Wasn't thinking that, I just think Europeons is the far superior pun. Speaking as a Europeon, of course.

Absolute value, including of a negative number, is always positive.

What? Teams updates its UI so often it feels like with every update they move buttons around just to fuck with the user. Even outlook has been updated to a somehow even shittier UI. If I had a choice I'd choose the UI from the 1000000 times slower era because at least it was functional.

that's not even true. they are trying to follow the latest tech giant design trends making everything with huge gaps, rounded corners and huge memory usage, and the ui lagging more than anything 20 years ago

As a senior software person, I can tell you that that is absolutely not the problem.

It's never refactoring, pushing useless crap and vibe coding. On the top of my head.

Tbf, the MS Team's search hasn't failed me yet. Unlike outlook which wouldn't find an email when searching for the exact subject line, even while I have the email open in another window just to be sure I'm not hallucinating how bad the search is.

Yeah, there's that angle also. Like how you can start phoning it in when you have a shitty manager that kills your passion. I have a feeling that that is part of the overall corporate culture at MS rather than just the case for people unlucky with which manager they ended up with.

Assuming you meant that "focus" as a pun that refers to their ability to focus on their work to the point of doing it well.

If you meant that it might have been some rogue developer that snuck in that change instead of a rogue manager, yeah, that's also possible.

We are and I'm hating every minute of it.

My friends all go on and on about how much element sucks and yet I have zero problems with it, it’s confounding to me

Lol element got horrendous ux. It almost made me go to alternatives like revolt/stoat.

Luckily I found sable and it's pretty great

It's hard to get people to move from what they know and use to something else. If you moved them to Google, they'd say it's shit. Same for Zoom. They all do some stuff better than others.

Element is perfectly servicable. They're using Element Pro which is billing itself as built for government. The first problem is they called it pro, which sets expectations higher than they should be. It's not going to make them go WOW this is so much better at first glance.

Trying to onboard a gigantic number of people is going to be difficult for a system that doesn't already have a gigantic number of people on it. I can only imagine how rough the system is at the moment, but it'll work out.

Ehhhh... There's so many issues with it. It is equivalent to if Microsoft Teams was a Matrix application. The problem is that the UI is so clunky, buggy, and in general not robust enough compared to other matrix applications. Other matrix applications just don't have things implemented and also feel the need to copy Element's terrible designs.

I'm able to use it also, perhaps due to 40 years of computing experience, but .... for people used to something like Slack, probably not that great.

I keep wishing that somebody would replace Matrix with something we don't have to be so embarrased about.

what security dialogs? and what race conditions? do you know what that means, or are you just throwing around words?

if you mean the "verify your new device" dialog, yeah, it has a problem. it won't appear most of the time on clients that were not open when you sent the verification request from the new device. I don't know why, and this is not comfortable, but then I can start verification from a device I already have, and it will work. or I can also just fill in the password from my password manager, which you surely have too.

but I haven't seen other problems with it recently.

XMPP at least functions reliably, if you ignore all of the protocol extensions and use it like IRC with images of course.

which does not even have a bolted on security that way.

Though the main and only good Android client got archived.

calling element classic good is a bit of a stretch. it was very slow.

Yeah but XMPP sounds so techy you know... /s

I bet that if someone scraped together the bare minimum and found a catchy name it'd be the winner easily.

Et-tu-Brutus would slay IMO.

Yeah I gave up on Element/Matrix too, for other reasons.

First of all the clients don't work for shit and every update breaks something IME, got tired of that. Also for all of my normie friends and family it was "too hard" to use, I disagree, but regardless what good is a chat app if I have nobody to use it with? Further, the one friend I did convince to join also joined the public Ras Pi room, and some dickhead posted CP in it, he saw, and then I had to explain "no, this isn't a 'pedo app,' that is spam and they get banned," and I'm gonna be real I don't want to have to do that again and I can't in good faith recommend my mother use a goddamn app that very possibly could spam her with CP.

So, I moved to Delta Chat. Fixes all those problems, no complaints. Easy to use, easy onboarding, no discoverability, just chats.

Tox did their own insecure crypto and got roasted by the Wireguard dev, now they are apparently rewriting it.

I agree that Matrix is complex but personally never had issues with key verification. Just try to restart it, maybe on the other device?

element is much lighter weight, my god wgat fuck are you even dreaming up about, discord is fucking unresponsive and horrible to use, I do agree that the device verificstion still barely works sometimes, and you can also just use a different a client, as far as web clients go cinny is really good honestly, cinny is fast and responsive it even feels almost native, which compared to garbagecord is a night and day difference in usability beyond DOING ALL OF THIS WHILE USING LESS RESOURCES, for android Schildichat Next is my choice