KOreader has been a godsend on my daughter's kindle. Even has screen time features
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by removing access to digital content and discontinuing software support.
I really hope this gets somewhere, because then it sets the precedent to slow down the shitty cycle of modern connected technology. Sue phone manufacturers for dropping support after X years. Sue Google and Apple for relentlessly upping their OS version, dropping old API support, restricting old apps and making independent installs difficult. Sue ISPs for shutting down 2G, 3G, (and now 4G?) and making a pile of e-waste in an instant.
Nothing will change. I bought myself a brand new iPad mini for university back in 2013 and used it like twice for notes and stuff but ended up getting annoyed and just going back to pen and paper.
Fast forward about 5 years and I had barely used the thing and kept it clean as a whistle and stored. I turn it on, update it all and its just a fucking brick. Can't load shit, can't browse, can use apps without freezing, crashing, etc. Its just a thing, expensive POS brick.
Nothing will change because of the experience you had?
Because companies and people are greedy and divided. Look at you here adding a useless comment that doesn't help solve the issue.
The original comment is literally about what precedents would open if this class action is won and how things can change based on it.
Things CAN change. It's not easy but possible, but they will definitely not change if we all have your attitude here.
Phones just recently got better about this. They're all 7+ years now, which is enough specifically for phones. Maybe not for other things.
Not all global manufacturers do that yet, and not for all models. It's not a victory yet, we need to pressure them for it to mecome a norm and to be honored without playing any tricks on us.
Also, we were so conditioned for obsolescence, that the idea of a phone lasting more than 7 years looks like absurd for a lot of people, but in reality, it's very plausible, just like a laptop can last like 15 years, or even more. We can do even better!
It feels like we're losing ground. Why does 8GB of RAM feel totally insufficient to browse the same websites I used 12 years ago with 4? I'm so happy I maxed out my motherboard's RAM (32) when I built a PC in 2021.
That's a fair point. It might not be the device I carry 24/7, but it sure would be nice to use as a display panel in my house.
I should look for alternative software that will let me just display a webpage.
It's not even necessarily the end of support and updates for old products. If I have a Black and Decker drill from 1920, it's not reasonable to expect them to still service it.
But what is unreasonable is allowing Black and Decker to break my drill. And that's what Amazon is doing when they restrict access to content that was previously viewable on the older models.
the kind in kindle was a lie
But the kindle in the Kindle was the truth.
PROTIP:
Ebooks are trivially easy to find online, or you can check them out from your local library.
There's a free and open source program called Calibre that can manage your ebook library, change file formats, edit visual formatting, and even remove proprietary DRM.
Don't let Amazon being a bad company prevent you from using your old Kindle.
I hope the outcome is they unbrick it, not just do a payout. Reason being I own one of the recently-bricked models and it sucks donkey balls that I can't download books I already paid for. :(
you'll get the depreciated value for your device minus lawyers fees.
So look foward to getting a check in the mail for $1.37
What firmware version is it on? Boot it away from any wifi and turn on airplane mode before checking.
You might be able to jailbreak it and make it permanently usable.
Can't you still transfer content to them? Just pirate everything you paid for and manually put it on there. I have a newer Kindle and I have never once connected it to their servers, just use Calibre.
I bought a Kindle last year. Hated the experience. Returned it and bought a Kobo instead. Love it and I've been reading a ton. I've also been sleeping better by reading on it at night until I get sleepy instead of looking at a traditional screen.
My friend bought a used Kindle paper, it worked perfectly for a month, even bought books for it. Then randomly bricked.
The same happened to me, but with a Kindle fire stick. I loved how nice it looked on my old led tv, even better in my more modern led monitor. The only device i could actually stream at 1080p without image downgrade. It didn't last 6 months, stuck in a bootloop and i have no idea on how to troubleshoot. Never again.
I have a Kindle Touch and IDGAF if it can connect to Amazon. I don't connect it to the internet because I'm afraid it'll update and break. Right now I've got it set to never sleep because the wake button doesn't work. But that little hack only works on old versions of the firmware.
The only service I wanna connect my kindle to is Calibre.
From what I know (never bought a kindle) it seems like the modding scene for older kindles is alive and well. I think a channel called damnitJeff does a breakdown of the firmwares and mods available. Worth a look if you've got a kindle that hasn't been turned on in awhile and you want to mod it so they can't brick it.
I really enjoy an e-ink display, but I've never owned a Kindle. Just doesn't make sense to me.
In any case, there is a good chance you can unlock/jailbreak an older kindle and make it usable again (arguably for the first time).
if you take mass transit, its a great way to pass the time
for me the biggest most amazing feature was the opendyslexia font being built into the system. Reading with dyslexia can become a difficult thing, especially if its Time Roman. But I found that I could read and comprehend effortlessly with that font. I read Candide, Don Quixote, Count of Monte Cristo... books that I would have never imagined that I could have read and wouldn't have been able to without that font and the kindle to make it accessible and always kept my page and only gave me a page at a time so I wouldnt get overwhelmed with the size of the book. DQ and CoMC are very long stories
Yeah, phones are fine for passing the time until your train goes into a tunnel. Then you’re just stuck with your own thoughts, trying to stave off the existential dread without anything to keep you distracted. One of the nicest parts about an ereader is that in an age where everything is always online, they still work when offline.
Well done. I'm still trying to make it through Don Quixote, so I get it. I was expecting a quick, fun read, but it is really more like trying to binge a soap opera. sure, it has very episodic chapters, but also a through-line and recurring characters that disappear and come back later, and it just keeps going.
Don't tell me how it ends, but just tell me if it's worth it... does it eventually build to something satisfying?
No it doesn't LoL but I think that's why it is what it is. I think you have to come to the conclusion that Don is a terrorist and if you don't see it yet, here's another chance!
lol thanks!
the revelation of understanding hit me so hard when I figured out that all those jackasses that walk around with their gun exposed or the dicks that bring their AR into a coffee shop.... they are Don Quixote in real life! And that is frightening!
JDVance is fucking Sancho Panza almost as a mirror... life imitating art
!ebookreaders@lemmy.zip has some good info too
I didn’t realize that the old Kindle Fires were part of this.
I have an ancient one that lived in the bathroom for when I wanted to keep reading whatever was on my Kindle in there, and it suddenly stopped working.
I’ve already replaced it with a tablet from Temu that will be running just the Kindle app, but I’m fantastically glad I never bothered to purchase another Kindle Fire. My next e-ink device will likely also not be a Kindle either since I haven’t bought a Kindle book since they removed 1984 from devices like a decade ago. 🙄
I have an old 2012 Nook that has literally never been connected to a network: I bought it to sideload epubs and pdfs onto, and that's all I ever did with it. I never got a Kindle because you can't sideload pdfs (or couldn't at the time) and I didn't like that Amazon was already sneakily retracting/editing purchased digital content.
It could use a new battery but it still works fine, and I bet these Kindles will too as I recall seeing guides out there about how to jailbreak/root them. If you can disconnect your Kindle from all network access and make it sideload (or non-Amazon-connected load) only, you'll still have a usable device, as well as all your local content. Fuck Amazon.
Mine is jailbroken, running KOReader. I've been logged out of my Amazon account for 2 years now.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing this update "broke" was the ability to access the store, right? Sounds like an improvement to me. It's interesting that everyone is cheering this on after gleefully shitting on Sony for forcing use of their digital library.
With both stories, the real issue is the illusion of digital ownership with drm'd media. Wasteful plastic discs don't solve that problem, and neither does perpetual access to a proprietary copy. These people were given a chance at freedom, but instead are suing to be allowed to keep not owning their media.
On the one hand... Of course all of that is true, but it is the same for most computing devices on the market. Computing hardware has never been supported forever, believing it would be is ridiculous.
On the other hand, fuck Amazon.
it's about Amazon not having disclosed this artificial end of life at the time of the purchase
Critically, the case claims that Amazon did not disclose to consumers at the time of purchase that the devices’ core functionality—that is, continued access to digital content on the Kindle Store—and users’ ability to update software could be reduced or eliminated for any reason at any time without a full refund of the purchase price.
Has any other device? What’s the precedence for doing this over the norm?
They’re making an arbitrary claim, it’s really common for programs to use more recourses as they are updated.
Has any other device? What’s the precedence for doing this over the norm?
Of course... Phone manufacturers for example, include a minimum date they commit to make security and android updates. It is so common actually that it has become one of the benchmarks to compare when buying a new phone
That doesn't sound any different than most similar electronic devices. No one ever advertises that the online services will be available forever, I doubt Amazon advertised they would work or be supported forever.
For a real world example that's nearly identical... any Internet connected video game console that are now End of Life? The Nintendo eShop is no longer available on the 3DS and Wii U for instance.
As far as I can see, these Kindles still work with whatever they had loaded on them at the time, they just can't connect and download new files from Amazon's services. They still let you side load files directly on the devices. And you can always jailbreak it.
None of those options are any different than what is available on the 3DS and Wii U now.
core functionality—that is, continued access to digital content on the Kindle Store—
I would argue, and Amazon almost certainly will as well, that the core functionality is viewing books. Which they can still do just fine.
That doesn’t sound any different than most similar electronic devices.
Yes it does... Phones for example, come out with a known date for end of updates/support
Now putting all this aside, why on earth would any of you be simping for Amazon here is beyond me. Literally, if they do not commit to some reasonable support time, they could pull the plug on ANY device at ANY time for ANY reason
For example, if Amazon decides to sell you a very expensive Amazon TV, you buy it and after 6 months Amazon pulls the plug on it because sales were not as good as they expected, you would be left with a brick... and you are here defending this practice
If it was six months, that would be a very different situation. But the devices being discontinued are from 2012 and earlier, meaning they got at least 14 years of support. If 14 is not enough, what do you think a reasonable minimum should be?
If it was six months, that would be a very different situation.
I agree... but as it stands today, Amazon could have done this with a 6 months old device that simply did not sell as they wanted.
But the devices being discontinued are from 2012 and earlier, meaning they got at least 14 years of support.
It's not "support", Amazon locks their devices to their sources, once they cut them off the devices are basically useless for the majority of users who are not tech savvy enough
If 14 is not enough, what do you think a reasonable minimum should be?
Again, the law has to define what's "reasonable" (and that is already a very shitty way of defining law but that's how the US does it).
Is it reasonable for Nintendo to say "people did not expect tariff refunds therefore we don't have to give them while WE did collect them"? well, if there is no case law that argues one way or the other, anything can be argued as "reasonable"
This lawsuit would help establish what is legally reasonable and if it does not take place, reasonable is whatever Amazon wants... and you seem to prefer that scenario?
They're not 'useless' though, they continue to work offline, and that kind of hyperbole makes it hard to take this seriously.
I really am asking here, if 14 years isn't enough, what minimum would be? I'm asking what you think is reasonable.
They’re not ‘useless’ though, they continue to work offline, and that kind of hyperbole makes it hard to take this seriously.
Yes, my TV also works offline... I cannot load any channels or watch anything new but it still works
I really am asking here, if 14 years isn’t enough, what minimum would be? I’m asking what you think is reasonable.
I already explained this... actually I already explained the other part as well...
There is an old saying that translates to something like "the worst kind of blindness is found in those who just do not want to see"
here it is again:
Again, the law has to define what’s “reasonable” (and that is already a very shitty way of defining law but that’s how the US does it).
Is it reasonable for Nintendo to say “people did not expect tariff refunds therefore we don’t have to give them while WE did collect them”? well, if there is no case law that argues one way or the other, anything can be argued as “reasonable”
This lawsuit would help establish what is legally reasonable and if it does not take place, reasonable is whatever Amazon wants… and you seem to prefer that scenario?
That did not answer my question.
then I can't help you
It's a pretty simple question, I dunno why you couldn't give a straight answer. I think it's going to be hard to win this kind of battle if you can't give a direct answer.
The issue is that my personal opinion does not matter here; the whole point of the lawsuit is to find what is "reasonable" as per the law.
Now, if you are just looking to chat. Here it goes:
For a company with the resources of Amazon, I'd say it's reasonable that they never cut off their own products as long as they continue in the branch of business these products are intended to serve. In this case, if amazon will continue selling and distributing digital eBooks, then they should continue supporting their old hardware with the service.
If for a technical reason this cannot be accomplished; for example, if the new standard of eBooks is incompatible with the old hardware AND an update is not technically feasible (TECHNICALLY feasible, not "it cost me money"); then Amazon should jailbreak the old devices, for free, so the customers that bought it could more easily find alternatives
PS: please note that a personal option, or making it "simple" or "direct", are artificially imposed barriers to "win" here imposed by you. My point continues to be that it is reasonable for this lawsuit to take place precisely so that a definition of "reasonable" can be recorded in case law
If you want to set a precedent, you have to first pick a battle you can actually win. Your inability to answer the question comes across as a tacit admission that 14 years isn't unreasonable, in which case I don't see this fight as winnable.
If you want to set a precedent, you have to first pick a battle you can actually win
And who decides that, you?
Your inability to answer the question
I just answered your question in detail... and my hesitation does not come from anything you said, it comes from the suspicion, now confirmed, you were just going to attack my personal position to justify yours.
It seems you still do not understand how the legal system works
I don't think that trying to argue that 14 years isn't enough is a winnable battle. I don't think expecting support to be forever and ever to be a precedent that will ever be set.
I don’t think that trying to argue that 14 years isn’t enough is a winnable battle
THAT IS NOT WHAT IS BEING CLAIMED! Fuck man, if you want to have a conversation here the least you can do is read the fucking article
Now putting all this aside, why on earth would any of you be simping for Amazon here is beyond me.
Pointing out how a lawsuit is fundamentally flawed isn't simping or defending the corporation. It's this kind of assumption that makes real online discourse impossible.
For example, if Amazon decides to sell you a very expensive Amazon TV, you buy it and after 6 months Amazon pulls the plug on it because sales were not as good as they expected, you would be left with a brick...
There are thousands of models of smart TVs that no longer receive updates, and guess what... They still work as TVs. Just like these Kindles still work as ereaders even without a working store. The store was not the only way to get books on them, and existing books are still there. They aren't useless devices. Something I've pointed out numerous times but keeps getting ignored because that's an inconvenient fact if you want to claim they "no longer work".
Should a consumer reasonably expect any product to be supported forever and ever and ever just because they didn't say they won't?
It's not like the device is actually bricked, it continues to work offline. I think it severely hurts this lawsuit's credibility when they hyperbolize it to the point of being factually incorrect.
It's just not being maintained to preserve forwards-compatibility, and that's kind of inevitable. Nothing can truly last forever, forever is impossible. And if we can accept that there's no such thing as forever, then it's just a question of when to draw the line, when it's finally okay to eventually drop support. And the question of when could be a valid question to ask, but it doesn't sound like that's the question this lawsuit is asking, it sounds like they just expect infinity.
The fundamental difference is that obsolete computing hardware used to be difficult for owners and third parties to toy with only due to its inherent complexity, not from malicious intent. This difficulty could be overcome, both in theory and in practice, and with time and effort and a sufficiently persistent community (often reflecting the scale of adoption of the device in question) the difficult parts quite frequently would get overcome eventually.
Especially since the DMCA, there's been a huge increase in the efforts of companies to "secure" their products against "hacking" and tampering using sophisticated, often uncrackable encryption keys, reliance on remote always-online services which they provide for free (until they don't, because it's not like they thought about that during the product design and who could possibly expect them to support their products forever?!), and time-locked and sometimes even physically self-destructing components. These kind of designs now completely saturate the marketplace, and it's also become illegal to even try to unlock them, thanks to the provisions of the DMCA and the lack of any workable exemption for right-to-repair or abandoned products no longer commercially viable.
Nobody expects a company to have to support their product forever. Of course that's unreasonable. But it is reasonable to expect them not to design things that intentionally turn into e-waste the moment they stop supporting them. It is entirely reasonable to expect them to design an end-of-commercial-life strategy for the products they develop and sell. This is why copyrights that are allowed to expire become public domain instead of having all the books with expired copyrights burned. Because we, as a civilization, chose to have that happen, and we made it part of the copyright laws. Why do we allow electronics to remain proprietary and encrypted when they are no longer profitable? Why not require them to be opened to the public domain too? Would this not be in society's best interests? It would not be in the interest of the companies interested in planned obsolescence, that's for sure, but maybe it's time to stop letting them decide. They have not been kind to us. Stop being kind to them.
But it is reasonable to expect them not to design things that intentionally turn into e-waste the moment they stop supporting them.
The Kindles still work. They still power on. They still have the books that were downloaded. You can still load new books manually.
They are not e-waste by any definition of the word. You just no longer have access to the Amazon store.
They have not been kind to us. Stop being kind to them.
I'm not being kind to them, I'm pointing out that the only thing that happened was owners lost access to an online store. Everything else about the device still works.
The lawsuit is straight up wrong on nearly every claim they make about the devices no longer working. They work just like they did before, just with no built-in store. It's an ereader, and it still functions as an ereader.
I don't have one, so I don't know if the claims are true or not, it seems like you do and I'll have to take your word for it. My comment is addressing the philosophy of how these devices are typically designed, I'm not in a position to argue about the merits of this specific instance.
This is the most correct take here in my opinion. Planned obsolescence is indeed bullshit. At a bare minimum the devices need to be able to support third party services and software if the primary source is going to be remotely or artificially disabled. Someone who purchases a device OWNS it, and should therefore be able to use it as they see fit.
They do. You can still load books onto them manually from a PC, you just can't access the store from the device itself.
Planned obsolescence does suck, I'm with you on that. But these devices were supported for 14 years, and they do still remain usable even past this expiration date. If the goal is to fight against planned obsolescence, this just seems like the worst possible battle to pick for that fight.
As much as I hate amazon - those devices are really really old. I own two of those and both happily download from my calibre library now.
it's about Amazon not having disclosed this artificial end of life at the time of the purchase
Critically, the case claims that Amazon did not disclose to consumers at the time of purchase that the devices’ core functionality—that is, continued access to digital content on the Kindle Store—and users’ ability to update software could be reduced or eliminated for any reason at any time without a full refund of the purchase price.
That depends on whether you consider store access "core functionality". The devices still work, your existing purchases on the device are still there, and you can still load book onto them manually. And that doesn't even get into jail breaking and alternate store options.
It's an ereader, it still functions as an ereader, and you can still add new books, just not through the Amazon store. Sure seems like the "core functionality" is intact.
As I said - I have 2 affected devices
I mean I can’t play my windows 98 games anymore, do people actually expect this stuff to be continued to be supported forever? That’s unrealistic.
Support? No. Work? Yes.
A tool you make and sell for a purpose has to complete that purpose until it is no longer physically able, with or without your presence.
Software can be replaced as long as the hardware works. But making the tool unusable just so people would buy your other shit is scummy.
It does work, you just can’t use the store from what the article said, the store likely uses more resources than the device has now.
So how many resources would you waste just explaining that to people everytime they call in and say the store is slow or not working.
I can’t play my windows 98 games anymore
That… sounds like a skill issue. And also isn't relevant?
it's about Amazon not having disclosed this artificial end of life at the time of the purchase
Critically, the case claims that Amazon did not disclose to consumers at the time of purchase that the devices’ core functionality—that is, continued access to digital content on the Kindle Store—and users’ ability to update software could be reduced or eliminated for any reason at any time without a full refund of the purchase price.
Did windows? Does any other electronic device?
This is how electronics work, as newer programs and updates use more resources, older devices can’t keep up. So what, just not bring in new features so older devices can continue to work? Hold everything else up?
Why is Amazon being held to arbitrary and different standards? It’s common knowledge that’s how stuff operates since the 90s….
Did windows?
Actually yes, you can see how long MS plans to support any of their releases
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/
They have a full portal

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