Of course (media.piefed.zip)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
 
Of course

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[+] 329 points 1 month ago (21 children)
  • [–] 217 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    LibreOffice just outright stating their policy of 'no AI' as a feature made me respect them so much more.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    I wonder how long this will hold. Remind me 3 years?

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  • [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    I think “no AI” policies are a good thing and the intention is (likely) not literally forbidding AI; they couldn’t in any meaningful way. But the code should have a human attribution and ownership. If the code reeks of LLM, it’s shitty code quality. If people open MRs saying it was written by an agent, they distance themselves from their contribution but expect others to review and integrate it; which is also shitty behavior.

    If on the other hand it’s well crafted code that was being thought through and refined, no one should or could care if an LLM was involved.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

    Yes, eventually no one will care, that's my point. Using AI will become as normalized as using the internet for help, so the no AI policy will not hold. I agree that people should still own their changes and be held responsible for the quality.

    Edit: I checked the actual source, they actually already allow the use of AI for contributions but with multiple restrictions: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/AI_policy

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  • [–] 82 points 4 weeks ago* (5 children)

    It's only tragic for a month, after which the other project gets abandoned because its unmaintainable or the vibecoder got bored and moved on to another viral idea

    I'm not going to switch to something unless I know its going to be around when I need it

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  • [–] 14 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    That rule where something is expected to last in the future as long as it already has in the past probably applies here

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  • [–] 15 points 4 weeks ago

    The person behind all these *craft projects has (or claims to have) made millions from his AI image / video creation services and scam-enabling deepfake voice cloner. The projects are linked to and funded by his commercial endeavors. He's also extremely exuberant about real developers and creators losing their jobs, and suffers from massive AI psychosis. Unfortunately I don't think he or this project is going anywhere.

    I don't think any of it will ever actually work, but he's very good at making outlandish comments and drumming up hype, so we're going to keep hearing about it anyway.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    It's good enough that my 75yo mother picked it up without trouble when I switched her to Mint after W10 went EoL.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    Same. My 60+ mother got a new computer recently, saw the prices of MS Office and told me "install that free thing". So far no complaints, first remark was "well, looks like it has all the same buttons, works for me"

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  • [–] 14 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    I wish the people at my company were like your mother. Instead, they freak out about the smallest of changes in the UI of the same application. God forbid they have to move to another application entirely. Had a user freak out their application wasn't licensed and they couldn't use all functions anymore. Turns out they just managed to somehow hide the toolbar with all the options... These are people anywhere from 20 to 60 years old, btw.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago

    Yeah, it is not an age thing. I'm very happy that my mother has always been pretty good at programming solving. Although she never did any real tech related job, I believe this is a question of attitude more than anything else.

    When she proudly tells me she used my dad's phone to google for a fix for her phone acting up, my inner first year support monkey is proud :)

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Is it though?

    I try it but it doesn’t feel good. It feels like a clone of Office 2004.

    —

    I just installed it, open an xlsx file, it opens to the document explorer panel not my document.

    Okay, weird, where’s my file? Open it again.

    It’s your first time here, customize the app! Here are 5 different UI paradigms to choose from. Okay, I guess compact?

    Don’t forget the theme! Sure, okay, use automatic theme and default 2004 style icons.

    LibreOffice needs to restart to apply settings. I watched it dynamically update in the background, but okay.

    Restarts Tip of the day: you can change your appearance settings! Run this action now? No. Why? Close.

    Okay, I spent all that time customizing my tab bar, and yet, Calc doesn’t use a tab bar, so there’s no change at all after all that? No idea if that’s a macOS thing or not because it puts the toolbar values in the menu bar.

    Okay, well let’s make a pivot table. Seems decent, it’s a clean Excel clone here, decent functionality. Needs a count distinct and some custom aggregations.

    What’s this “Data” field though? Drag it to first slot: LibreOffice hard crashes. At least it saved my document.

    Reopen file, let’s zoom out. Click and drag zoom slider, it creates a glitched rectangle around the active cell that tears vs rest of screen that doesn’t always update. It looks like the full page only zooms on certain values while deagging, but on release that sticks.

    Let’s make a chart. Select 3 items plus total in my pivot. Click chart button. 3 bars in the chart, where my total bar? Data field is blocked out on pivot take charts. Change chart type, wait 3 seconds for a re render. Try to move the chart but have to click off first.

    Okay, let’s delete the chart now. Press delete button: “This function cannot be completed on the selected objects”. Huh? Oh I have to click off, then select the chart again, then delete it.

    —

    That was my 10 minute experiment. It feels just as bad in a web browser. The Skia renderer is so much better than the old system, but like, I found all this crap in 10 minutes.

    I really want this to be good, but it needs a critical editor to go through it with a fine toothed comb. Honestly, they should crib Google Sheets, since it’s got a better interface than Excel now.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Ima be honest, I use it like all the time and I've never had a problem with it. Especially to the degree that you're saying you had in just 10 min.

    If youre fluent with Office tools then you should be able to use it.

    The only single thing I noticed explicitly that bugged me was it not opening template files as a new file so if I saved it would save over the template.

    You can argue that the math editor kind of sucks, which fair, if I was doing a discrete mathematics paper I'd be doing it in LaTeX which has like decades of modules and academia behind it

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  • [–] 152 points 4 weeks ago (8 children)

    that doesn't work

    You see, they took the efforts to replicate Microsoft excel experience.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

    Excel is the 7th ring of hell

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  • [–] 16 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)
  • [–] 24 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    Satan just asked god to add new layers of hell.

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  • [–] 130 points 1 month ago (16 children)

    And Libreoffice is great. I got through grad school using it. I had to look up a lot of the button locations and formulas but not having Onedrive hork up everything made it all worth it.

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  • [–] 43 points 4 weeks ago (13 children)
  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (12 children)

    LaTeX, really? Its like evil markdown.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    Switched to Typst and love it. I’d say I use LibreOffice much less because of Typst.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    At least "back in my day" there was no alternative if you wanted to write a paper (or a thesis).

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    No. If you format aomething in latex it will look like you want. Word and even libre writer will just mess up formatting at the slightest inconvenience

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago

    .md files are agnostic and can be read by pretty much anything. I care for the content to be preserved, the “look” can be handled later. Considering sloppification,Data preservation and accessibility should be held to a premium at this point.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 child)

    Overall Libre Office works fantastic. My only gripes is inserting an image into a document is way worse than word still, but overall it's only a mild inconvenience.

    Word only gets worse each update, and libre just gets better each update

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  • [–] 8 points 4 weeks ago*

    I agree with the image thing, I'm taking courses that require a lot of screenshots to be put into documents and it's a bit annoying to do. Although, I get the feeling that it's difficult because the goal is to give you more control and consistent results, rather than to "be easy". I've had a ton of difficulty dealing with Microsoft office and images as well, but that is usually after the image is in there and I want to fine tune it. Also, I can grab an odt file from 15 years ago and it's laid out exactly the same as when I first made it, I can't open up a docx from two years ago without word messing up some part of the formatting.

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  • [–] 116 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    For anyone not already aware, there was a push in the early 2000s to require government documents to be in a standard format rather than giving a specific vendor (Microsoft) unfair advantage (official government endorsement). LibreOffice (OpenOffice at the time) used the standardized ODF format, which should've pushed many European governments to switch to an open source office suite. Instead, Microsoft bribed a bunch of people to push through their "OOXML" format as a standard, even though it was just a snapshot of Office's behavior, bugs and all.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100805232754/http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070827111019189

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_standardization

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  • [–] 19 points 4 weeks ago

    There is another twist to this in that the OOXML format didn't actually define the bugs in the format and MS Office itself didn't actually follow the officially defined specification they pushed through. This inevitably led to every product that tried to make use of the official spec (e.g. Open Office) failing to be compatible with MS Office. It took the open source devs many years to properly duplicate the buggy mess that is the real MS Office formats.

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  • [–] 100 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    "... an AI slop version of Microsoft Office that doesn't fucking work" also known as Microsoft Office 365

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  • [–] 72 points 4 weeks ago

    I disagree, their efforts don't go unnoticed. Their recent no-AI claims prompted me to donate.

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  • [–] 56 points 4 weeks ago

    I don't like LibreOffice but any actual Open Source dev deserves infinite more respect than those prompstitutes.

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  • [–] 55 points 4 weeks ago (8 children)

    a couple of months ago i asked about this one of local Forbes editors and they explained this phenomenon as "because it is expected to code by hand but managing to vibe anything is amazing". i decided not to continue this conversation because that's fucking stupid

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  • [–] 34 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    “because it is expected to code by hand but managing to vibe anything is amazing”.

    I don't think it's wise to stake the future of computing on "It's not that the bear dances well, it's that the bear dances at all."

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  • [–] 15 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

    It's not really stupid. Things that are unusual are more noticeable, and garner more comment. We've grown used to devs tirelessly doing what they do, to the point most people don't think about where their software comes from, but a machine sort of doing it (poorly, so very poorly) is novel, so people talk about it.

    Currently, software mostly working as it should is the norm, so people don't talk about it much. When the wave of slopcoded disasters starts to grow, people will talk about it, because software is suddenly not working as it should.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    and yet no one is celebrating a piece of software well done

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  • [–] 47 points 4 weeks ago

    To be fair, neither does the real MS office

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  • [–] 37 points 4 weeks ago

    Long live Libre devs!! Been with yall for over a decade

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  • [–] 34 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    Wow, it managed to perfectly replicate Microsoft office?

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  • [–] 32 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't think the kind of person who contributes to FOSS projects get into it for the fame and attention.

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  • [–] 62 points 4 weeks ago

    LibreOffice - the only office suite that handles tables correct, even when multiple users change the document 🥳

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  • [–] 27 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    It feels disengenuous to say people vibe code things.

    I know it's correct English, I just think it's kind of a bullshit statement.

    When dumbasses talk to AI's and the AI's do things for them, it's wild to think the credit goes to the dumbasses.

    This is like your boss saying he did all your dev work and calling it "boss coding".

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  • [–] 77 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Had the same reaction with the Photoshop ai clone when se already have projects like gimp

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  • [–] 9 points 4 weeks ago

    Exactly. I also think that the problem was never just implementing stuff, the problem is to support the written code. Lately I stumbled upon a phrase "free as in a free puppy" I think those AI clones are exactly this. You will need to support it with AI, because no one else will be able or will be willing for enough time to do anything there. There is no understanding gained from this and if this bubble ever bursts or at least deflate a bit and prices for a token will get real it will no longer be maintainable.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

    People both here and on Reddit keep complaining about the ‘bad UI’ of GIMP compared to Photoshop. Which UI is laid out the same way as in Photoshop.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

    which is false, but more importantly the tools are entirely different. you can't do the same thing, you have to find the "gimp way" of achieving the same result

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  • [–] 4 points 4 weeks ago

    I agree to an extent - a few tools are indeed different, but the majority (including the core ones that 95% of people use) work almost exactly the same. Levels, curves, crop, clone stamp, sharpening, move etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

    which is false

    “Trust me bro, it's completely different.”

    Actual apps: tools on the left, layers on the right, the pic in the middle. The important menus are in the same places. Apparently Photoshop users lack pattern recognition.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

    True, however iirc the tools panel layout can be adjusted in standard GIMP — maybe not to the width of one icon, and by default the panel is also used for the tools options. Afaiu there was more sense in Photogimp when GIMP had floating windows, those really were dark times.

    My main issue with GIMP is that I can never memorize the location of the buttons for less-frequently-used tools, and the icons are not too recognizable. But that can be fixed with an icon theme, and perhaps with reordering the buttons if that's indeed possible.

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