Kobibi comments on The world map is changing: The UN has backed replacing the 500-year-old Mercator projection with the accurate Equal Earth projection

The world map is changing: The UN has backed replacing the 500-year-old Mercator projection with the accurate Equal Earth projection (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 months ago by time2lose@lemmy.world to c/interestingasfuck@lemmy.world

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 47 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (31 children)

As a neurodivergent map person, I'm over-aware of the difficulties of map projection. And I agree that simply calling this new projection 'accurate' is misleading

But at the same time, the use of the Mercator as the standard default map in situations that have nothing to do with ocean navigation for literally hundreds of years is absolutely a reflection of the relative power of the Global North, and can't be dismissed as 'nonsense about colonialism'

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[–] UnequalExchange@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (7 children)

so coming from you pleasr tell us what would be the best way to project an as accurate as possible world map? I mena both in 3D version and as a 2D version

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[–] paraplu@piefed.social 6 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Pick one that suits your application.

If you're not using it to engage in navigation, Equal Earth is a sensible default.

Tools like Google maps are a bit thornier. They're used for navigation, but generally not in a way where angles matter. I could see someone getting themselves into trouble because the angles are screwy. But then again if Google cared about that sort of case, we wouldn't have the recent story of the Gemini hikers.

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[–] lemming741@lemmy.world 1 point 2 months ago

I'd missed that story.

https://www.androidauthority.com/google-gemini-mountain-trip-hikers-rescue-3708165/

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[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 point 2 months ago*

yeah, i tried to figure out the angle between two points off google maps the other day. it fucking sucked. i ended up using another website that was basically a frontend for doing it.

i'm still not sure if it was right. if i go orienteering again, i'm bringing paper maps. precharted routes and angles drawn in so i don't have to look anything up out in the field. orienteering off your phone is stupid.

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[–] Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

That is not really an answer.

What is the best general world map to teach kids about the world, that we can put in a book or as a poster on the wall, without having to switch to different maps for each lessen, confusing everyone?

If it is not Mercator, then which one is?

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[–] paraplu@piefed.social 2 points 2 months ago

For teaching kids Equal Earth is a reasonable choice. Scale and relative global position are conveyed better.

A side effect of Mercator massively distorting size near the poles, neither Europe nor Canada don't feel as North as they actually are.

Kids don't have much of a reason to care about specific angles.

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[–] philipp_@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

A 3D version would be a globe. A 2D version is inherently inaccurate because it's 2D and the earth is not. You are free to pick your poison in the manner of your projection but you will always loose something.

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[–] UnequalExchange@lemmy.world 1 point 2 months ago

So when it comes to picking a 2D poison which ome would be currently best? The new UN map ? or ....

Or would a better solution for 2D be a 'collection' of pictures of the Earth from numerous different angles? And we just look at each of the angles seperately as their own seperate 2D picture of different parts of the Earth? So Im talking we supposedly take 14 or 20 or more different pictures of the Earth from 14 or 20 or more different angles of the Earth then we just lay out each of those pictures and it is up to the viewer to look at each picture of each angles of the Earth and to do what they can in their head with those pictures. Bad idea, good idea?

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[–] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago (6 children)

The Mercator projection really seems to be Africa-centric if anything

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 months ago (5 children)

In what way? It inflates the size of areas as they get further away from the equator, resulting in Africa being portrayed as relatively much smaller than it is compared to Europe and North America

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[–] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Africa is by far the most accurately portrayed part of the map, and it’s right in the center.

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[–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Now I’m imagining a dick measuring contest where the men care more about whose is measured most accurately for some reason, rather than showing off how long their dick is

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago

The center - east to west - is 0 degrees longitude, defined as the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, England. This does also go through West Africa

The center - north to south - is 0 degrees latitude, defined as the equator.

Because of this, Africa is central on the vast majority of world map projections including the Mercator and the Equal Earth.

Accuracy is relative. The Mercator distorts areas bigger the further away they are from the equator. This exaggerates the size of the USA, Europe etc compared to Africa.

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[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 point 2 months ago

The big advantage is that the 180th meridian ends up in a very unpopulated part of the world. It is Chukotka Oblast and more importantly Fiji. For the current 0meridian style maps, that is two edges being without much population and not cutting too many continents.

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[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

it's in the center?

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[–] w3ird_sloth@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Exactly. It's easy to brush off the idea of soft power but it has real consequences.

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[–] Viceversa@lemmy.world 1 point 2 months ago (7 children)

What better alternative projection they could use at the time for navigation?

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

I don't know? That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the UN using it not for navigation in 2026

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[–] Viceversa@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

But at the same time, the use of the Mercator as the standard default map in situations that have nothing to do with ocean navigation for literally hundreds of years

My question continues that thread.
And my point (subtle it may be) is that when something is wildly useful, it sticks.
Despite not being universally good.

And to change from it you need more than just a slight advantage.
That's why the UN didn't think about changing map projection.

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

You might note that the present is, in fact, not 500 years ago.

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[–] Viceversa@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Is that the answer to my question?

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

If you’re asking me to tell you the best way to navigate 500 years ago, I can’t help you because I’m not a historian. The point is that really has absolutely no bearing on how we should use maps today in the present.

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[–] Viceversa@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 child)

And the present doesn't affect the past.

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[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

from the perspective of an art conservationist i'm not entirely sure i agree.

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[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 1 point 2 months ago

It is complete nonsense. Use makes something standard, and maps have most been used in navigation. So it naturally becomes the default.

This is how ALL defaults become defaults, even when they're wrong.

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[–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

You know it’s the ~~Reverse~~ Transverse Mercator right?

It’s been the best way to transform a curved surface to a plane surface in a way that people understand.

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

It's not the Reverse Mercator... I'm not sure what that is

Do you mean Transverse Mercator? Although it's not that either

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[–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 2 months ago* (3 children)

Yeah I did, thank you

Edit: and yeah we definitely use the transverse

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

(Well, we do sometimes but it's not the map in question)

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[–] stylusmobilus@aussie.zone 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

The link you provide says we use the Transverse Mercator projection

I screwed up with ‘reverse’ but it was transverse I meant and it’s what’s popularly used.

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[–] Kobibi@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 months ago*

It says it is used. But it's not the map this thread is talking about. It's not the map the UN is replacing. It's not the map in the thumbnail. It's not the original Mercator map. Its not the most widely used map projection.

It's used in specific situations yes

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