You know how we tell the story about brutally murdering the Son of God? We want to put that on display, all the time, in His House, so He never ever forgets.
God is love!
You know how we tell the story about brutally murdering the Son of God? We want to put that on display, all the time, in His House, so He never ever forgets.
God is love!
Catholicism lore and practices are actually pretty metal if you think about it.
Carry a figure of the dying tortured son of god in a little chain on your neck. Nailed to a cross, speared through the chest, and with a fucking spine crown.
Spikes and a skull tattoos have NOTHING on Catholic paraphernalia.
Then literally eat his flesh and blood in a ritual to commemorate his death.
literally
Literally tho?
According to Catholics, yes.
This is Known. Goth fashion is basically a very involved parody of what Catholic aristocrats used to wear (this is why you get all the “sexy nun” stuff too)
White Jesus from the middle east
Literally the second commandment:
2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Wow what a good entity that is totally deserving of my worship.
Nothing says divinity better than petty human emotions like jealousy, and open threats to my unborn children and grandchildren.
The God of the Bible is literally a Monster.
That's actually pretty much in-line with how a lot of gods were portrayed back then. Have you read any Greek mythology? The gods were assholes there, too.
Yeah, there isn't much originality in Christianity. Besides the point, really.
How many billions of people in 2026 are Hellenistic? Like actually, earnestly, believe in Greek mythology?
What percent of politicians in the US worship Greek gods and use their teachings to inform policy?
Also jealousy is illegal according to the the Christian Constitution.
My dad used to beat this fact down my throat when I was a kid. No visual depictions of God/Jesus allowed. I wasn't allowed to watch The Passion or even Veggietales. But Prince of Egypt was okay.
Veggietales? I didn't grow up watching it but I thought I read somewhere that the creators actively didn't want to depict God/Jesus in that? Maybe it's just because Veggietales is part of the "love each other" version of Christianity and that's bad and woke.
"You shall not make for yourself..."
That means it's ok to just buy it, or you can make them and sell them. So long as you don't make one and keep it for yourself.
No symbols allowed or no idols allowed?
I mean any likeness of anything anywhere by the looks of it. So I guess that would include both?
any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.
So making fish statues are ok, but don't worship a fish statue as an idol. I don't see an issue with making a likeness to something as long as you're not worshipping it
Apologies, I misunderstood your question. I do wonder if you've seen how Catholics treat such depictions. I'd say they worship it or at least use it as an idol.
No, it clearly says: "You shall not make...", and then adds the reason at the end. It seems God doesn't even want you making it for any reason, because you might use it to worship. Banning images eliminates the temptation.
I'm not sure that's the interpretation that Catholics go with, and I don't think they idolize the statues they make. Either way the qualifier, as I'm reading it, is that they make the thing to worship the thing.
We're dealing with at least two intervening languages and generations of oral history here. Nitpicking semantics isn't terribly useful.
One way you can think of idolatry is by analogy to the concept of map and territory. The map is not the territory, and that can be far more of a rabbit hole than it sounds at first glance. For instance, you do not experience reality directly, full stop. Your entire experience of life is actually a living map of life generated by reality's interactions with your senses which are then filtered and interpreted by the rest of your bodily and cognitive systems.
And so it is for those who believe in and cultivate a relationship with their deities - a direct experience that will always be impossible to fully achieve, and is nevertheless expected they spend their lives chasing.
True, but also the commandments aren't actually numbered. IIRC, there are 13 "Shalls" and "Shall nots". So Catholics lump that section in with the first (no other gods, etc.) while the Protestants make room by joining "don't covet wife/property". There's arguments to support both sides when looking at the historical context but on that specific issue I'd lean toward the Catholic interpretation making more sense considering god is telling people to make statues shortly after (Exodus 25:18). Either way it's silly to be arguing over rules that bronze age people invented.
Anybody that's read the Bible knows Jesus was a White man from New Jersey.
The Christian bible says exactly the same thing, Christians just ignore it.
Thy shall not make graven images
I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons we have Protestants.
I could be wrong but I think one of the dividing issues between Orthodox Christians and Catholic is the depictions of religious figures. The Orthodox is more strict about it.
And then there's korean Jesus.
Jesus returns, looks around at crosses everywhere.
"Fuck me. I'm glad I didn't die accidentally drowning in manure!"
Idolatrous iconography is cute, but the real elephant in the room with Abrahamics these days is bibliolatry. Hate to make a Potter reference, but so many of these people think their God is Tom Riddle.
It takes a finger to point at the moon, so look at the moon, not the finger.
Can't sell as much merchandise without a face to go along with the name.
WWJD? SELL SELL SELL!!!!
Religion is given far too much respect in the world when it needs to be treated as a mental disorder.
@MrNobody This! Yes! Religious "beliefs" fill the mind with confused, illogical thoughts not tethered to the world as it is. This fuzzy thinking is not benign.
What is "the world as it is"? Can you give me an example of a "confused, illogical thought"?
‘The world was created in 7 days.’
‘The world is 6,000 years old. Any evidence to the contrary is manufactured by Satan to lead us astray.’
‘All of humanity was started from two people.’
I could go on but those three are fun to start with.
I'm actually okay with some Gaia religion right now that makes it fundamental to protect the planet and "remove" anyone trying to mess with that, like building data centers.
You don’t need a religion to be an environmentalist.
Oftentimes religious beliefs can change someone's worldviews, including but not limited to, environmental awareness. And I bring my own anecdotal example: since I became a syncretic Luciferian then a sudden Lilithian, I became quite eco-centric, as I got to understand Homo sapiens as just one among countless species instead of some "god's exclusive toy" on this Pale Blue Dot. I also started to personally understand LGBTQIA+ values because, thanks to Lilith, I began discovering a part of me I wasn't aware of, my queer me I've since became quite fond of (e.g. polishing my nails and letting them grow as a cisman-presenting person). Those things would be unlikely to happen if I stayed on christianity (yes, I was christian in the far past and I deeply hate having been one) due to christian brainwashing that makes christians to "fear disobeying god" (now I want "god" to go pound sand). There are religions and religions, faiths and faiths. You won't get a coven of Wiccans knocking at your door at Monday (Moon day) 3AM "do you have 5 minutes to hear about our Mother Hekate?", you won't hear Luciferians screaming "Agios Lucifer, He's coming back to reign" inside a bus/subway while you're commuting, you won't see a Thelemite lawmaker trying to shove Liber AL Vel Legis inside kindergarten and schools, you won't see Goetians bringing a Solomon's Magick Circle inside a hospital room to call upon Stolas to cure the patients with his herbal knowledge... Yet atheists tend to put all religious beliefs into the same box as abrahamic religions which have persecuted both you atheists and us pagans, instead of trying to make some rational distinction between different faiths...!memes@lemmy.world
Please don't... if it is a religion, it involve irrational beliefs that will be armful at some point. To protect the planet we need to know what is good for it, and be abble to find out that some of our knowledges/beliefs are wrong. To find out we were wrong, we need to be rational ; and that require to reject faith.
So, what about personal philosophy? Do you count "Humanism", or "Earthseed" from Parable of the Sower as religions? No magical thinking, but heavily based in ideas of morality which have no objective truth. There is no definition of "Good" that can ever be objective. You need a philosophical basis, like utilitarianism, for example, to work off of.
There are plenty of people (including many adherents, I think) who'd identify those as religions, but I struggle to comprehend how your claim would apply to them.
A philosophy isn't a religion. You need to think philosophy by yourself, and not just one school of philosophy, since each of them have a point of view that could help you. I also think each of this school can be monstruous and misleading if you follow blindly its principles ; but each may help you to think each situation by yourself more efficiently.
Let's take utilitarianism, maximizing the good. In many situations it applies smoothly. For the trolley track problem an utilitarian easily sacrify the one lonely to save the 5. Yet if you change the problem as: you are in an hospital and 5 patients need a different organ for transplantation ; an healthy universal donor kid is in a room waiting for a minor broken leg ; do you kill the kid to save the 5? Utilitarian principles should still say yes, but you may feel that in that case applying them would be wrong.
Those who would have faith in the utilitarianism, and apply it as a religion, may not see the problem. Of course, some may have both faith and some doubts. But I think they would think better if they think by themselves, using different philosophical principles, and without an authority to share the responsability of their decisions.
And that's how the Church of Infinite Greed keeps winning no matter how rational you are. Their irrationality knows no counter.
I don't think I understand. Do you mean we need a religion to counter capitalism?
Religions are always serving the ones in power, some times they may set new rulers, but then they serve the new rulers...
And no rulers will be good if it is with a protection that pass all to them and protect them.
So I think rationality and education are more likely to be the solution than any religion (even in those not existing yet).
Do you mean we need a religion to counter capitalism?
That fell into the same trap you described. They had faith that the vanguard state would wither.
Who do you mean by they? And can you develop?
If they follow principles without critical thinking, then yes they have a faith and transform their movement into a religion. Yet Lenin's principles are to call for critics, to evaluate situations rationally and to reject dogmatism. So following this principles dogmatically is a bit ironic...
Yet I haven't met anyone claiming being a vanguard yet, or they haven't told me much about their view on Lenin's thoughts.
Why is it a mental disorder? Can I have a source?
Shared Psychotic Disorder is where a group of people share a delusion. This delusion can almost "spread," especially in the case of people who are close to each other. Its very similar to other shared delusions, like supernatural beliefs.
I guess lemmy is also becoming reddit now, shamed for asking a simple question
The iconoclasts were on the same page
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