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[–] 67 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Hey, I'd only be killing people objectively bad for humanity. Trump and his allies, Putin, my ex-wife, Saudi Arabia's crown Prince, Netanyahu, that guy who cut me off in traffic last month, Rupert Murdoch, the Ellison family...

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    y'know this actually made me think of a good plot for a short spinoff:

    Hardcore christian person finds the death note, spends some time researching who the most evil people are, then follows a year of writing one name every day after which they go through a ritual and prayers and then repeat the next day, and at the end they finish by writing their own name because they know humans can't be trusted with that power and consider themselves to have simply been the hand of god and now it's time to face His judgement.

    Basically just literally Silas (the white haired dude) in the Da Vinci Code.

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  • [–] 94 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    And then yesterday he said something along the lines of "we need to make it harder to contribute to the Linux kernel." Which I believe he means to say "oh god there's so much being submitted all of a sudden and it's all slop."

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago

    a great way to find joy in programming

    I already had that, thanks Linus. Did you not?

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  • [–] 25 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    I’ve been thinkin:

    We went from STEM to STEAM. But I think we really need SHTEAM. (The H is for Humanities.)

    Philosophy, psychology, history, basically anything that would get nerds to think about the social consequences of the stuff they like to tinker with.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Warning! very unpopular opinion

    TitleI hate STEAM, preferred when it was just STEM.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    very unpopular opinion

    True! I think your opinion sucks lemming! 😎 /s

    But seriously, while I do think STEAM sounds a little dumb compared to STEM (and I'm young enough where I saw the name changing happening in real time and despite being at the age where it's easy to impress on kids, I never really cared for the name), I absolutely agree with the idea that we need to teach STEM kids and professionals more about the non-tech side of hard sciences and subjects.

    SHTEAM sounds and looks stupid as shit, but we should absolutely take steps to properly educated up-and-coming STEM majors that they need to understand how their work and inventions affect humanity, along with actually having an appreciation for the work that they will do. Not teaching these things is how we create idiots that are proudly declaring "Mecha hitler" and "AI will kill us all, and that's good!"

    People complain about electives and gen ed classes in college like, "why do I, a science major, have to take an ethics class?" and then go on to become Sam Altman. As a STEM major, I fucking hate those people. I understand you want to get your money's worth in college, but having to learn history and take one ethics or culture class should always be mandatory. I have learned so much about people and become more knowledgeable about humans and empathy through arts and ethics classes, and have gained an appreciation for them. It also affects how you do tech in general too. So often do I hear about coders, security analysts, data scientists, etc who make music, art, literature etc, and feel like it affects and improves how they work.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    but having to learn history and take one ethics or culture class should always be mandatory.

    Fuck it, one of each. Programmers had the opportunity to show they could handle not getting a humanities education with their diploma and they blew it.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again : eventually you just fucking end up with "be a complete person; here's the entire dewey decimal system."

    STEM is meant to deal with logic based thinking and the problems unique to that industry, like for instance, a huge gender gap. Shoving arts and humanities in doesn't fix the issue. Cross disciple collaboration is great, expanding your horizons and putting ethics into practices is great, but that's not what STEM is.

    There are already plans for these things in practice (hippocratic oath, iron^[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calling_of_an_Engineer] ring^[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring] ), which need to become more widespread. We don't have to have STEAM toys and SHMEAT courses.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I don't understand what's he talking about. I was forced to use AI by my employer and instantly lost all the joy in programming.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    Have it do the tedious work

    Have it create a better testing environment

    Have it do bunch of edge case things or automate ui testing.

    Use it as a tool. You can still be the brains.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    I agree, but the question is, how to use responsibly. I like to use it as an assistant that can look things up. Googling has the tendency to bring up outdated information, a good AI model is able to cross-reference what it finds with documentation and release notes. I never let the AI write anything for me though.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    This is exactly how I use it too. Google and other search engines have gone to complete shit in order to cater to LLMs. So that's how I use the LLM. You are my search bitch, Gemini. No, you're not allowed to actually create anything.

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  • [–] 48 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

    Ah, yes, "when used responsibly." Like how we use drugs, alcohol, guns, cars, money, power, and everything else responsibly? Humans can't be trusted with things that do more harm than good when used irresponsibly.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago (-1 children)

    Then just let AI use AI. I'll collect my Nobel prize now thx.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago (-1 children)

    AI is the car of modern times. It's convenient, ruinous for the environment, and a danger to anyone in proximity of one. Hell, we even wasted tons of land on highways kinda like what we're doing with datacenters. But boy, does it get you from point A to point B quick.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    "Knives cause lots of stabbings, so let's ban knives"

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    All those things, including knives, are heavily regulated, yes.

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  • [+] -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (-1 children)

    In plenty of countries carrying knives in public is not allowed. You can own one for use in your home or work but don't brandish it out in the open.

    The reason few people know this is because it's rarely ever needed, and the people violating that law are generally the people you want arrested anyway (e.g. because they're trying to stab someone).

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  • [–] -5 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Nice try to equating a knife to fucking drugs. AI is even worse than drugs, is like the digital version of nuclear weaponry: it shouldn't even exist.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I swear, some people still think Prohibition was a great idea.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    It was.

    If the goal was to reduce the amount the average American drank alcohol year over year (and that was the goal) it was an overwhelming success; not only during prohibition but thereafter as well.

    Banning stuff and then enforcing the ban works really well and we have tons of evidence of it working; not just in the US but literally world-wide.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    You seem to have missed the 1001 negative side effects of Prohibition, that eclipsed the tiny ideological victory of reducing drinking.

    https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/unintended-consequences

    Additionally, there is no consensus on whether Prohibition was even successful at that, owing to a lack of hard data.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States

    This is quite aside from the fact that today we've figured out that criminalising drugs and users is the wrong approach and does a lot more harm than good. But we STILL have people like you.

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  • Every country that has legalized or decriminalized drug use and promotes safe and responsible usage with support systems such as addictions counseling and drug purity testing has shown a decrease in drug use and addiction rates and overdose deaths. Whereas the 'war on drugs' has been going strong for like 100 years and usage in the US keeps rising, deaths keep growing, addiction rates are skyrocketing... And billions of dollars go to criminal enterprises. AI is so much worse than drugs and while open source models might seem like a friendly weed dealer on the corner they're actually getting their product from the same monsters and gangsters that are selling crack to schoolchildren (those are the big AI companies).

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Some humans cannot own knives responsibility. It doesn't mean I have to cut the pineapple with a spoon.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    Correct - knives do more good than harm, even when some people use them irresponsibly. My point is that AI doesn't; even when some people could arguably say that they use it responsibly and do good work, those that use it for slop, to perpetuate disinformation, and to further degrade our ability to think critically outweigh those people.

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    [–] 61 points 3 weeks ago (17 children)
  • [+] -45 points 3 weeks ago (16 children)

    stop trying to force a reality that fits your narrative

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  • [–] 47 points 3 weeks ago (15 children)

    lol how many tokens did you burn today

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  • [–] 35 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Its been an hour, the chatbot hasn't given them the perfect retort yet.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    believe it or not i have the ability to still use my mind even when there are tools at my disposal! And I was at the local veggie market talking to people during that hour, so sadly again your narrative is wrong 😞 your response, however, pretty low effort... might need to throw a captcha at you

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  • [+] -18 points 3 weeks ago* (9 children)

    let's see, i woke up and did jiu jitsu. I went to the local vegetable market with my dog, bought some breakfast and got some coffee and practiced my Spanish with the vendor. I spoke with a nice lady about art residencies and her desire to live an alternative lifestyle even though shes 75. I had a conversation about iterative prisoner's dilemma game theory. Then I came home and now I'm replying to your low dimensional attempt at an insult, while spending some tokens to fix a form validation bug across a web app 💙

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)
  • [+] -8 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    how sad that's what you decided to highlight...

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    How sad that you engage in sloppery.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    this transports me back to high school level communication, thanks for the nostalgia 😄 🙏

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Oh so you’re used to getting dunked on. Good to know.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    oof, i really hope this sample is not representative of the general type of people on this forum. go outside and find some nature to sit in

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    The general type being the type that pushes back against your bullshit? Yeah I bet you really don’t like that, huh?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago

    I want to give a better response to this because I think it's important, assuming you decide to trust any of the words an internet stranger might say...

    I don't mean this personally, but with respect to the topic at hand, I really just think you're oblivious to one important thing, which is that we probably share more alignment than you imagine. There is the part of me that just wants to troll on the internet and "dunk" on people, but I also feel like I'm growing out of that in the interest of hoping there's a way to use technology to collaborate with each other instead of cause more divergence.

    The point that I'm trying to make (and acknowledging that you're probably not reading my other comments) is that your tactics seem to be one where you're pushing against something that's bigger than you and wasting more energy than what you're gaining, likely at the benefit of the very thing you're raging against. Of course, this is not a black and white universe, hopefully you are gaining something, but only you know if you're operating at a gain/deficit.

    Nonetheless, I feel strongly that all of this anger and hatred toward AI could have a more eloquent approach - a "tai chi" sense of going with the current and then guiding it into something utilizing its momentum for more positive outcomes.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    That's how I felt when I found MDMA, and it allowed me to find joy in parties and being around people. If used responsibly, of course.

    I'm getting exactly the same feeling with AI now. It is instant dopamine fun, but I can see it being addicting in exactly the same way. Of course I tell myself I'll use it responsibly, for work, and keep my skills sharp by making sure to do some of my own projects, and be responsible in properly reviewing and checking my code.

    Just as I told myself that I'll keep a healthy pause of two months between mdma use, and have a rogorous vitamine and supplements plans based on the most recommended harm reduction research.

    Sure, I did manage to do that for the first half a year or so, you can guess how it is now.

    It's pretty unsettling how exactly the same it feels, the way you slowly start giving up on things you've sworn to do, and how you slowly start to be unable to do/enjoy the thing (be it parties or coding) without it.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    We have R U OK? day here and the idea is to check in on people you know to de-stigmatise mental health issues.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    So how do they gatekeep the vibecoders out then? FOSS need to change and develop new quality control systems. Stop complaining about vibecode, just review it before you use it. Why can't you do it?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    rationing:

    Limit lines of code or diff size. Limit scope. Limit PR per user per month. No bots, obviously. New users don't get to send anything, they can comment and vote, at best. And bring in negative ratings for contributors: low quality, suspicious code, bad PRs.

    This is another way of saying deceleration, a word that accelerationists hate.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago

    Because the pace of code production has officially overwhelmed the human capacity to review it. As it was discussed recently. Linus answer was to use more AI, with the implementation of code review tools that gobble up code and spew out summaries.

    For the time being, humans reading the summaries count as human reviewed. But at some point in time this system will crack. The current zeitgeist is to restrict who can contribute. Which leads to the obvious follow up question of who decides based on what, and how to decide who deserves to contribute.

    You just witnessed the first steps into the philosophical and political erosion of the open source movement. Not just on the kernel but it is also affecting almost all popular FOSS projects.

    But of course, that doesnt matter because Linux is not and has never been political. /s

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Stop complaining about vibecode, just review it

    Hahaha. Not a developer, huh?

    There is no way I could possibly review my coworkers' 1000s of lines of code he posts daily. I just blindly approve it because fuggggit we don't care about quality only velocity.

    This is different from before because before he would normally post 2 or 3 small code changes per week. Also, he would have tested it himself so starting off it would already be in a good state. Also, since he tested himself, we could talk about the change since he still had the context.

    Now it's just ship, ship, ship. We literally can't "review it" like we did before. That world is gone.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

    The fucking point that Linus misses is, using AI by itself is intrinsically the more irresponsible thing to do. Change my mind.

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  • [–] [S] -5 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    You are claiming it's irresponsible, why do you say so?

    AI is just a technology, how you use it makes it bad or not.

    Nuclear is the cleanest safest energy we have, but you can also make bombs with it.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    I've read this article before. Found it very reductionist. For example, it says that weapons might be good for Ukraine, but they're bad in general. You can't just "in general" something like weapons or AI. They have thousands of different contexts and use cases. Sure, a weapon can make somebody homocidal in one context, but it might make somebody a militia in another context. AI can be a slop generator for a vibe coder, and a bug detection tool for Linus Torvalds.

    I'm not a fan of how modern politics and social justice is so reductionist nowadays. "One aspect of X is bad, so we must reject X altogether". Can we add even a little nuance to our discussions? This mindset is brainrot.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago*

    In other words, you found an article whose headline seems to make your point for you - which you probably didn't even read or you might have an actual answer. I did read it, and found the reasoning spurious, like jumping through a series of philosophical hoops to prove all taxes are illegal or that birds don't exist. The author's example of a Chinese dish with an unusually large amount of chopped peppers being more easily eaten with chopsticks than with a fork, could just as well have been a bowl of broth that's much easier to eat with a spoon than with chopsticks. All it demonstrates is that any tool can have appropriate and inappropriate use cases. They're still just tools.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago

    How do? Does this apply even if it's a locally run LLM? Even if it's done using green energy like Mistral? Even if all of the AI written code is carefully reviewed by professionals?

    Is it a problem of making it too easy for people? If so, what is the correct amount of easiness for people? Shall we start taking clothing down to the river to scrub instead of using washing machines too?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Torvalds is doing an illicit substitution of Claude, Gemini, Copilot et al. for the vague term AI, which also includes local models, open-weight models and things that aren't LLM (machine translations, for example), thus ignoring the ethical issues associated with the operation of commercial AI/LLM services.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

    Most tokens sold come from China today and open weight models, and most (EDIT) 42% of energy produced in China is from clean sources like nuclear or renewables. Don't blame AI for ethics or lack thereof in neoliberal capitalism and a lack of planning or regulations. China also has the most and smartest regulations on AI so far.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Does Linux Torvalds use those Chinese and open weight models? Iirc he was using Claude

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago

    The point is that fuckai aims to outright villanize people who use AI, although in a proper democratic society we would have massively invested in nuclear and renewables.

    The principles would be "If a material good or service can be produced ethically but is only not produced ethically due to profit maximizing which the individual has no power over, then the individual is not ethically responsible for using or boycotting it".

    Or said simpler, the whole fuckai demagoguery is misdirecting anger that should go towards capitalism and especially neoliberal capitalism against people just trying to exist in the fucking system.

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  • [+] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Thanks for correcting. But overall the trend rapidly goes upwards year by year for china.

    The more general argument would be that you can't blame an individual for systemic ills, which has been done to death for climate change and tried to turn it into personal responsibility. We do not live in true democracies but capitalist societies. And we can't be expected to "opt out of the system". If something could be implemented in a way that is ethical but isn't because the ruling plutocrats make more profit that way, this is not the individuals fault. This demonization of people for using AI is unethical and a strategic blunder in a fight for liberation and ultimately only serves to shield specifically neoliberal capitalism from critique.

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