1600
Americans have no idea (lemmy.zip)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/usa@midwest.social
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[–] 164 points 1 year ago (20 children)

I would not fly to the US even if I got paid for it. I value my life and the US politics look like a serious threat to my wellbeing.

So, count me (German) into the group of „stay the hell away from the US“ people.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

    Don't worry. Americans will start coming to you when things start getting bad here. You're lucky though. You'll get the Americans who are able to travel by air.

    Mexico and Canada will get ones who can't fly because they believe airplanes are demons.

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  • [–] 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

    Oh they're already here. One American expat I know greatly enjoys our affordable healthcare, childcare, worker's rights, tenant's rights, 30 days of paid leave, customer protections, etc. etc.

    And she's a Trump supporter.

    Oh, and she thinks there are too many immigrants coming to Germany.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Perhaps she would like to help reduce the amount of immigrants by getting deported herself?

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I have no idea why it's so common, but a lot of immigrants seem to hate immigrants. My parents are one of them

    I seriously don't get it. You're the immigrant!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Same people who always pull the ladder up behind them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Or they resent that they did it the "right way" and think other people are doing it the "wrong way", even if someone else is doing it fully legally.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Years ago I spoke to a Turk in Germany who said something similar about eastern europeans migrating to Germany. His argument against them migrating was that there are too many migrants in Germany already and he felt his livelihood was threatened because of it.

    It actually makes sense from a a job security perspective (he was a cab driver).

    I am experiencing a similar feeling in a different setting. We bought an old house in a tiny village. Me and my wife we both love nature and moved out of the city into a forgotten place. In the oast few years this place became popular and now more and more people are buying land and building houses here. I get why they do it, i did it too. Its beautiful here. But i just dont want them here. Soon this place will be another rowded popular mountain spot. I hate to think about it. I want it to remain calm.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Don't worry, the current German government is just as evil.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The current German government is bad. But it’s far from being as catastrophic as Trump‘s shit show.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's certainly more competent than Trumps, but it's just as evil, presuming you care about morality and not just the material comfort of white Germans

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    As a short term resident in Germany, this is demonstrably false and a straight up lie. It could always change, but immigrants (and citizens who are not white) aren't getting disappeared and killed in the streets like in the USA.

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    • [–] 104 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I am a US citizen living abroad. Even I'm afraid to go back home to see my family.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Similar situation. I crossed the border last week with no issue. A work colleague got stopped and spent hours being questioned (also a US citizen). No idea what the odds are, nor what the flags are.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I didn't even cross the border. I just got within 30 miles of it as part of a job and hit a security checkpoint.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    I’m old enough to remember the iron curtain. That’s exactly what it was like. If you lived or stayed close to the border, you knew to expect being stopped and checked.

    I guess that’s what they meant by “great again”.

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    • [–] 85 points 1 year ago (34 children)

    Go read about how empty Las Vegas is and all the people scratching their heads wondering why no one wants to come. Personally, I think the people who say they don't know are lying or stupid.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I just did a YouTube search for 'Las Vegas dead' and found a video of a guy highlighting how dead it is, and my god the comments are all to do with stuff like price gouging cited as the reason why... Someone even suggested it's because they're all going LA instead. Nobody is mentioning the lack of foreign tourists... Crazy stuff.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago

    Honestly, 2 things can be true. Vegas has gouged consumers excessively in recent years. Fees for parking, increased resort fees, fewer comps for gamblers while at the same time removing anything remotely affordable like buffets. They have not helped themselves in attracting domestic visitors, and the regime isn't helping with foreign visitors. It might get ugly out there really soon, and frankly, a lot of it was self inflicted by greedy corporations.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    That's crazy, with the reportedly large ICE presence in LA, I'm sure domestic tourism is even down.

    I've heard the same about the Disney parks, where people are wondering why it's not as crowded as usual.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    I didn't even think of the ICE situation in LA but you're right; suggesting that's where the tourists are just shows a lack of awareness around that whole situation too, which is just as insane.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    In this economy I don't get how people spurge on Disney park. If I was a regular Disney park visitor, I would probably try another cheaper one if I could still afford the annual trip. But I will certainly not try the Disney park from another continent.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Even if it was cheaper to go to another continent, that means dealing with US customs and/or ICE on the way back for US citizens. With due process going out the window, that's even unsafe.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    lying or stupid

    Partly #2, there is a pretty decent news blackout for the things they don't want you to hear. Right-wing news shows nothing of it, left-wing news might occasionally eek something out. Museums are being strong-armed to take down historical displays that don't mesh with the narrative they're trying to write, real-life 1984 stuff. When there is news, it's 50 articles about cutting health care redistricting to make the left wins impossible. There's so much they're pandering to the extreme right that the deterred tourists hardly makes a dent.

    I'm all over the left and centrist news, and I've heard of a couple of German tourists and a few Canadians being held for weeks to months, but nothing from NZ. I kinda want to try to log all this stuff in a link warden to preserve it.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    When they put bounties on people and they don't bother checking for legal status much... with those bounty hunters probably trigger happy dumbasses and more and more reports of lilly white people getting caught up in this shit it is no wonder people are just not interested in being another statistic.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    When they put bounties on people and they don’t bother checking for legal status much…

    Just like when Stalin gave police arrest quotas and they just started arresting random people at train stations and public buildings etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Yeah, or like how America has treated it's African American population for it's whole existence. But you know Americans, they can never see their own country doing something bad without saying "What are we, a bunch of foreigners?"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Apparently vegas was already declining for a while, because of thier gouging and online options for gambling. the current issue, is trump basically accelerated its decline. ALSO NEVADa which is a red state depends on people gambling and touring to nevada, alot of california transplants went there for the no-income tax. it will be hilarious once they realized things are just as expensive if not more when tourism basically flatlines.

    a YT channel i originally followed, asian poc talking about the news. some of the owners moved to vegas , and some of the guest host moved to reno, it was hilirious watching them complain about california and NEVADA for its lack of services like schools and private pratices, and yes they are RIGHTIEs.(very long story i used to follow but keep tabs on them through a subreddit) like former fans.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    11% down from 2024 is not "empty."

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I used to work in tourism.

    It really matters which 11% are we talking about. The relatively little people attending conferences on a company dime that won't exit their hotels and will spend exactly as budgeted are probs still there. The richer touristy people who can choose where to spend and are happy to spend on random bullshit going elsewhere hurts more. This is conjecture of course.

    I've personally seen - in an unrelated place - tourist crowds getting bigger, hotel revenues getting slightly bigger, but everyone else in the industry like restaurants, activity places and souvenir shops, stagnating and closing as the bigger crowds were because the festivalgoers and young single people were switched out for families who pack their own lunch and primarily only sightsee and do what's free.

    Look at Venice, insane crowds from cruise ships mean zero income for the city and its inhabitants because those people eat and sleep on the ship.

    It really matters which 11% is missing. If you want to know how it affects tourism, you need data from that industry, data I think the Trump admin will be reluctant to collect.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't work in tourism, but I would have thought business travellers were among the more sought-after guests. Since they're not paying with their own money, they don't put much effort into bargain hunting. They're not high rollers, but they'll probably at least spend as much as their company allows.

    OTOH, someone travelling on a personal vacation will probably be watching their pennies. They don't have an expense account.

    I know that business travellers are the most sought-after clients for airlines. They're not in first class, but first class bookings are fickle. Business customers are reliable. They book last minute flights and pay whatever that requires.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Flights and hotels are different this way than other establishments, as they are "essential" for visitors, you don't buy them on the spot and you can't really get to a destination without transportation and a place to stay. From a different perspective, they are privileged, since for them only first class is fickle. For everyone else, all customers are.

    So if you work for eg. a place that rents out jet-skis on the shore, you won't see a lot of suits, because they don't have time. And to be honest, most likely only around 10% of visitors will actually be your customers. Now if those customers are overrepresented in that missing 11%, you may have just halved your turnover, which means you'll need to close up shop.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Sorry, decimated would be more appropriate then.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    11% down is devastating. Why downplay it?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Do you live in LV? I was there just two weeks ago, I found it just as crowded and bustling as it has been in all my many other visits to the Strip. It was absolutely crowded, not dead anywhere. Maybe the difference is something more subtle that only a local would recognize. But from my perspective I noticed nothing strange.

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    • [–] 68 points 1 year ago*

    Oh wow, it's true. This is from April, it was 8 at that time:

    One Kiwi woman in her 40s was allegedly detained at San Francisco Airport for 15 hours and forced to buy a return ticket to New Zealand after officials took issue with the visa she’d been issued by the State Department.

    Planning to visit her partner in Florida, who works on a fixed-term contract, before holidaying in Europe, the woman was allegedly questioned for five hours over her visa, Arizona-based author Wendilynn Kay alleged in a post reshared on Facebook.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/travel-news/eight-kiwis-detained-at-us-border-since-november-mfat-reminds-travellers-of-entry-rules-amid-safetravel-review/BUP6FRREGJE33FEV4IJ334VSVQ/

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    [–] 65 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    I watch Telemundo with subtitles in my office when I want to have something on so I can try to learn a little more Spanish. Everyday they're talking about ICE abducting people. It's wild. And it's local Telemundo. This shit is fucked.

    I told someone from UK recently that yeah, America is cool, I think it's worth seeing some of the national parks, but maybe wait until this administration is out because holy FUCK.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Most places which fall to fascist regimes have a minimum of a few decades of bad times and thousands to millions of deaths.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Well the US has already thoroughly managed the millions dead, assuming you consider foreigners human.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Of course but I meant that it's naive to expect it to go back to normal without substantial strife for the people who live here not downplaying any strife elsewhere.

    The Republicans are going to fuck up badly enough that they doom themselves in fair elections leaving them openly cheating or otherwise ending actual democracy. This leads to resistance and upset which they meet with violence which cycles up until the whole thing explodes.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Of course but I meant that it’s naive to expect it to go back to normal without substantial strife for the people who live here not downplaying any strife elsewhere.

    Well that "normal" people want to go back to already included massive strife for the rest of the world, so I'm not sympathetic to Americans.

    otherwise ending actual democracy.

    I find it hard to say that's there's much Democracy to end anyway.

    This leads to resistance and upset which they meet with violence which cycles up until the whole thing explodes.

    Yeah. That's the Imperial Boomerang for you, I suppose.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Actual democracy means that if you don't like how its going you have a right to switch leadership which in turn has a right to change the laws you don't like something we absolutely have had.before just recently.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Did the millions of people America murdered overseas have a right to switch leadership? Or the absurd number of prisoners in US jails? Did people outside of swing states? People who want something other than neoliberalism? The people who were part of communist or black liberation parties that were destroyed by the US intelligence services and their leadership assassinated?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Obviously people in other countries don't have a right to have a say in leadership here. All the people mentioned here have exactly the rights others have to vote. Obviously the relatively stupid beta democracy 0.03 we are stuck with doesn't provide very good protection nor ability to achieve even reasonable ends in our rather fucky system but that wasn't really the question.

    The question is given large scale fuckery are we able to change gears. We were up until now it looks like we won't be able to going forward which is a substantial difference.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Obviously people in other countries don’t have a right to have a say in leadership here.

    Why is "obvious" that people having their countries destroyed and their families murdered by the US government shouldn't be allowed to have a say in it? This sounds like white supremacism, frankly.

    All the people mentioned here have exactly the rights others have to vote.

    So you're just abandoning your original claim. You're also just straight up wrong, by the way, not all of those people have the right to vote. Especially the ones who were murdered by the state.

    Obviously the relatively stupid beta democracy 0.03

    So what's the line between "stupid beta democracy" and just not being a democracy?

    We were up until now

    No you fucking weren't, what?

    we won’t be able to going forward which is a substantial difference.

    How is that substantially different from now?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Why is “obvious” that people having their countries destroyed and their families murdered by the US government shouldn’t be allowed to have a say in it? This sounds like white supremacism, frankly.

    It is pretty obvious insofar as every democracy in history has been a democracy of the it's members by which they determine it's leadership and therefore its direction. It's not clear how or why anyone would allow other nations citizens a vote both logistically and reasonably since other nations are going to have motivations and aims which are directly opposed to ours. Absent an overarching government in which everyone is a member it makes little sense and would destroy any notion of self determination.

    So you’re just abandoning your original claim.

    The original claim was that it was going to get a lot worse before it gets better because historically every other country that gave into a populist fascist regime had a period of grave strife before it returning to democracy herein defined as it has been traditionally as the people getting to choose their leadership and thus their direction. You are the one that turned it into me continually explaining basic shit to you like why Chinese people can't vote to pick the representative of California.

    The assertion after that became more broadly that prior to 2021 we had a democracy. Not a good one but one in which we could throw the leadership out if they fucked up enough and pick new folks. In 2021 they lost and tried to take over. Now they are back and entirely off prior rails. They are making destructive choices that are going to lead to them losing any fair contest by 2028 and are based entirely on prior behavior and statements by self not going to give up power. It is going to get very very bad.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It is pretty obvious insofar as every democracy in history has been a democracy of the it’s members by which they determine it’s leadership and therefore its direction.

    So any society where any portion of the population got to vote is a democracy? The Holy Roman Empire was democracy? The Catholic Church is a democracy? The original Roman Empire was a democracy?

    It’s not clear how or why anyone would allow other nations citizens a vote both logistically and reasonably since other nations are going to have motivations and aims which are directly opposed to ours.

    So if it's just a matter of making sure only people who have the same motivations and aims as you are allowed to vote, why allow anyone except the current administration to vote?

    it makes little sense and would destroy any notion of self determination.

    I would say it destroys any notion of self determination to have no say in the government that occupies and destroys your country.

    herein defined as it has been traditionally as the people getting to choose their leadership and thus their direction.

    A definition that the US has never met.

    You are the one that turned it into me continually explaining basic shit to you like why Chinese people can’t vote to pick the representative of California.

    No, that was you electing to miss the point.

    we could throw the leadership out if they fucked up enough and pick new folks.

    "We" here not including the people being brutalized by that leadership. And even then, only every four years, and even then, you never actually do it.

    It is going to get very very bad.

    Only for those who privileged enough not to already have it very very bad

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Since you are unclear

    Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more de·moc·ra·cy /dəˈmäkrəsē/ noun

    a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

    Historically democracy has included those in which only an eligible portion of the population votes in contrast to monarchy or autocracy where nobody does. It's not my fault you don't know what words mean.

    It's also weird that you think America going to absolute shit won't make it more dangerous to the world.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    American here. We have almost 3.5 more years of this horse shit. If indeed cheetoh Hitler allows another election.

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    • [–] 63 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You aren't supposed to travel into Nazi Germany right as they are setting up the concentration camps. US tourism should be zero if you don't have family here

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    • [–] 56 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    As an American I can confirm we are absolute trash right now and we're sealing our fate for at least a generation.

    People the world over are going to spend the rest of their lives at the very least having a bad taste in their mouth when America is brought up. Things may "normalize" and regular trade agreements may resume, but trust is broken and that's long-term.

    It's unbelievably depressing to watch from the inside. The shock of finding out that such a high percentage of your fellow citizens are stupid/racist/hateful is profound.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    People the world over are going to spend the rest of their lives at the very least having a bad taste in their mouth when America is brought up

    Bud...i have one hell of a revelation for you....

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Before this it was Iraq and Afganistan, before Iraq was 'nam and the cold war, before that was us nuking Japan and then hiring Nazis via operation paperclip, etc. etc. We may have become independent of England, but we certainly continued the longstanding custom of fucking things up for both our own citizens as well as the rest of the world in pursuit of money and power.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This. Don't come here for the Olympics. Don't come here for the World Cup. You could find yourself in a world of shiat for absolutely no reason at all. We've got some serious problems here, right now.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I cannot remember a time when you didn't.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    The people downvoting you don't understand that they're part of the reason our country keeps doing shit like this. Unwillingness to do some radical self-examination or entertain hard truths about the history of the place they live help ensure that it'll keep happening. A lot of people can only emote at bad things and refuse to understand how or why they occur.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It's because they genuinely don't consider foreigners to be fully humans; they see them as extras in the story of America. That's why they get so angry at Trump, because he's treating 'main characters' the way America has always treated lesser humans.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Oh it will be generational.

    I am Canadian. My kids 12 and 10 are learning to avoid all products and services from 'murica. They're into it and talking about it with their friends. They will be taught and they will follow through. They already are.

    Death to 'murica.

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    • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Im a Canadian citizen, but was born in Central America. I have tattoos and anti trump memes on my phone. I at least used to tel myself “at leadte if I get arrested and fucked with, the Canadian government will save me”

    Then I saw a report about a white Canadian girl who was detained for weeks. And the Canadian government did nothing and let her rot till the Americans released her. So yeah I ain’t going anywhere near the U.S

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What is the Canadian government supposed to do about it, invade the US?

    It's not like reasonable negotiation is getting anyone anywhere.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    It’s not for me to say what the government should do, im not a diplomat. But I know that ignoring the family and saying nothing about it is not the right response. They should post a travel ban that treats the U.S like North Korea an other “do not travel to for any reason” countries. I for one am done with America and all Americans in general. World would be better off if every American got raptured tomorrow.

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