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[–] 107 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (10 children)

So glad to see that Python finally made it big in 2022

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  • [+] 19 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)
  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (9 children)

    I have lots of experience with node and a little with python.

    Python seems great for working with large data sets and I really like jupyter notebooks. The available libraries are really great.

    However, the thought of installing a Python CLI app makes me twitchy.

    I suspect that node has all the same problems and that I'm used to working around them, but all the Python environment stuff is a nightmare.

    Edit: dear python dweebs: I don't care.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago

    Yeah, absolute nightmare of writing pipx install programname.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Python environment/packaging sucks, but at least the language itself doesn't.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    It's fine actually, all of the problemswith python packaging and env are overblown to insane degree.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    I used to work at a place that used Jython (which never got updated to Python 3, BTW) and was responsible for trying to keep that shit working even as various libraries started dropping Python 2 support.

    I still get a thousand-yard stare when I think about it.

    (Still worth it vs. writing actual Java code, though.)

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    yeah everyone elses experience is invalid.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago*

    Yep, they are.

    Just recently there was an article here, where a person claimed that recommended python tooling is inadequate because they needes to read two paragraphs of documentation. Endemic problem really.

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  • [+] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yeah, Python as a language is a mess IMO. We used it for making a electrical simulator and the language is...bad. The variable scoping, lack of explicit variable declaration, backwards comprehension syntax, the VERY CONFUSING object orientation design, that classes aren't serializable by default, package story and deployment... It really has very little going for it, and combine all that with the awful performance characteristics it's just...no.

    Today I'm "Rust if it fits, if not Rust then C#". We re-wrote the simulator in C# and performance was 70x better and the code got shorter, the deployment was hell of a lot easier since we went AOT and it just builds a native binary for the target platform. No virtual environment crap.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Python is very opinionated. I like it (other than the stupid ternary operator) but I can very much see why others don't. (At the same time I will fight for it. It's like the GNOME of programming languages.)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    Yeah, the fact that so much of the language is conventions as well doesn't help. The type hinting is fairly poor as well, but then again type hinting is basically admitting that dynamic typing is a mistake (which it is).

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago

    Python is great for standalone scripts/CLIs with standard system dependencies. For actual apps you want venvs, probably managed by uv these days.

    I've written 1000s of python CLIs/scripts over the years, typically wrapping APIs for otherwise shitty enterprise and SaaS software (also many one-off scripts for ETL).

    Nowadays, AI writes these scripts in a fraction of the time (and reads the shitty API docs / otherwise figures it out) and my CLI toolkit is better than ever (with $0 ongoing cost). Calling MCPs from CLIs is also interesting, as some vendors never had usable APIs before now.

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    [–] 48 points 2 weeks ago
    [–] 40 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

    Why is Python on the list three times?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (2 children)

    The first two are frameworks, the third is:

    def serve(p: int, f):
        s = socket.socket()
        s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1) # let me reset plz
        s.bind(("", p))
        s.listen()
        while True:
            c, a = s.accept()
            c.setsockopt(socket.IPPROTO_TCP, socket.TCP_NODELAY, 1)
            t = threading.Thread(target=serve0, args=(c, a, f))
            t.daemon = True
            t.start()
    

    I have an entire file of some really cursed malicious compliance code for when I was brutally forced to write Python.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I notice the absolute absence of "index.html"

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago*

    There are a few XHTML pages and templates later in the file hardcoded into single strings. Some stuff is populated from markdown (or was it gemtext? don't feel like opening it again). I used XHTML because it's easier to notice escaping mistakes.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    PHP is dead, learn Brainfuck

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  • [–] 86 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    So, you could have programmed happily in php for 30 years, or jump on the new bandwagon every other year? compelling argument.

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  • [–] 47 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Or, if you spin it another way: you could've picked up the skills to develop for and support various frameworks, or get stuck in a rut for 30 years with just a single antiquated server-side language.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    If its so antiquated why is it still used? For a lot of things its perfectly fine. Even this vulnerability is just a case of run the update command for your package manager.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

    It's still used because momentum is a powerful factor. That doesn't make PHP better, but it can make it a more expedient choice.

    PHP is a preprocessor that grew too big for its britches. It's a monolithic monster that runs only one thread per request in an interpreter. It works well enough if you need to manage the data of an internet forum, but it becomes increasingly unsuitable as the task's complexity grows. If you need threading or background tasks, or if scalability is important, PHP is not it; just read any number of Nextcloud vs OpenCloud comparisons.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 weeks ago

    "one thread per request" , "interpreter"

    (Looks confusingly) That's JS and Python as well

    PS: being obtuse on purpose, but PHP lends itself well to typical requirements of web hosting and you can always call out to a diff process if needed

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    You realize that the language evolved over the years and it's not even close to the same language it was 15 years ago?

    The fact that you also mix frameworks and languages also tells me that you have no idea what you're talking about

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  • [–] 61 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    "well...it's too late now"

    Why is that written on an Office Space screenshot? That doesn't make any sense. It's not even close to anything said in that scene.

    Why do people insist on shoving memes into everything? Did they not think their post was good enough on its own?

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  • [+] 20 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)
  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    How does the picture make it funnier here?

    I don't think I'll ever understand the affinity for it. It's the Internet equivalent of that annoying kid in middle school who couldn't have a conversation without quoting The Simpsons or South Park lol

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Have you ever heard of the phrase "a picture says a thousand word"?

    Memes became a thing at a time when even emojis weren't even a thing; though smilies were present, it was too cumbersome and not mainstream. At that same time "personalized content" was only a capitalist wet dream. Most people watched the same selected channels thus creating a "mono culture".

    Then phones with image sharing, widespread internet, and a bunch of other things became widespread enough that we needed way to quickly express complex emotions without both us and the other partner needing to know obscure name of that emotion/feeling. And that's how memes became so popular.

    Nowadays, we no longer have that same mono culture. So only memes we have today, are the ones became viral on the internet.

    Sorry for the lecture...

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    It's losing it's meaning over time, probably because the movies not being watched by "new" people very much. If you take out the movie context that made the meme he looks like he could be saying the text and I guess that's good enough for people.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    Everyone has forgotten java applets+ java servlets combo. I have no idea why it didn't survive, but if it would have, it'd defeated PHP (in amount of vulnerabilities ofc)

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    I was told in school that Java applets were the future and they made us take a class that focused heavily on them. I did make a few games in applets, but they were always janky and I am glad they are dead.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I had to remove the applet-based server architecture when moving java 11->17.

    The authors thought that it would be the right decision to accept code from users as applets

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    That's both hilarious and scary. Scarlarious, if you will.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

    Now comes the scariest part. We removed this in early 2024

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    Applets were killed by Flash, which then became obsolete.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago

    Applets were killed before that due to repeated severe security issues and Sun fucking around and not making them good in my recollection. Flash was just easiest applets with no Java and died for much of the same reason a decade later.

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  • [–] 35 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

    .Net has been chugging along quite nicely for decades now.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    And COBAL COBOL just won't die.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago*

    Last place I worked at that abused used .Net was serving an angular web app to interface with a c++ BE using soap.

    Now that sounds sane, until they made their own C++ to CSS transpiler to be able define the ui in back end code. Like angular written in c++ translated through .Net.

    Through no fault of .Net I just can't get past those flashbacks.

    To be fair that's only like top 5 most fucked up code I saw there.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    As backend code, yes. As a web (web, not api. As an api platform they're great) platform... No.
    Asp.net and mvc were imo a disaster, silverlight was... Oof.
    Then there is maui which could have done it using blazor but just... Didnt.
    ... And then there is blazor itself. Though blazor is imo the best of all the web platforms they had, and i like it, it still has very rough edges and is not gonna replace javascript any time soon.
    Hell, microsoft cant even decently support their own web ui platform ( fluentui ) because their backbone ( webcomponents ) is completely broke ( or did v3 FINALLY release? ). There are other blazor frameworks but they all seem to not take full advantage of blazor and its disgusting.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    What about modern ASP.NET? It feels pretty good these days honestly. I even really like the newer minimal API features

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    As i said, the api stuff of asp.net is very nice and straight to the point. The only bad thing ive got to note there is the openapi spec implementation they introduced in .net 10 is just terrible but itll improve quickly, its just early in its implementation ( like how system.text.json was )

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  • [–] 16 points 2 weeks ago

    Just spent my entire morning patching legacy servers running PHP 7.0 applications. Fun times.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 weeks ago

    web devs vs just using a compiled language plus vanilla JS

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    When I was a wee high school kid, asp.net was windows only back then and getting cheap windows hosting was harder than it was getting cheap linux hosting, so I focused on PHP more.
    I haven't touched it in forever, but its probably still good, right?

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago

    And if everything had moved to one of those, almost surely there would also be similar impacts in a similar cve to point at to say "we should be using something else!"

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Also missing: React Node.js Vue.js Spring boot Ajax jQuery Probably like 15 others I'm forgetting

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Fuck me, if my choice is between five flavours of Javascript, I'd rather use PHP. I'm developing a QML application and having to work around that abomination that the clinically insane want to call "arrays" in Javascript makes me want to fucking die. There's also a QList type implemented by QML. It doesn't help. Array.isArray(qlist) returns false.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    This is (also) about C++.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Perl + Mason

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    I’m out of the loop what’s up with PHP this time?

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  • [–] 26 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    A remote code execution exploit in PHP was discovered. Many websites around the world decided to shut down until it got patched.

    It’s one of the most severe security incidents of this week.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Would be funny to use HolyC instead

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