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[–] 44 points 2 months ago*
[–] 27 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

This is true proportional/scaled size. I'm sure Russia is bigger than an inch wide as it's displayed on my screen

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    In other news: Trump doesn't want Greenland anymore...

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Actually, 164 to 1 countries voted in favour of the new projection, the one opposing vote was from the USA.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    um, okay but this specific distortion is unhelpful to me. it just shows the extent of the distortion, not what the new map would be. the new map is the most pertinent piece of info.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    This is a good and long coming change.

    Reminder that the red depiction is also "wrong", and not the equal area projection. The equal area projection map looks like this:

    (Can't upload pictures on blahaj piefed, HTTP 400 error)

    In some senses, the red area is more wrong than the Mercator, since it is not a projection at all, but a false projection. The distances between the countries are misleading, especially when superimposed on the Mercator, which is also misleading in terms of sizes, but not shape.

    All projections are compromises, but false projections are completely untethered from a mathematical relationship to the actual globe.

    It is OK and not misleading if it were made clear that the red area is NOT a map, but a way of depicting the size only. Since it is shown in a geographic context with no disclaimer, i don't think this is universally apparent.

    Here is a link to a 3D globe: https://tembrica.com/en/earth-globe

    Here is a good comparator of Mercator size vs equal size countries, not superimposed on a map. https://www.runcell.dev/tool/true-size-map/equal-earth-projection

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)
  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    It’s great for countries in the middle, I.e Europe. Everyone else gets warped and slanted to the side.

    Gonna have to rename ourselves to Australia.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    There are many equal area world map projections, this one is called Equal Earth. It’s a very solid choice too. Although the very top and bottom of this map are still stretched when viewed on a Tissot indicatrix. Still way better than the shitty Mercator.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Why is the Mercator shitty? It has its purpose and it's good in it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    It certainly has its purpose, and always will. People talk like it’s outdated from seafaring days, but not only is there still plenty of seafaring going on, the Mercator got a new lease on life in digital mapping applications.

    I called it shitty just because I really like maps, and when it comes to world maps, I think it’s overused, and just plain ugly. I realize that is a completly subjective opinion.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Watch out, UN. My idiot president is gonna get mad.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    All world maps are inaccurate except a globe. Equal Earth still shows distortions when you move closer to the poles. Instead of stretching along the latitude it now compresses along the longitude

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Would be nice to see Antarctica

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I was already aware how big Africa really is. I'm actually more surprised that Greenland is smaller.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago
    [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Big Block of Cheese Day finally became prophecy! 😭

    I shall gather my team and walk fast through the halls in remembrance of a wonderful show that was almost entirely based on wishful thinking.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I'm kinda surprised there weren't tons of countries against this. For its faults in representing size the Mercator projection is great at representing direction (that's what it was intended for after all). For Japan, New Zealand, and even Austrailia this places North at really awkward angles, making what are in reality straight lines appear curved. If anything, this is even more euro centric than the Mercator projection due to the amount of straight line distortion applied being longitude dependent, centered around Europe. I'd also expect Russia to be against it since it makes them look smaller, even if they don't have the same distortion problem as countries directly opposite Western Europe.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    The projection should have been changed, but it should be a a compromise projection like Robinson or Winkel Tripel that doesn't perfectly preserve area, distance, shape, or direction, but also doesn't horribly distort any of them.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    Hahaha, Russia 🤏

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  • [–] 78 points 2 months ago (48 children)

    Every few years this comes up again, and every time some nonsense about colonialism or whatever is brought up.

    There is no "true" size or "true" shape on a 2D projection of Earth's very 3D surface. We used the one projection for so long because of how coastal shapes don't get bent way out of proportion, but like with any projection, messes with the other aspects.

    Rather than making spicy click bait titles every so often about the "true" projection of the Earth, how about we teach kids at school what it takes to project something 3D on a 2D surface?

    And just use a fucking globe!

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    I mean, before the advent of GPS, ships at sea got a "fix" of their position by taking two measurements: north/south latitude (via a sextant when the sun was visible) and east/west longitude (via a set of very accurate clocks that showed the time in Greenwich England, which could be easily compared to the time aboard ship). Mercator maps are just a grid showing where all the land is as a function of these two measurements on the X and Y axes. Any other projection would have just meant a lot more work figuring out where shit was, which is why Mercator became "the" map. It had absolutely nothing to do with any attempt to make Europe appear dominant -- Europe's dominance when these maps came into existence was too obvious and unquestioned to need any parlor tricks.

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  • [–] 47 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (31 children)

    As a neurodivergent map person, I'm over-aware of the difficulties of map projection. And I agree that simply calling this new projection 'accurate' is misleading

    But at the same time, the use of the Mercator as the standard default map in situations that have nothing to do with ocean navigation for literally hundreds of years is absolutely a reflection of the relative power of the Global North, and can't be dismissed as 'nonsense about colonialism'

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    so coming from you pleasr tell us what would be the best way to project an as accurate as possible world map? I mena both in 3D version and as a 2D version

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Pick one that suits your application.

    If you're not using it to engage in navigation, Equal Earth is a sensible default.

    Tools like Google maps are a bit thornier. They're used for navigation, but generally not in a way where angles matter. I could see someone getting themselves into trouble because the angles are screwy. But then again if Google cared about that sort of case, we wouldn't have the recent story of the Gemini hikers.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    yeah, i tried to figure out the angle between two points off google maps the other day. it fucking sucked. i ended up using another website that was basically a frontend for doing it.

    i'm still not sure if it was right. if i go orienteering again, i'm bringing paper maps. precharted routes and angles drawn in so i don't have to look anything up out in the field. orienteering off your phone is stupid.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    That is not really an answer.

    What is the best general world map to teach kids about the world, that we can put in a book or as a poster on the wall, without having to switch to different maps for each lessen, confusing everyone?

    If it is not Mercator, then which one is?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    For teaching kids Equal Earth is a reasonable choice. Scale and relative global position are conveyed better.

    A side effect of Mercator massively distorting size near the poles, neither Europe nor Canada don't feel as North as they actually are.

    Kids don't have much of a reason to care about specific angles.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    A 3D version would be a globe. A 2D version is inherently inaccurate because it's 2D and the earth is not. You are free to pick your poison in the manner of your projection but you will always loose something.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    So when it comes to picking a 2D poison which ome would be currently best? The new UN map ? or ....

    Or would a better solution for 2D be a 'collection' of pictures of the Earth from numerous different angles? And we just look at each of the angles seperately as their own seperate 2D picture of different parts of the Earth? So Im talking we supposedly take 14 or 20 or more different pictures of the Earth from 14 or 20 or more different angles of the Earth then we just lay out each of those pictures and it is up to the viewer to look at each picture of each angles of the Earth and to do what they can in their head with those pictures. Bad idea, good idea?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    The Mercator projection really seems to be Africa-centric if anything

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    In what way? It inflates the size of areas as they get further away from the equator, resulting in Africa being portrayed as relatively much smaller than it is compared to Europe and North America

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Africa is by far the most accurately portrayed part of the map, and it’s right in the center.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    The center - east to west - is 0 degrees longitude, defined as the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, England. This does also go through West Africa

    The center - north to south - is 0 degrees latitude, defined as the equator.

    Because of this, Africa is central on the vast majority of world map projections including the Mercator and the Equal Earth.

    Accuracy is relative. The Mercator distorts areas bigger the further away they are from the equator. This exaggerates the size of the USA, Europe etc compared to Africa.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    The big advantage is that the 180th meridian ends up in a very unpopulated part of the world. It is Chukotka Oblast and more importantly Fiji. For the current 0meridian style maps, that is two edges being without much population and not cutting too many continents.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (7 children)

    What better alternative projection they could use at the time for navigation?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I don't know? That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the UN using it not for navigation in 2026

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    But at the same time, the use of the Mercator as the standard default map in situations that have nothing to do with ocean navigation for literally hundreds of years

    My question continues that thread.
    And my point (subtle it may be) is that when something is wildly useful, it sticks.
    Despite not being universally good.

    And to change from it you need more than just a slight advantage.
    That's why the UN didn't think about changing map projection.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    You might note that the present is, in fact, not 500 years ago.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Is that the answer to my question?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    If you’re asking me to tell you the best way to navigate 500 years ago, I can’t help you because I’m not a historian. The point is that really has absolutely no bearing on how we should use maps today in the present.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    It is complete nonsense. Use makes something standard, and maps have most been used in navigation. So it naturally becomes the default.

    This is how ALL defaults become defaults, even when they're wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

    You know it’s the Reverse Transverse Mercator right?

    It’s been the best way to transform a curved surface to a plane surface in a way that people understand.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    It's not the Reverse Mercator... I'm not sure what that is

    Do you mean Transverse Mercator? Although it's not that either

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Yeah I did, thank you

    Edit: and yeah we definitely use the transverse

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    We do not

    (Well, we do sometimes but it's not the map in question)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    The link you provide says we use the Transverse Mercator projection

    I screwed up with ‘reverse’ but it was transverse I meant and it’s what’s popularly used.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    It says it is used. But it's not the map this thread is talking about. It's not the map the UN is replacing. It's not the map in the thumbnail. It's not the original Mercator map. Its not the most widely used map projection.

    It's used in specific situations yes

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I don't really understand the difference, but Greenland is not bigger than Australia right?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    No

    Think of opening the earth up onto a cylinder and stretching it out and over its surface, then flattening that cylinder out.

    It will be equal in the centre, but distorted at the ends.

    The projection we use is the Reverse Transverse Mercator, as its ‘cylinder’ sits vertical so to speak, distorting the poles. Horizontally, it would distort across the Equator in a couple places, which wouldn’t be useable.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    Isn't this incorrect though? As far as I am aware it is possible to represent true size (equal-area) or true shape (conformal), but not both at the same time

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, isn't that what I said?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    some nonsense about colonialism or whatever

    Wow imagine believing this nonsense. Privileged "or whatever" AF. Why do you think USA voted against this? Ofc it's racist and colonial.

    Then there is the politics. The United States voted against the resolution, insisting it was a distraction. But American resistance actually strengthens the argument of those who voted to change the map. If the map does not matter, why oppose it? If size does not matter, why insist on preserving the projection that makes the US appear larger? ...

    Moky Makura of Africa No Filter put it more sharply: “If we got something as basic as Africa’s size wrong for this long, what else about Africa have we simply accepted without questioning? Africa doesn’t need to be made bigger. It needs to be seen accurately.” ...

    The geopolitical implications of this generational shift should not be underestimated. The Mercator projection did not merely distort geography; it distorted ambition. For centuries, European and American leaders made decisions about Africa based on a visual representation that made the continent look insignificant. That misperception shaped colonial borders, investment decisions and strategic calculations. The Equal Earth projection will not erase that history, but ultimately, it will reshape how future leaders, African and non-African alike, conceive of the continent...

    Dr Ikenna is right that the science of map projections is technical and trade-offs are unavoidable. But the politics of representation is not technical. It is about how people see the world and, more importantly, how they see themselves in it. Friday’s vote was not about changing geography. It was about changing perception. And perception, as every cartographer knows, is the map that matters most. - https://www.thecable.ng/the-mercator-myth-how-a-map-shaped-the-worlds-view-of-africa/

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    The Americans will turn literally everything into some sort of pissing contest. I don't give a fuck about their reasons for voting against the change, they'll always have some dumb reason to do dumb American things.

    Doesn't change simple historical facts, no matter how much you try to redefine them with a modern lense.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Woo hoo! I'm going to hike across Siberia now. It is so small.

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