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[–] 26 points 23 hours ago
[–] 9 points 1 day ago (7 children)

First Microsoft, now this. Iranian hackers?

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  • [–] 23 points 23 hours ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 20 hours ago

    The initial roll out was in late September and only provided AI optimized routing. Being that humans are, and always will be, in the loop to approve this routing, it shouldn't make a difference.

    My bet is the new system didn't play nicely with some ancient system.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Too much coincidence. Is it retaliation from Ukrainian Allies in response to being cut off from Elon Musk's Starlink? Is it Iranian Hackers? It seems like the USA has gained some powerful enemies lately as the coincidence of these two things happening back to back is starting to make me wonder what's next.

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  • [–] 15 points 23 hours ago (1 child)

    Ukraine has every right to be pissed but is not going to attack the USA for withdrawing support, you've lost the plot if you think that is even on their radar or if you think that's in any way how international relations between allies, even tense and intermittent allies, could ever possibly function.

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  • [–] 8 points 20 hours ago

    Didn't work yesterday due to MS, woke up this morning to USA grounding flights. I can't wait to see what USA borks tommorow

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  • [–] 12 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

    Ngl, my mind immediately was like "oh shit, here comes the nuclear war" when I saw the headline.

    m66wqhc5jIth3I5.jpg

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  • [–] 2 points 23 hours ago

    All these new gamer-ATC's playing GTA6.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 hours ago

    Well no shit.

    What other reason would they ground every flight?

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  • 66 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 41 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    Lmao I am having the WORST (forced, extended family) vacation. Everything that could have gone wrong, went wrong. And this is the cherry on top. My return flight was gonna be tomorrow lol. At least I have an excuse for my boss. Pray for me, everyone.

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  • [–] 55 points 1 day ago (16 children)

    HOLY FUCK. That's nearly unprecedented. What the fuck is going on.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    Microsoft's big outage is beginning to affect more and more systems.

    Turns out that even things which don't seem to depend on Microsoft can actually only last for a limited time if it goes away

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  • [–] 20 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Or it could be the recently announced phaseout of their floppy disks and they've announced they'll be using "more AI" (whatever that means). It could be either of those too

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  • [–] 2 points 1 hour ago*

    No. There is no chance this is related to the MS outage

    The ground stop was caused by center losing radar information. Most systems still use floppy disks, I can assure you they do not have a critical dependency on M365

    It's likely going to be a bad system update/change, which could be related to the new AI SMART tool

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  • [–] 8 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

    They rolled AI tools out nationwide at the FAA just yesterday. Go figure.

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  • [–] 3 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    They have been using them since September 21.

    The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) says the $875 million SMART system has helped reroute 180 flights since being implemented in airspace over Washington, DC, on September 21.

    https://arstechnica.com/ai/2026/11/faa-expands-ai-advice-to-manage-air-traffic-congestion-across-entire-us-airspace/

    Guessing it did not scale well.

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  • [–] 5 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

    They announced yesterday that they were rolling out a new AI ATC tool nationwide.

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  • [–] 7 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

    Actually less scary than if, say, Obama was president. (or even a Bush really)¹

    Cuz a trump admin having a major shutdown could just mean his admin hired a Christian straight white cis male "DEI Hire" that was incompetent and flipped off a switch and shut the whole thing down.

    ::: spoiler


    ¹Cuz if it was a "status quo president", you know shit hit the fan (i.e. war or some shit), not just an innocent mistake :::

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  • [–] 74 points 1 day ago* (12 children)
  • [–] 28 points 22 hours ago (1 child)

    ”The use of artificial intelligence within SMART has rightfully raised serious questions about its reliability and safety benefits, particularly on its potential to interfere with decision-making by experienced air traffic controllers or to hallucinate safety-critical information.”

    Excellent use case for AI. An industry where a single mistake can lead to a fiery crash and hundreds of deaths.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 hours ago

    The agency wrote on Nov. 10 that after the D.C. test, it will “now use SMART in the airspace of all 22 centers across the country

    ATC has 3 facility types: Tower, approach, and center

    Center is for the largest/busiest airspaces. They operate from effectively a bunker in the middle of nowhere, using only instrumentation to track and direct traffic

    Centers were the only ones unable to perform traffic separation duties, which is fairly telling

    My tower was still operating fine. The center near me was not. They said they have no radar, making IFR traffic separation effectively impossible for them too control

    I don't know if it was this SMART tool or not, but if it was, it'd look just like this

    Also of note, the FAA gave controllers very little information about this ground stop. All they gave was an initial downtime estimate of ~7 hours

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  • [–] 1 point 23 hours ago (2 children)

    The article is from yesterday, but is that when the rollout actually happened?

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  • [–] 2 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    From arstechnica:

    The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) says the $875 million SMART system has helped reroute 180 flights since being implemented in airspace over Washington, DC, on September 21.

    It sounds like this story is saying they are increasing its usage now.

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  • [–] 24 points 21 hours ago (11 children)

    My pet theory... Some tiny but critical process holding up the Air Traffic Control network depended on data shared periodically between systems using a python script that emails the info using Outlook. It took 24 hours for the Outlook outage to catch up with the ATC data sync routine.

    Icing in on the cake: They fired the guy who maintained the script in June as part of an AI cost savings initiative.

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  • [–] 4 points 21 hours ago (9 children)
  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

    That's a fucking great use case for machine learning. Do you know the burnout rate of atc controllers? Just watch the documentary "Pushing Tin"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago*

    SMART will not reduce workload on controllers. It would save some fuel and reduce delays

    Want to reduce controller burnout? Pay them more. Train more controllers. Stop shutting down the government

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  • [–] 0 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

    I'm so tired of the excessive anti-AI hate, because I generally dislike AI but you have to jump on the bandwagon and hate everything NO MATTER WHAT or you get downvoted to fucking hell. I dislike AI, but I REALLY fucking hate the fucking moronic hivemind on this topic even worse.

    So it's worth noting that the system in question DOES NOT CONTROL LIVE AIRCRAFT, but assists with planning. Humans approve the suggestions it gives for FUTURE ROUTE PLANNING, NOT REALTIME TRAFFIC.

    So go ahead and hate on it, no worries, I don't care, but all this fucking misinformation about planes falling from the sky needs to stop. The idiots spouting that sound as stupid as Trump and his stupid word salad. Like remember the people seeking asylum, and because Trump only knows about "insane asylums", it somehow turns into him thinking it's crazy people trying to invade? Yeah, that's what the "AI CAUSING PLANES TO CRASH" spouting people sound like.

    Be angry. Fight against the harm excessive datacenters can cause. But be RIGHT and don't be fucking STUPID.

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  • [–] 2 points 16 hours ago (1 child)

    Considering no one knows anything at this point I think it's just as crazy to say confidently that there is no connection

    The official statement was that some systems got overloaded. Gee, I wonder if having a whole slew of new data going through them has even a possibility of overloading old systems?. Maybe not, could be unrelated, but it's not like you're a fucking brainless ape for considering it

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago

    Facts I'm confident in are:

    The outage only caused centers to be unabke to perform their duties (tower and approach were able to continue operations), due to loss of radar and other instrumentation

    SMART AI tool was rolled out to centers on the same day as the ground stop. It is not a tool used by approach or tower

    The FAA did not provide any indication of the cause, which is unusual. Previous outages such as the ground stop in 2023, the FAA provided a reason within a few hours (this was the 2nd nation-wide ground stop since September 11, 2001)

    As a note: I got this information from talking with my tower, so it's 2nd hand to begin with. Minor details may be inaccurate, but I stand behind the broad facts

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  • [–] 4 points 20 hours ago

    Hey bud, the comment you are responding to doesn't say that AI is controlling live air traffic or causing planes to crash. Maybe you meant to respond to a different comment or thread, but you seem awfully worked up over what, in the context of your comment, is a straw man argument. We all had a day off from email thanks to Microslop, and it's at least a funny coincidence that there's a massive nationwide groundstop that seems to coincide with either Outlook being down and/or the FAA rolling out an "AI" tool. Let's all lower our blood pressure and have a chuckle at the situation, yeah?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago

    The ground stop was caused by all, irbnearly all, 22 center facilities in the country losing access to radar and other critical airspace information

    Towers and approach were able to continue operating effectively (although can't do much without center)

    The AI tool, SMART was rolled out to centers on the same day. If something went wrong, the doomsday scenario is a nation-wide ground stop

    There is no scenario where planes are falling out of the sky. You are the only one I've seen to suggest as much. It comes off as a disingenuous straw man

    So it’s worth noting that the system in question DOES NOT CONTROL LIVE AIRCRAFT, but assists with planning.

    That can describe the SMART AI tool or ATC as a whole. Everything ATC says is a suggestion. Final authority, and responsibility, always rests with the pilot

    I should also be clear here. I have no problem with AI tools helping ATC. ML is quite good for that type of work

    Where I have an issue is the clearly political nature of this tool. It was rushed out for a cheap political win. If it caused this outage, there should be outrage

    Forbthe record, I do also get annoyed with the kneejerk reaction that everything AI = bad. AI is here to stay, even though the inappropriate uses of is are unbelievably frustrating

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  • [–] 11 points 1 day ago

    of course my prefered local news is showing judy justice but abc is live with it. sounds like the automated air traffic control systems are having problems.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 day ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    Somebody pulled another duffy

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    I wonder if any countries use Linux on their ATC systems?

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  • [–] 4 points 22 hours ago

    This reminds me of when our entire management team got stuck in France because of a volcano with a name you can't pronounce.

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  • [–] 4 points 18 hours ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 hour ago

    From your link:

    Duffy said the outage is part of an ongoing problem with outdated technology that air traffic controllers rely on across the country.

    “Many of our towers are almost 100 years old,” Duffy said. “Our air traffic controllers have leaky roofs. Air conditioning doesn’t work … their elevators don’t work.”

    That is a blatant fucking lie and misdirection. Towers were operating fine. The issue was with centers, which operate underground

    The fact he's lying tells me it was very likely related to their new SMART AI tool

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  • [–] 7 points 22 hours ago

    "You're right to be mad at me, I shouldn't have directed the two Boeing supermaxes to fly into eachother, my mistake!" -FAA AI

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  • [–] 3 points 16 hours ago

    dUFFY demands 50bn from congress so this "doesnt happen again"

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  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago (1 child)

    My condolences to those at DFW. I had a 14hr delay in October and stayed at the airport because the hotel voucher selections were crusty as fuck. I ... despise DFW.

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  • 5 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 15 points 23 hours ago (2 children)
  • [–] [S] 9 points 1 day ago

    https://globe.adsbexchange.com/

    I expect that the airspace is going to get empty quickly if this stays up long.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 19 hours ago