I keep hearing people say that the far-left is significantly less organised, more fragmented than the far-right. Why is that? (And to be clear: I’m asking about the far-left, not just the left in general (though they may be linked)

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[–] 138 points 1 month ago (22 children)

The far right only have to organise around a handful of simplistic ideas. They talk in tabloid headlines. Smear shit and hope the millionaire fash send money your way. It’s as easy as flipping hamburgers.

The left have to deal with the complexities of reality. They need to talk with stakeholders and learn from specialists in a given subject at a given time. They are limited by language that can express the complexity of our societies and what makes them run well.

I’m not saying that’s the full explanation, but it’s inherently harder to organise something more complex and creative. It’s easier to organise a dirty protest.

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  • [–] 63 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The far right is funded by deep pockets and is not attacked by the establishment Republicans.

    If the Democratic Party establishment would see the left as an asset rather than a threat then things might change.

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  • [–] 46 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Well, that’s the thing about the Democratic Party. They actually aren’t left of center. They are performatively left on a few social issues when it’s convenient.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (13 children)

    I agree with this, and it's why movements like OWS and BLM have more or less done nothing. Those are complex concepts with lists of things that need to be done. The right has "Lower taxes" and "Let us be racist". The left though has nuanced concepts and new things that people have never heard of. People hear "Lower taxes" and know what that means. Universal healthcare is new and complex, and so the right reduces it to something they understand, "higher taxes" and other fearmongering. Meanwhile we're trying to show amortization rates of providing care to everyone and the right has simple phrases.

    Rinse and repeat for everything. We tried "Defund police" but the right only heard "No more police" because there is a lot of nuance to "defund police", like demilitarizing and focusing on sending in people who can actually help. "Climate change" is a complex nuanced subject that takes a long time to understand, but the right reduces it to "They want to take away your truck".

    Gay marriage I think worked because it was a very simple message, allow gays to marry. They tried to reduce it however they could but in that case their arguments were the harder ones to follow. I think we need to think about how we describe things, and try to avoid from the beginning needing to explain concept subjects to (I'm sorry but) simple people. Universal healthcare should simply mean "We run a government level insurance program, like all of the other countries, so no one gets denied coverage". Or something like that.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    "No more police" is a pretty simple idea that seems to have slipped by you so idk

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    "No more police" is an idealistic concept that would never make it out of committee and is routinely used by the right to "prove" to themselves that we can't be taken seriously. "Demilitarized police" instead is a concept that could be actually implemented, and could get support from both the people and politicians and could actually be implemented.

    If you seriously believe that we could pivot next year to "no more police" then you're deluding yourself, there's no politician in this entire country who would stake their career on that. Nice to dream, but no way in reality it would ever happen, and using it only fuels the right.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    I'm not looking for a politician to take anything seriously. I am looking for we the people to remake this godforsaken place, and that means implementing our goals directly, which includes dismantling every police station and sheriff's office.

    Seriously the police are kidnapping people at random and you still don't get that the system is broken?

    I'm not so unreasonable to assume that no one who is currently wearing a badge and gun can rehabilitate themselves into productive members of society, but the systems that they work as a part of need shut the fuck down.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    ICE is not the police, and I can't believe I have to state that.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago*

    ICE is a natural evolution of the way American police have operated for decades now. It's wild that people don't see that. They didn't just appear from nowhere.

    Are they worse than police? Arguably yes, but they didn't just appear spontaneously from nowhere. Our failure to reign in the police and force them to obey the law led directly to the behavior we now see from ICE. We've let the white supremacists run wild and refine their techniques for a long time now.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The fraternal order of police supports ICE.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    It depends on the place, many cities and states have rules that prevent local police from helping ICE. I'm not saying that police don't need reform because I think that's what the whole 'defund the police' movement is really about, but to say that all police support ICE is inaccurate - otherwise sanctuary cities simply wouldn't be allowed to exist. Now, there aren't nearly as many sanctuary cities as I'd like - and more states would do well to follow the example of states like Oregon, Colorado, Minnesota, etc.

    That's another topic entirely, though.

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  • As others mentioned, ICE are not police.

    On top of that again it's idealism vs realism. Yes idealism is what it could be, but the system isn't changing anytime soon. I'm sorry, but it's not. Unless the majority of people suddenly mobilize, but I've been waiting now 30 years and at multiple points thought maybe they finally would, but it's not happening. Once you realize that it's idealism, then you can move into realistic options.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I had a hysterical family member reading the DSA and saying "they want to abolish the police and prisons, that's crazy to just let all those people walk the streets."

    I attempted to clarify that the prison industrial complex is so corrupt and broken it needs to be completely replaced and their reply was, "well the website doesn't say that so what am I supposed to believe?"

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I was at a Moral Mondays protest in Raleigh NC a while back and someone with a bullhorn called out "What do we want?!"

    And the crowd yelled back, all at once:

    "Racial justice!"

    "Marriage equality!"

    "Immigration reform!"

    "Police reform!"

    "Impeach Trump!"

    "Close Guantanamo!"

    "Better pay for teachers!"

    ...and a bunch of other demands too many to understand in a crowd that large, and while I knew I was with the right people, I had a sinking feeling about our chances of achieving much of anything.

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    [–] 28 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Right-wing people embrace hierarchy. Left-wing people don't.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Is it really more disorganized? Ive seen and heard of far right groups tearing each other apart over minor differences of values or infidelity. Maybe its simply a matter of complexity of goals. The left is trying to build a new and fair world, all while preserving as much of humanity and the planet as possible. The far right on the other hand seems to concern itself almost entirely with destroying progress the left makes, they seem to not care at all about the what comes after or the harm that is caused by their changes. So they only need to agree on what needs to go, and don't need to agree on what comes next because they haven't thought about it and don't care who has to live in the squalor they leave behind.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    It doesn't help that the right infiltrates and murders left wing movements.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Wars

    I'm not a historian so I'm struggling to remember specific details. "People's History of the United States" by Zinn includes many examples that went like "People wanted to organize for something better" -> "Capitalists said no, and had the police beat up and arrest people"

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

    Apparently Gloria Steinem was funded by the CIA. Also, Jackson Pollock was a psy-op, more specifically, the supposed value of the dogshit he created.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    That's a dishonest oversimplification of Gloria Steinem's situation, and you're going to have to elaborate on Pollock. (But it sounds like you're already biased against him too far to be objective, dismissing his contributions to modern art)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    You sound like a bot. My opinions on Steinem and Pollock are based on recent revelations that they were both funded by the CIA. I couldn't care less about either one 5 years ago. The whole modern art movement was apparently a psy-op in order to discredit anyone farther (further?) left than Hillary Clinton.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    The "whole modern art movement"? I'm not disputing the CIA's history of nefarious dealings or infiltrating groups to put their thumb on the scale, but the scope of that claim exceeds even COINTELPRO.

    What they did was support a movement already in place because they felt it helped against Communism somehow. (And the USSR was doing pretty much the same thing the other direction) And it's not like they're signing a bunch of checks "CIA" and handing them out to artists and organizers, it was soft support through foundations and museums and stuff. It doesn't detract from their work. It kinda sounds like you half-watched one YouTube video.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    So you acknowledge CIA fuckery, but have to resort to ad hominem attacks and whataboutism just like Kirk, Shapiro and Peterson. You and assholes like you are exactly the reason Left-wing politics are so ineffectual, hence proving my point.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    The whole principle of right wing thought is strict vertical hierarchies. For their moral flaws, strict vertical hierarchies are a pretty efficient way to organize the average person. The whole principle of left wing thought is flattened, distributed hierarchies. For their moral virtues, decentralized flat hierarchies are pretty slow to organize. It's a lot simpler to fall in behind an authority figure than participate in never ending sub-sub-subcommittees.

    It's hard to unify around a course of action when your whole thing is incorporating diverse perspectives and rejecting centralization. I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do, it is, but it presents inherent challenges.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I think the far-left has more diversity in its political positions and its factions usually don't get along with each other simply because their projects are incompatible. That may cause a little bit of "disorganization" but I don't think that's bad per se. It could be seen as a sign of critical thinking.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    its factions usually don’t get along with each other simply because their projects are incompatible

    What do you mean by that? Can you give me an example?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    For example, marxist-leninists have a very different approach to the anti-capitalist fight compared to most anarchists. Another similar example would be platformists anarchists and communizers (communization theory): generally, both are communists; however, platformists stress the importance of a mass organization that would engage with dual power structures, while communizers don't.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Organization takes time and money. Two things the far left are generally not conducive to concentrating to the point where they can build effective political and economic campaigns.

    It will take moments of political and economic crisis to mobilize against this current. If and when it does, no one will be happy about it regardless of the direction chosen.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

    Far left has a lot of good ideas and how to go about them is debated, often loudly and messily.

    Far right has stupid people, which are happy to go confidently along.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell

    It's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves. - Franz Kafka

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Adding on:

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    From W. B. Yeats, The Second Coming

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago

    One reason is that people on the left are more inclined to disagree with each other, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, and accepted as part of the political process. You figure things out by voicing differing opinions and reaching some kind of middle ground. There's room for disagreement on the left.

    People on the right (fascists in America) are more likely to do what they are told by their "superiors" and fall in line. Differing opinions, or lifestyles, are not readily tolerated and you will be excommunicated if you push the accepted boundaries too much.

    You can say a lot of negative things about fascism, and you should, but fascists tend to have a lot of solidarity as long as they toe the line. That is, until the critical breaking point, which is usually everyone that isn't a fascist realizing they actually have to deal with the fascist threat, at which point the fascists start collapsing because you have to be stupid to be fascist so fascism can't really stand up against a united front against it.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    The far right is financed by billionaires. Guess who finances the far left?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    To add to that, it's "easier" to be in the far right then the far left. Due to promotion of the right it feels easier to fit into that group, and lizard brain likes them bad us good make bad go away. Even when they are totally bass ackwards on the facts. U can't reason people out of positions that didn't reason themselves into, and it's easy to make people take up unreasonable positions when u flood them with misinformation campaigns and ruin the education system. This is u fortunatley appearing to be a global phenomenon, no doubt the global populace is headed toward Idiocracy.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Also billionaires, just fewer of them.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    George Soros is a liberal 😂

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Okay? He's still quite clearly a left-wing billionaire donor.

    Oh, I see. He doesn't meet your purity standards. My mistake for not being able to find an anarcho-communist billionaire in an age where the Overton Window is floating somewhere in the mid Atlantic.

    Republicans certainly denigrate him as far left all the time. I think that has to count for something.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    He's literally, definitionally, not far left, no purity test needed, lmao. Far left would be communism, maybe anarchism. Do you think there are communist or anarchist billionaires?

    Do you always concede to right wing framing at the drop of a hat? Grow a spine. Words have definitions.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ok, sorry if I came across as hostile or sardonic earlier, not my intention, but... chill out a bit, yeah? We're having a conversation.

    Let me clarify my position, just for the sake of argument.

    If the Republican party is the far right party, and the Democratic party is not far-left enough to be considered far-left, then the answer to the question "Who funds the far-left" then is apparently nobody, because they functionally do not exist as a political power in the United States. It's kind of like asking "Who has been hiding Bigfoot all these years?" - it presumes that Bigfoot is real to begin with.

    In the absence of a far-left party in America, you're right, there are no billionaires funding the far-left.

    However, they call it the political spectrum because it's a spectrum. Words, as you say, have definitions. Who would be considered the farthest left politician in government right now? Bernie Sanders? AOC? Zohran Mamdani? Those folk could be considered progressive politicians, but that's about as far-left as you can possibly get in the current political climate. They represent the "far-left" faction of the democratic party. As much as I dislike it, progressives take money from billionaires too.

    I'm not conceding to far-right framing, it's just reality.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago

    There was a major effort by the government to dismantle functional far left political groups. The vacuum has been filled by a lot of people who are suspiciously unable to build a big tent and craft messages like they are designed to split communities rather than engage in effective change.

    The DSA and Working Families Party seem to be building an effective political strategy to get shit done, but a lot of other groups seem to just want to argue and protest.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Real-world problems are complex. Every solution to one problem affects other systems in unpredictable ways. When a large group of people agree on a solution, it is usually because it is simplistic and wrong.

    Classic example: prices are high. The left blames actual scarcity, corporate greed, climate change, institutional problems. Any solution that might address high prices will be complex and will have side effects. This will cause people to disagree.

    On the right, some jerkwad like Trump says "prices are high because of immigration - specifically, the immigration of brown people." The solution is ICE! Simple, easy to understand, dead wrong. Everyone on the right cheers!!!!!!

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    In other words: people hear what they want to, an easy scapegoat answer.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Yeah. It has happened over and over. For Hitler, it was the Jews: they cost Germany the war, they are the root of all social problems, etc. It is almost always some minority like immigrants or trans people. Scapegoats unify, complexity divides.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Authoritarians have endless enemies and boogie men, the Nazi went after way more than just Jews exactly like the US is against way more than just brown immigrants. It's always all minorities, immigrants, queers, leftists, socialists, scientists, historians, they will just keep adding to the list until there is nobody left if they have control for long enough.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    You are right! The Jews were their principal victims, but the Nazis feared and hated anyone who didn't match their chosen in-group. It is the same in America.

    It makes me realize why solidarity among those opposed to fascism is so important. I am not trans (for example), but I must stand in solidarity with trans people because the right wants to divide us. In fact, we should count that desire as one of the reasons the 'left' appears disorganized: the right sows chaos and discord among its enemies to make them easier to subjugate.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 month ago (21 children)

    Purity tests.

    There's enough holier-than-thou in most leftist groups to power the Catholic church for millennia.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (19 children)

    And it spreads everywhere. Can't even partake in pride march because of my wrong cultural views. Simply being gay isn't enough anymore - need to sing up for the package deal.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (18 children)

    What are these views, if I may ask? I have yet to see a pride march that is very exclusionary

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (17 children)

    Last pride march here had a ton of Palestinian flags there for example that not only has nothing to do with pride but is also a hilariously ignorant thing to do considering how gays get treated in most Muslim-majority countries.

    It's a left-wing event pretty much. If you're gay who leans right you're effectively straight.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (16 children)

    But you weren't excluded for not having a palestine flag, were you?

    You could participate the same way as everone else.

    The palestinians are fighting a similar fight as LGBT+ people because they are oppressed because of their identity. The people who bring Palestine flags want to show their support of the people affected by the genocide. They very rarely support the oppressive policies against LGBT+ People.

    Pride should be against any sort of oppression.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (15 children)

    No, I'm not excluded. I just don't want to march for an unrelated cause that people smuggle in which I don't support. They wouldn't tolerate me waving an Israeli flag there either, nor should they.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (14 children)

    One of these nations is the victim of genocide right now, the other one is commiting it.

    An Israel flag is similarly not appreciated like a russian or american flag would be. When the Ukraine war started, a lot of people also brought ukraine flags to unrelated protests.

    It is also not a fully unrelated cause, as the palestine flag also stands for an oppressed group like the pride flag. By joining the march you are protesting against oppression, so it isn't that far off.

    If you are against one kind of oppression but not against another, you aren't really against oppression.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (13 children)

    If you are against one kind of oppression but not against another, you aren’t really against oppression.

    Which circles back to my original point: simply being gay is no longer good enough.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Not really, because you are actively deciding to take a stance on the palestine flags. You can just take part in the pride parade without doing that. Nobody requires you to do much more.

    You don't have to endorse anything. You just have to accept that other people are fighting some other fights additionally.

    It is your personal view that specific people don't belong at pride. Nobody thinks you specifically shouldn't be there. You don't need to participate in other topics. You are making up requirements that don't exist.

    It's great to be "just" gay and go to pride. But you have to be okay with other people also being there, that might want to fight other oppression as well.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (11 children)

    You don’t have to endorse anything.

    No but presence is read as assent. I wouldn't join a right-leaning march if people were flying Nazi flags there either. It doesn't matter that I don't personally support them. By being there I effectively do.

    And I'm not equating a Nazi flag to a Palestinian flag. It's just a provocative example to highlight my point.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (10 children)

    There is always some more extreme people at marches, so at a leftist march you are very likely to see other people fighting for more causes.

    You don't need to share their viewpoint, but you should be able to tolerate their existance as they are also fighting oppression and thus sharing similar goals as you are.

    Do you disagree that the palestinians are fighting against oppression as well?

    People in Palestine don't have the ability to express themselves at all so their flag isn't extremely misplaced at pride.

    Once again, you don't need to be more than supportive of the LGBTQ community to participate in pride. But you should be comfortable with seeing other leftists at these parades, as the fight for freedom from oppression is one of the main themes of leftism.

    What is leftism if not the global fight against oppression?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    I don't know what else I can say to make my view clearer. There are people in those events that I don't want to be associated with. If they would only focus on the pride thing and keep the rest of it to themselves, then I could choose to not care about it but they don't and thus I wish to not partake.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    Then you are quite opportunistic.

    I understand your point but I disagree with the premise of it. There is a very famous quote by Martin Niemöller called "First They Came", which describes very well why I disagree with you. You can't just fight against the oppression you disagree with.

    The fight for a free palestine is just as important as the fight for LGBTQ+ rights.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    He just doesn't want his cause being co-opted by another. It's dishonest.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    Co-opted by flags?

    They weren't even asked to leave or anything or were forced to agree with anything. Just tolerate people wanting to show their support for multiple causes at one parade.

    There are also usually pride flags at other themed parades at least where I am from, so the point is pretty weak.

    In a thread about leftists not working together, it isn't very fitting to complain about leftists actually agreeing on different causes and walking together.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (5 children)

    Being gay is not a left-wing position. A Pride march is a claim about sexual orientation and gender, not a general anti-oppression festival. By making it a left-wing event you're making roughly 50% of sexual minorities not feel welcome there. Pride is supposed to be about tolerance and inclusivity but these people are making it conditional.

    Pride flags being present in other events doesn't weaken my argument but just further highlights it. That is exactly the same thing as flying a Palestinian flag in a Pride event. It does not belong there.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    Do you know how pride started? Do you know why pride is still done?

    If LGBTQ+ people had the same rights as straight people it would be a celebration of this. This is not the case though, so pride fights for equal rights for us and against the oppression of the state.

    I don't think it is a general anti-oppression festival, but that other fights against oppression aren't really out of place there or are diluting the cause.

    Which sexual minorities wouldn't feel welcome at left-wing-events?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Which sexual minorities wouldn’t feel welcome at left-wing-events?

    The right-leaning ones.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    In what areas are you/they right leaning? If we would go from a general right-leaning perspective, that most parties in different countries are going by, they would also disagree with pride and LGBTQ+ rights.

    So I need a clearer definition of what you mean by right-leaning

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    You can't be seriously suggesting that being in a sexual minority is somehow tied to one's political leaning. Depending on the poll roughly 2 to 9 percent of the US population identify as LGBT. That is of the total population, not just Democrats. The extremists on the far right spouting hatred toward gays don't represent the right as a whole any more than the far-left antisemites do. They're simply holding the rest of the group hostage as hardly anybody dares to speak up. The gays on the right are under just as much oppression as the gays on the left - possibly even more.

    If you make it a left-wing event you're by definition excluding everyone not identifying with leftism. It's one of the few things that should unite the left and the right but instead it gets politicized to the point that even people in that minority like myself turn against the whole Pride ideology.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    In reality all of the culture war conflict is just a distraction from the real class war that is happening everywhere.

    This is enough of this conversation for me.

    A good day to you!

    Human Rights for everyone!

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    The right is always about clear hierarchy and obedience. The left is more about personal freedom to the point of anarchy. Guess which side organizes better.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago

    At least in the states every time the Left organizes the Feds start executing people, Chairman Fred, MLK Jr, the MOVE bombings…

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago

    I've tried to explain concepts to people. People don't kniw they are racist. People don't underatand why the shouldn't use Facebook or Google. People don't understand that trans people are not turning kids gay. I've tried to explain the horrors coming from privacy loss for 15 years.

    Nobody listens. I'm tired boss.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago

    Obligatory:

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    Because we are trying to make sense, not just to be convincing.

    On the process divergences may appear.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The right/left divide has a lot of definitions but the one it feels right to apply here is the oldest one. Right wants to maintain and reinforce existent hierachies. Left wants to change them. Now, notice that there is an extremely well defined goal for the right, to maintain and reinforce the thing we all can see right in front if us. The left on the other hand, doesn't have a defined, unified goal state. Someone can be 'left' and want to bring down their current government in favour of an entirely different, maybe even more powerful and centralised state, or they can be 'left' and want to eliminate the idea of any person or group having authority over any other person or group. To use more modern examples, 'tankies' and 'anarcho-primitivists' are both 'leftist' insofar as they both agree the systems of places in the global 'west' should end, despite how little they agree on what should happen after.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    The far-left and far-right are compromised of different groups with some common goals and some specific, often incompatible goals.

    On the right the common goal is the more important one and groups are able to compromise on their specific goals in order to move the entire right wing agenda forward. Conservative brain is very good at accepting higher power type justifications and are able to sacrifice their own interests in the name of the leader/group.

    On the left the group specific goals are based on identity and people can't compromise on them. The common goals become secondary issues that can be sacrificed and the groups specific goals are the main objective. Anyone proposing a compromise is seen as a traitor to their identity and their group.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Because, contrary to what they say, a lot of leftists are intolerant of opinions that differ from their own. A lot of them have a black-white mentality, where either you are 100% with them or otherwise you are against them and might as well be Hitler incarnate. They live in extreme bubbles which just enforces this behaviour. You can see this very well in some subreddits and also here on Lemmy, since Lemmy is very left leaning.

    In german we have this saying:

    "Treffen sich 2 Linke, bilden sich drei Splittergruppen"

    "Two leftists meet, 3 splintergroups are formed".

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    For the most part it boils down to the right being largely status quo. They want to go back to a state that while in it's own way is anachronistic and a fantasy is still based on something old and familiar and easy to envision. The left, at least in the places where it isn't already the status quo, is always somewhat nebulous due to the desire for progress but there is a host of splits based around individual peoples comforts and privileges or their view of what new things and societies to attempt and what those things should look like. You see similar divisions in art spaces because there's multiple visions and disciplines and means of achieving a similar goal.

    A lot of the division on the left exists due to a fairly foundational theory held by some but not others : that minority rights and protections are nessisary in all cases because if you can argue effectively against removing one set of rights then that argument will prove effective in the removal of other civil rights. The most vulnerable need protection not just because it is the right ethical thing to do but because in the game theory of protections it's the only locktight way to ensure safety for everyone's rights.

    However many prejudices exist. Many leftists want exceptions to protections because defending all is difficult. When you exist in a democracy one has to appeal to the many and the prejudice against "the undeserving" whatever state that implies is always a hard sell to people who cannot apply empathy. Hierarchy is important to many people even though they might not think of it in those terms. They want to be the "deserving" over the "undeserving" and with that moral authority strip the protection from others. The shattered left is not immune to this desire, it just tends to be more choosy. Some look at incremental change as abhorrent and as a moral and ethical betrayal, others see the sacrifice of the hardest to protect as a temporary means to buy time and power so that change can be made and you can see some of those people make too much peace with the literal blood toll associated with that action by doubling down.

    To be leftist is to be aware of a multitude of pains and since we all individually have only so much mental space to triage everyone prioritizes differently.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    there's a lot more far right billionaires than far left billionaires

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The right is effectively a monolith: half a country rallying around rich white Christian men, to the detriment of everyone else. The left is the "everyone else". Rather than one central idea, the political left is a patchwork coalition of various identities and ideologies. Women's rights, black rights, gay rights, labor rights, immigrant rights, Muslims, pacifists, climate realists, anarchists, unionists, as well as a huge chunk that's also rich white Christian men who just happen to not be Republican. Everyone is trying to fly their own flag, but the one mostly-unifying ideal they all share is that Republicans are the enemy.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago

    The blind believe in 1 strong man at the top and a clear strict hierarchy are key ideas within far right ideology. It's easier to organise the right, but it's also easier for the right to en masse follow the crazy dumb ideas of that leader. Left organising from grassroots up is a lot harder, but in theory better.

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