of the mini games make Rhythm Heaven easy to understand, mostly pushing A or B with proper timing. Mario 64 by contrast they're just excited to find butterflies or make it to a door, moving and jumping at the same time is more hand eye coordination than my 3yo has atm.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Now my daughter brings her friends home to play Mario 64! Masterpieces have no expiry date!!

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