top 100 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 413 points 1 year ago (13 children)

It says you're bound by "opening and using" the product, rather than "opening or using". Have someone else open it for you. Then neither of you have done both.

  • source
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 79 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Contractual malicious compliance let's go

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Yeah but just to be clear, the terms are likely there for a reason and using this product probably has risks associated.

    The only product I want to use with a liability waiver attached is the bungie cord at the fair.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Apparently, it's full of lead.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 246 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    This is Vital Proteins brilliant response to being taken to court over heavy metal and "foreign materials" contamination in their products.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] [S] 54 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    Do you have any supporting links? I saw a reddit post saying something similar but I cant find a real article or support. Either way I am returning the product.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 150 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/prop65/complaints/2017-02480C5316.pdf

    Found searching ‘“vital proteins” lawsuit’

    Sued by an environmental nonprofit for failing to warn about the presence of lead and heavy metals as required by CA law. They settled.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Seems like a labelling issue due to california laws rather than legitimate ingredient flaws with toxic or heavy metals.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Honestly you should assume all supplements are toxic and full of heavy metals, because that shit is virtually unregulated.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    To some degree I totally agree. If you don't find 3rd party lab verified then I'd be skeptical. Not just any 3rd party. It has to be from legitimate Orgs and trusted vendors.

    I'm unsure how much people look at labels now days, unless you have a health issue requiring it. The levels of say vitamins manufacturers add to even like biotin or other vitamins/supplements. Thousands and sometimes 10s of thousands more than a daily dose your body can consume. Which means your kidneys or liver have to process that out. Things are toxic in high doses.

    Its all about balance. A lot of these supplements are way way out of balance. It's a shame, businesses or people can't be reputable.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 125 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I wonder if we're not fucking ourselves.

    "Not enforceable" may have been a thing of the past, with the way technology has developed. We may be approaching a point where terms & conditions ARE enforceable.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 108 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Isn't that an illegally forced agreement? I mean, the consumer already bought the product and is forced to enter an agreement after the fact? At least it feels like it would be illegal.

    It's the same with software, sure, but somehow I've been brainwashed into thinking it's ok because it's a digital product/I only agree to a license of said product.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    If this is in the US you are 1 year away before companies can run Squid Games, "illegally forced agreement" is a thing of the past

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] 107 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Add to this the fact they try to enforce mandatory arbitration - a thing that shouldn't ever exist to begin with, in any jurisdiction, and is actually unenforceable in many.

  • source
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 49 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    In most of Europe, no contract can take away legal rights

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Same in the USA, but that doesn't mean they won't try.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm pretty sure forced arbitration is in fact legal and enforceable in the US (at least for the most part? I am not a lawyer)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago*

    Unfortunately, the US doesn't yet consider that a legal right. Sadly, courts take the position that if you don't agree with the terms, don't buy the product. Even in the cases where you couldn't access the terms ahead of the sale.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It doesn't matter if you can't afford the lawsuit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago*

    The legal system in Australia is better because if you win a lawsuit, the losing side usually has to pay your legal fees. As a result, there's far fewer frivolous lawsuits, and companies don't drag out lawsuits hoping the other party runs out of money (which is a common tactic in the USA), since they could be on the hook for all those costs.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Then lack or presence thereof won't help you, either.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 93 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    No way this is legally binding. It amounts to a bait and switch. A product was purchased and provided without agreement to any further terms. Then they sneak in supposed terms after the fact based upon the action of opening the product. That is a change in agreement made without any consideration for the purchaser. That's not generally allowed in contact law.

    Furthermore, I really doubt that they can get away with the argument that the act of opening a product can constitute any amount of conscious agreement to some writing on a package. If for no other reason than that this is (afaik) a novel way to attempt to coerce agreement such that nobody would expect such an agreement to be part of the opening process and likely won't notice it.

    And it's not accessible for every person who may be using this product even if they do notice the words. Are you a non-English speaker? Farsighted? Blind? Illiterate? Would you have any way to even be aware that those words are terms that somehow binding you to an agreement by virtue of your opening the thing you just bought? Would you have any reason to even suspect that that is the case?

    Also, they'll undoubtedly claim that the fact that you have the opened product means that you agreed to the terms, but that is also not the case. Your mom opened it for you and wrapped it as a gift? You bought it secondhand? The packaging was torn open when it shipped to you and you never had any reason to see this text in the first place? It was misprinted? Any of those things and more would mean you never agreed to anything. And they have no way to prove any of those things weren't the case.

    Just stupid. I have zero doubt that any number of lawyers would love take this to court and get that payday.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Absofuckinglutely

    If I bought it and got home and found this, I'd return it as I have before. You're not trapping me into agreeing for anything without the notice on the OUTSIDE of the product packaging. Fuck this

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It actually does have legal precident. You know how you can't read or accept the EULA for software until after you purchase it?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They get away with stuff like that when they have sold you a "license" to their software, rather than something you gave actually purchased outright. It is argued that a license is a an agreement to access a software product, rather than ownership of it, and putting an EULA in between your license purchase or changing it later doesn't affect your purchase because you continue to hold the license even if you choose not to agree to the terms necessary to use it. It's a bit different for a physical item that you have actual ownership over, not a license to use it (pending agreement).

    I also find all of that to be loophole bullshit that should be fixed, but that's a separate issue.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    While true, the software put it in your face and forces you to interact with a screen that says "EULA". I doubt using a consumable as intended will hold any jurisprudence. But then again look who we have appointing judges right now...

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 92 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Would love to see them try and enforce whatever EULA they wrote up.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They’ll drag out any legal challenge in hopes you won’t want to pay for months of legal fees fighting it, on top of whatever legal fees are incurred that caused you to challenge it in the first place…

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sometimes mandatory arbitration doesn't work out so well for companies either as Valve found out. When they run into what are effectively class action lawsuits but they get forced into individual arbitration with hundreds of thousands of people that clause starts to look really dumb.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 73 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    There's an easy solution: keep buying it, break the seal to get to the message, then return it. Have your friends do the same, at the same store. Pretty soon that product will be gone and you can move on to the next store.

    If the store starts to bitch about it, you can claim that you wanted to see if the statement had been removed.

  • source
  • [–] 72 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Forced Arbitration should be illegal everywhere.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 70 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    By reading this comment, you agree to be bound eternally in thrall to me, and wear a maid dress for my amusement.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Ugh damn it man. okay pm me your address

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Time to use the box cutter and open it from the bottom.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 55 points 1 year ago

    That's concerning.

  • source
  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago

    I hope you returned that shit. That’s not mildly infuriating, that’s capitalism has officially run amok and needs to be taken out back and shot in the head

  • source
  • [+] 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ackchyually, that makes it easier to sue them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Attorney: -calls witness, a physicist- Physicist: “by simply observing this product, even without opening it, your clients life was changed in some way.” Attorney: “crazy label people, pay up!”

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I mean, you at least should be reimbursed for the costs of returning it to the store (bus fare/gas, and an hour of your time), and it’s probably not worth it to anyone to sue them for it, but I really wish someone would

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Vital Proteins got bought out by Nestle and almost immediately turned to shit iirc

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Interesting how we've all become accustomed to the notion that "agreeing to arbitration" has just become "waving your consumer rights" and no lawmaker is pushing to have that fixed.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Holy shit. How does this not just reduce their sales to 0?

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Assuming you're talking about the US, this is correct.

    In the US you need to both actively acknowledge acceptance of the T&Cs, which simply opening a package typically doesn't meet.

    Also, and arguably more important, they need to include the entirety of the T&Cs for you to be able to review before accepting. This means on the packaging or presented at time of purchase, not requiring you to go elsewhere to find them or having to search them out.

    Now even though it's not legally enforceable, I'd say it's still scummy and companies that do it should be avoided.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    You know how all these companies are making it lives shittier?

    Well people are what companies are. And people are the absolute fucking worst.

    And unfortunately there are on orders of magnitude more shitty people who don't run the worst companies in existence than there are people who work for the worst of companies that are making them what they are.

    Find your people, the ones that don't suck, because there are a lot more people who only want what's convenient for them and can't spare one spark of concern for all of the consequences that affect entirely too many people that don't want their decisions

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Are you saying poop can be religious? It’s an inanimate object so I disagree. Your whole comment is dumb.

    See I ignored the rest and just assumed. That’s how.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Just wait until you hear about holy water.

    I do get the point of your comment, but I couldn’t resist

    Edit: it’s also funny as hell that you got downvoted, thereby proving your point. People really don’t read to the end of things

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    "By opening AND using this product (...)"

    Have someone else open it for you, then consume the product yourself. Boom, no contract. Checkmate, lawyers!

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago

    At the board meeting, I want to hear when they decided to broadcast that they're expecting to get sued, but in a really cute way

  • source
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›