Over 6300 pages when you search for "woke". And talk on the Steam forums using that word has made the forums unusable. Also talk about Steam charts for games where it doesn't matter, but I'd blame live service developers for that more than Valve.
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Just wanted to point out that this search is for over a decade of questions. It might be a problem, but over 10 years you are likely to get a sizeable result for a lot of errors.
That is true, but it also shows that this issue has gone on for over a decade and not been solved.
I think it's quite a leap in logic to assume that this is all one singular problem, rather than a collection of a decades-worth of issues that happen to give a disk write error. It's a pretty generalized error message, and there could be countless different causes.
this issue has gone on for over a decade and not been solved.
Gaben should have made ssds eternal by now
Disk Write Error is very much more likely to be a Windows (+/- Linux) error rather than a Steam error. If Steam can't write to the disk for any reason, all it can say is there is a disk write error. It's unlikely to know whether that's due to the hard-drive failing or the hard drive going offline for some reason or even just a permissions error.
I'm not surprised there are 2000 pages, because hard drive write failures are very common, and as the OS has responsibility for that, then the information available to steam is going to be limited.
In fairness Steam and many games do provide quite detailed logs. But they can only really log things they can control. If they get a message from the OS (like "disk write error"), all they can do is log that. It just doesn't necessarily even have the permissions or access to that level of the OS to provide the "why", just that essentially "computer said no".
That’s true, but it could still be more specific.
For example there’s a comment about symlinks on exFAT. Steam could say “failed to create symbolic link” instead of “disk write error” in that case.
There typically are a few different error conditions for normal writes too that Steam could pass on. E.g. on Linux there are separate errors for out of quota, files becoming too large for the fs they’re on, the fs being out of space, and low-level I/O errors.
Yes OS errors can be vague, but no, you’re not going to just get “disk write error” for such disparate errors.
Do a search for “errno”, and specifically the POSIX error section. There are separate errors for “permission denied”, “device unavailable”, “bad file descriptor”, etc. Windows API calls have a whole host of their own error codes, plus functions to examine what’s going wrong specifically.
This is most likely caused by a higher layer in the code catching errors when it doesn’t know what to do with them, and then just showing a generic message.
I used to have it on Windows on certain patches but never on CachyOS. Often with blue screens. I say certain patches because it would keep happening a lot until I updated Windows. One time the system wouldn‘t recognize my disc drive until I unplugged and replugged it. That stuck with me.
So all of that is probably technically true.
If Steam can’t write to the disk for any reason, all it can say is there is a disk write error.
But it's [current year]. I'm sure we as mankind and GabeN in particular could figure something out to make meaningful error messages from the OS through steam, to the user a reality.
Everything my computer does or any other machine, should align with me so I can use it. That's the point. I want human readable error messages. I want buttons that are big enough for me to touch and I want an instruction manual in a language I can read. Or a good picture based one.
For example. It could be that there is not enough disk space. It could be a permission issue and it could be some hardware failure. Either of those would help me.
If I had two wishes, I would like a community tool to share configs to make games work that require tweaking.
So something like Protondb but that actually assembles or merges config files? Sounds interesting.
Steam on Linux only for the last 10 years. I don't recall ever seeing a disk write error.
Makes one wonder.
Now that I think about it, that is across two desktops, two laptops, and more recently two steam decks and a steam machine. They all have one thing in common besides steam.
One of the "disk write error" I encountered, is the absence of symbolic link in a file system.
I pluged a used TF card (formatted as exFAT) into my Steam Deck. It works most of the time, but one day I installed a game packed by AppImage, and Steam reported "disk write error". Turned out exFAT doesn't support symbolic links, and AppImage uses symbolic links to resolve DLL dependencies.
In my situation, I had a minute of power outage while downloading, which got me this error. I had to run check disk.
How is “disk write error” not a meaningful message? It means there was an error writing data to the disk.
So what the issue with my car?
Well it doesn't start up
Not bashing on Steam, to be clear, but this error will not help fix the issue, user actually needs to investigate one of the many reasons this could be.
A meaningful error may be: write failed because files are locked by process xy.
I dont think Windows gives that information to Steam.
Just reboot and try again. It fixes it 90% of the time.
The messages can be improved without modifying the operating system.
What is the software currently attempting invoke/execute? Have that information included with any errors from the OS.
This is a very easy thing for a developer and gives context to the error. The hard part is going through all the code, deciding which operations should have additional messaging and adding god knows how many new lines of code.
Because there's no error code attached or any details about what specific error it was, what file it happened on, what mount it happened on, etc...
I think my coworkers are in this thread, they give the same terrible excuses and are bad at coding.
I mean, what more do you want from the error? Time? Location? Directory that failed the write? Sector count? It's pretty straightforward.
Every error steam has given me was easily figured out in the logs. Just like every program.
It’s pretty straightforward.
logs
Just like every program.
If it has over two thousand pages of problem reports, users asking for help, it is a legitimate problem and the logs are not a sufficient help to those users.
Disk write error.
Almost like the error has something to do with writing to the disk.
As in the disk may have an error in which Steam cannot write to it.
What else is Steam supposed to say? it's literally pointing to the error, it can't do anything else. If you don't know how to pour through logs or anything that's okay, that's what Geek Squad is for
Disk write error.
Almost like the error has something to do with writing to the disk.
It should provide more information, as to "which file", "which drive", and what caused the error like "not enough space" or "no rights to write" or whatever the hell it is. And maybe some other context depending on the circumstances. "Disk write error" is just too generic. It's better than nothing, but the request and critique in this post is that it could and should be more detailed and helpful.
In theory, I'm inclined to agree with you. But error handling in your code is not at all straightforward. Just successfully catching an error so the program can exit gracefully can be difficult. Classifying different error conditions and displaying an appropriate message is even worse.
Basically, the logs exist for exactly this purpose. Just how it works.
Basically, the logs exist for exactly this purpose. Just how it works.
it is wild for someone to say this immediately after saying "actually they can't display the error because it's too hard" and somehow not realize in the middle of typing how ridiculous it is trying to square those two claims.
additionally, every logging library worth using lets you log to multiple outputs, e.g. disk and screen.
Yes, and will outputting the log directly to screen help to make the error any less confiding?
And writing code that includes robust error catching and handling is simple, then?
No one asks to output the naked log line. There are a few more information that could be presented in a more readable and useful manner in a message box. Error messages are meant to be helpful, not to annoy without knowing what happened.
Even if you are right and the log contains the answer, why not trying to make more helpful Error messages? Does it hurt you?
I have nothing against helpful error messages, please understand; just pointing out this issue is not a trivial matter. It's not like somebody is doing this just to intentionally annoy you, after all.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No one argued it would be a trivial issue. But how do you know its not a trivial issue? To me this does not look like a hard thing to implement, its more a design choice and a design failure. If they have the data to write into log, they could have given SOMETHING more useful (like the filename in question) with the error message.
Well, for starters, your application is confirmed to not be operating correctly; essentially, you cannot necessarily count on anything behaving correctly. Another issue is parsing the log - while it's not too difficult to check if it's a disk related issue, accurately and successfully parsing the specific cause is maybe not so easy. It really depends, and depending on what the software does there are all sorts of odd little seeming issues that can make the whole process a headache.
Anyway, it is definitely nice when developers take the time to solve as many of the "little issues" involved as they can. Plenty of software out there that's buggy and will just crash or glitch out. Can definitely be a breath of fresh air when shit works, or at least has errors that make sense. 😜
Well, for starters, your application is confirmed to not be operating correctly;
An error message does not mean the application didn't operate correctly. Not able to write to disk, is a correct behavior with expected "errors". The correct way to handle it depends on the application, but if it is about to show a message, then they could also incorporate more useful information that is already available.
Another issue is parsing the log - while it’s not too difficult to check if it’s a disk related issue, accurately and successfully parsing the specific cause is maybe not so easy.
Exactly why the developer should do it, not the end user. But if there is an error message, it does not necessarily mean they have to parse log files. In most cases most important and relevant information should be available already.
It really depends, and depending on what the software does there are all sorts of odd little seeming issues that can make the whole process a headache.
Maybe. But on the other side, it could also be a very simple process of adding a variable or a standard procedure. If there are discussions with 2000 pages about unclear error messages, then there is definitely something wrong. And the developers for this has to do something about it. Bringing attention to these issues is not a bad thing (although I don't think Valve reads Lemmy posts).
at least has errors that make sense
I agree. At last...
Edit: The point is, the application shows an error message that it could not write the file to disk. What file? I mean it would at least know what file, otherwise it could not check for not able to write it.
If they can log it, then they can show it in the message.
How often do you read log files...?
Like, windows specifically stopped including the stack trace in the blue screen of death because of how rarely that proved to be necessary. And most log files are about as easy to parse, so...
it does. in the logs.
What you’re not understanding is how hard it is for an operating system to diagnose a problem with a drive.
You’re expecting from Stream they write a full diagnostics tool so the program can figure out what went wrong, which could range from permission issues or formatting, to failing sectors/drives.
In theory you could make something that works, in reality you’ll be getting false positives, for example: a permission error message while it’s actually a physical write error. The ‘wrong’ message is worse than a ‘vague’ message.
If I can look up what the error was with the disk access, in a log, then steam can do that too. It can parse that, and present it to me. That's what I expect.
And if that fails, it can at least point me to the correct log.
I can not stress enough that the client tells me nothing:
- it doesn't tell me that there are logs
- it doesn't link documentation on how to read them.
- it doesn't tell me where I can look for it.
The only approach I have to solve is, is to use a search engine for "steam disk write error". That's it.
Too much risk, I worked with win32 and it was wrong about the reason for failing a lot in the case of drives. If windows can’t diagnose and handle drive failure properly, I don’t think Steam will have a more reliable answer. Again, I’m assuming a vague error is better for them than a verbose error in this case.
Every error steam has given me was easily figured out in the logs.
Wouldn't it be better if the error message itself helped you figure it out, so that you don't have to look into logs? People seriously underestimate useful information in a good error message. Stuff like "Windows encountered an unexpected error" are just not useful.
Yes? The error should at least show basic info. Requiring checking the logs when the error message could just show some info is silly and clearly doesn't work well given how many people are asking for help with it.
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