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[–] 210 points 3 weeks ago (70 children)

Is it possible the political divide in this country is people with lead poisoning vs. those without it?

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  • [–] 139 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (31 children)

    Bruh they put lead in gasoline until the 80s.

    MAGA is 10% nazis, 10% cult members, 10% painfully-ignorant cunts, 69% lead addled boomers/genx

    and 1% rich fucks manipulating the rest of them.

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  • [–] 56 points 3 weeks ago (22 children)

    airplane fuel is still leaded.

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  • [–] 84 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    You are correct, but since some may read that and assume that all aviation fuel is leaded, I wanted to add more info.

    Most people don't know that "airplane fuel" and "jet fuel" are different. Jet fuel is not leaded. The fuel used by small, piston-driven prop engines is. Because small piston aircraft still use leaded fuel, aviation is still the largest source of airborne lead emissions. The FAA is working to phase it out by 2030.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 weeks ago

    You know what's funny? One of the "quirky" things about the Fallout Universe is how everything is radioactive because all their tech is based on fission/fusion right? It's meant to be funny like haha yeah our pollution is bad but atleast we're not poisoning ourselves with everything we do. Yet if you sub out "radioactive" for "heavy metal contamination" and "microplastics" etc that's basically 100% accurate to real life america.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago

    Iirc locations downwind or under approach/depart flight lanes of small airports deal with an exposure risk fairly above baseline. I feel like I remember reading then that it ties into modern redlining where there are more minority populations in those areas due to cost of housing and the generational impacts of lead exposure.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Just flew with 100LL, and I also clean up with anti-lead soap. I'm the only pilot I know who does this, but I can't wait to fly something electric ugh.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago

    The politics and logistics issues holding back lead free avgas are extremely frustrating. I really thought we would have seen that transition by now.

    Who knows, maybe it will take electric aircraft to finally put an end to the issue.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

    Most people don't handle airplane fuel

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  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The danger from leaded fuels don't come from handling, but from the exhaust. The lead becomes breathable and enters the environment, exposing those who lived in urban areas and near roads to more lead than others.

    The other poster isn't wrong about airplane fuel being leaded, but that can be misleading because most people don't know that "airplane fuel" and "jet fuel" are different. Jet fuel is not leaded, but the fuel used by small, piston-driven prop engines is.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 weeks ago

    Yeah but the jet stream takes care of any concerning concentrations of exhaust.

    Even under 10,000 ft the atmospheric dispersion is orders of magnitude above surface.

    The turbulence at the surface on a bad day can 'lock out' the upper atmosphere sometimes, which is extra dangerous for surface car exhaust - but is actually beneficial the higher your altitude vs ground.

    So in all ways the ways airplane fuel would expose someone to lead, isnt experienced by the general populace. (minus directly handling the fuel, may have concentrated lead get on someone's hand/food, but thats another situation)

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Does the lead in the exhaust come down into the air we breathe? Lead is heavy. Would probably be more in cities with airports and under flight paths. Diluted of course, but repeated every day... Perhaps a tin hat or mask would help.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Atmospheric dispersion is usually actually concerning good not bad, so it should dilute across the globe fairly quickly.

    Air pollution usually becomes an issue when something like nuclear waste reaches the atmosphere, cause we ALL get to breathe in that nuclear waste.

    But honestly some (probably large) percentage of meteors are lead deposited right to the atmosphere, cause its so atomically stable nearly everything decays to it.

    So no matter what there's some lead in the soup, and I can't see jet fuel being a large contributer (to an already small amount)

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Well jet exhaust would be a very large contributor if it were leaded, but luckily it isn't. It's just piston powered prop planes that use leaded "avgas", anything with a turbine uses an unleaded jet fuel.

    As it is, it's pretty bad, but it could be a lot worse. Airborne lead is really quite bad for many aspects of biology. If small planes stopped burning leaded fuel today, I'm quite sure we would be able to track a measurable difference in health and educational outcomes within a decade.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Thats a good point, not even turboprops are leaded if I remember right.

    Obviously it'd require a lot of study to definitively say the impact of the lead, but I'm convinced the impact wouldn't be able to compare to natural levels in that atmospheric environment. Like we love our planes, but its still energetically really difficult for us to get them up there - but space rocks can have a hard time NOT burning up in our atmosphere. And lead is a larger than uniform part of our universe because its atomic stability, so odds are (IMO) atmospheres relatively lead-y, but have been for centuries.

    That and the difficulty creating hotspots in such a turbulent environment makes it required to increase the entire atmosphere's lead content to increase any one area to dangerous levels.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    Well honestly, I have to admit, I'd never previously considered the amount of lead added to the atmosphere by meteors. But considering it now... only about 6% of meteors are the metallic variety. I had to look up what the average chemical makeup of these is like, but it appears that they're mostly iron and nickel, with lead making up a small percentage of the remainder, probably less than 1%. So all and all, it doesn't seem like they actually deposit all that much lead.

    Conversely, the connection between the use of leaded gasoline and lead levels in the environment is really very well documented and clear. We know that eliminating it from standard gasoline has made a profound difference. The volume of exhaust from small planes is of course dwarfed by the volume from cars and trucks, so the damage that's still occurring is significantly less, but it's still meaningful.

    So... I don't have any solid data for you here, but my intuition is that a handful of meteors probably can't add close to as much lead to the atmosphere as millions of vehicles burning leaded gas.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago*

    lol no. Lead in the atmosphere is a problem, because if it's in the atmosphere, you are breathing it. Remember that next time you see a gas plant spewing out exhaust.

    Nuclear power plants will not exhaust anything except water vapor unless things go terribly wrong. Things going terribly wrong basically cannot release radiation with modern designs unless you were to bomb the core directly, with large bombs to defeat the containment building and massive amounts of stuff surrounding them...

    Fossil fuels are infinitely worse for everyone than nuclear, with or without lead.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Effective January 1, 1996, the Clean Air Act banned the sale of the small amount of leaded fuel that was still available in some parts of the country for use in on-road vehicles.

    Where were these places?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    IIRC farm co-ops, rural gas stations, bulk purchases for fleets, etc…

    I can remember my grandpa, a career trucker and grease monkey, grumbling about having to use lead substitute in his 60s Ford pickup when I was very young.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    We had one gas station in my town in Oklahoma that sold it right up to the deadline. I used it because both my vehicles were built for it.

    Cars made before the 70s need the extra lubrication in the valves or the engines wear out much quicker. Engines made for unleaded fuel usually have valve sleeves to prevent excessive wear.

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  • [–] 54 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    The Boomers grew up with EVERYTHING having lead in it, including the air thanks to leaded gasoline. Prolonged lead poisoning is almost surely a factor there.

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  • [+] 24 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Eh, Gen-z who are chuds do of course hold responsibility for their own actions, but they were started down the path by really hard to overcome disadvantages previous generations had where family was present to socialize them, teach them how to treat others, previous generations had third spaces to socialize with peers to learn how not to be asshats, to learn what behaviors wouldn’t be tolerated, and the silent generation, boomers, and now gen-x (my gen) ARE guilty of one by one letting or actively helping all the structures that made socialization and generationally passed down behavioral guidance possible go away or be stripped by stopping the flow of corporate gains to the lower and middle classes, forcing families to all work, and sometimes all work multiple jobs, they voted against social programs, against traditional funding that built transportation systems, parks, and other third spaces by reducing taxation on the wealthy in the name of lowering taxes and the Ayn Rand myth of extreme self reliance.

    When you stop investing in society, you stop getting the benefits of a society, and the first to go is the social contract, where people treat each other with some level of respect due to acknowledgement of said social contract, for the most part.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    You just described each generations qualms with what the generations before them left them.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

    This might be true if the investment in society, infrastructure and lower classes always had been the same or same direction. After wwii it changed drastically and in favor of the working class and those in need, and society benefited greatly from it, there’s datapoints to show this to be true. Then there was a backlash from the wealthy to all the civil rights movements, labor movements and those investments were pulled back strategically. This is new, because it isn’t a continual trend over time, but that pull back has continued from the 1970s to today’s date.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, in either comment.

    Just know that every generation has had the capacity to point at the things that were done because the data exists and the lived experience exists.

    Just wait till we discover the novel and fun ways our generations fuck over the earth.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Also radioactive fallout from nuclear testing (over 1000 nuclear devices in the US) during their early development

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  • [–] 18 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    I have been pointing this out for like 20 years. Even with good sanitation and PPE, lead residue from shooting is surprisingly hard tocompletely eliminate. I was as shooting maybe a couple of times per week, primarily with a bolt action rifle and shotgun, wearing gloves, wiping things down, and I could still find detectable lead residue on my range bag, and in my car (!).

    Someone who is putting hundreds of rounds per week of dog shit ammo through their AR is 1000% exposing themselves and their family to a slowly increasing background supply of lead.

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  • [–] 21 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Someone on Lemmy wrote, a little over a year ago I think, that lead ossifies in the bones and then gets released into the blood as bones soften with age. This then affects the brain and might explain why older people have seemingly sudden personality changes. I think about this often.

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  • [–] 36 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)
  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (6 children)

    This just proves that broader economic trends exist, but especially cause how much it detaches at the end, yet increases in step this is obviously not causation, and is really only loose correlation

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    The divergence makes sense.

    Children age out of the sample cohort, but still have high lead levels and still contribute to the crime cohort.

    I'd expect to see the lead level rate be proportional to the birth rate and the crime rate proportional to the death rate. Having the chart extend another 15 years to today might show that.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    That's incorrect. It's correlation, not causation.

    If lead were such a direct cause of violence, they should start diverging at the introduction of lead, not long after a notable decline in lead levels. (ok ok not diverge at first, but still have a predictable, visible connection throughout)

    Children grow up constantly, and only one of the lines is not age-restricted. If it were to ever diverge while still being a major cause, it'd begin to diverge at the introduction of the stimulus... or rather, start to diverge when the supposed initiating cause was reduced.

    As you say, lead is a lifetime problem. If it were to be a tent pole contributor to violence, violence wouldn't have reduced in lockstep basically ever.

    Lead is a massive problem and is a toxin, but it surely did not itself contribute to increased violence. Increased stupidity? Absolutely.

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  • [–] 25 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    The "Super gun owners" account for only like 3% of Americans. And a lot of those still don't shoot enough to meaningfully manifest the symptoms of lead poisoning on its own.

    It's probably just medical advances letting bitter racist old fucks live longer.

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  • [–] 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Old fucks who grew up with so much lead in the atmosphere from burning gasoline that the lead from a few recreational bullets is just noise.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago

    And the paint, don't forget the leaded paint. And the ceramic tile. And cosmetics. And costume jewelry. And pipes/plumbing. And pottery. And older vinyl, like blinds. And almost all older strained glass uses lead to hold the panels together. And even older plastics often contained lead to soften the material, and we all know how badly old plastic often deteriorates.

    There's a shit ton of lead in products made before the turn of the century.

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  • [–] 54 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
  • [–] 45 points 3 weeks ago (13 children)

    I'm not surprised. People don't even wash their hands after using the rest room.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

    Oh shit. Is that why my eye is read?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Jesus. Look through my post history and it will all make sense.

    I gotta stop posting here first thing in the morning -_-

    I said in one of my posts something like "this is house my cat sits"

    How. The word was how. I said house. I made her a house sitting. And now my eye is a reader.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    I've stopped stressing over perfect grammar and spelling myself. I go for 90% accuracy, that's good enough.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Adhd? "this is how... Sits". I bet your brain sent the command to type "my cat" but made a a cogntivie connection to house sitting based on the sound of your head voice is it tried to generate the sentence faster than you could type. Like it already voiced out to "sits" while your finger were still on "Ho". Idk, I catch a similar mistake weekly. Usually more like typing a homophone or like my fingers just start trying to sound out the word they thought they heard as my head voice has raced ahead.

    I'd love to learn more about how communication works in our brains and how it varies between modes. I could see fingers and voice being the same part, but does hearing route a different way? How similarly does the head voice work?

    Then, there's the part where something like 10 or 20% of the population doesn't even have a hear voice. And from there, those with the strongest head voice make micro movements of their vocal chords when thinking, while those with no voice make no movements at all.

    Fucking la gauge, how does it work

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    I just avoid pissing on my hands. /s

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  • [–] 44 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    doesn't lead toxicity cause aggressive behavior? Seems like a pretty bad mix. Almost like you could hypothesize a correlation between our current political climate and lead exposure.

    Wouldn't it be crazy if we could solve a big chunk of our political issues by just banning lead in stuff?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Well, problem is that it's more of a slow time release thing with lead in the brain. We're still dealing with the fallout from lead in paint and water pipes that were banned decades ago but it takes a while for the lead to leech into the brain, so they don't tend to get dumber and more aggressive until later in life. So the people touching lead ammo will probably get worse as they age. Of course there could already be significant overlap with the lead paint and lead ammo people. In which case they're probably just fucked.

    So it might help, but it will take a lot longer than we'd like.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago

    We are still seeing a net decrease in crime from the ban of lead paint and lead in gas.

    It doesnt just fall off within 6-12 months of stopping exposure. The decline in negative issues from lead exposure can take generations

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