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[–] 35 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I'm sorry who the fuck has a $1000 deductible??? We have decent insurance for the US and the deductible is $7500 each (family plan thru employment)...

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    My last two jobs had really great insurance with no deductible and little to no premium paid by me. Really lucked out when I had a bone breaking accident.

    My current insurance from a rather large company is $3500 deductible in network, $6000 out of network, and $450 a month paid by me.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    My insurance is fully covered by my employer. It's rare, but it does exist.

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  • [–] 30 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    OP has no idea what health insurance cost these days.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Nor do international members, care to share?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    More like $1000+ a month for a policy with a $7000+ annual deductible. If you're lucky and have a job with subsidized health insurance, it's much more reasonable. I'm a school bus driver and have excellent health insurance (which is rare for school bus drivers); I pay $129 a month while the district pays the rest and I have essentially no deductible.

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    I guess the idea of paying them well is that they can't be bought with bribes. Then again, when has any wealthy person ever been satisfied.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    If the job didn't pay a salary, the only people who could do the job would be the rich who don't need a salary, or those willing to accept bribes.

    If you make the salary too low, it will discourage anybody who can make a better living doing something else. And, if the people doing it don't think they're being paid what they're really worth, they're more likely to take bribes or "donations" to boost their salary back up to what it should be.

    Really, the salary should be high. It should be a job that people who are really qualified will want to do. It should be one where you have no need to take a bribe because you're already doing so well, and you'd be afraid of throwing away such a well compensated job.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I wouldn't say it's so that they can't be bought, so much as so they don't have to be bought. It's part of the reason they haven't voted for a pay raise and so long. Their owners don't want them to have other options.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Lawmakers don't vote for their pay raises, they don't need to. The increases were made automatic in 1989. Even with the annual increases, their pay is nothing compared to what they can make from insider information and contributions from anonymous PACs. They can be bought, government salary just can't compete with dark money.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    That isn't quite accurate. Congress hasn't gotten a pay raise since 2009. Because they vote against giving themselves one.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Ah, I'd read they didn't have to vote to get a pay raise. Didn't see that they had been actively voting against it. But who needs a raise when you know you'll get waaay more money from corps and special interest groups? Heck, they'll even write the bills they want passed for you, so you don't even have to work hard.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    They also carry a hell of a lot more responsibility than the average American worker. Is be in favor of a party raise along with restricting other income streams like stock investments.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    300 a month and a thousand dollar deductible?!?!

    where the fuck is that deal, it’s like 8k deductible and 600 a month

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  • [–] 41 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    The idea behind a high salary for representatives is that they don't need to take on extra money from lobbyists to survive. Keep the salaries, but make bribery illegal again and things will get better. Make the salaries low AND get the money out of politics and you'll only get rich people becoming politicians. Oh and term limits should be a thing.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    Bribery is still illegal. But it’s not a “bribe” unless it’s paid directly to the politician in exchange for something specific (quid pro quo). So you just need to obfuscate that deal enough so that you can’t prove it’s a bribe, in the legal sense. (SuperPACs, etc).

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Tbf yes, that's what I meant. The legal form of bribery, shouldn't be.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    99% of a lawyers job is to find loopholes in the law.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    And they have to work 40 hours a week every week, or they get no benefits... just..like..us.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • I was on private health insurance for a couple of years. My premium was over $300 a month and my deductible was $7000. I had looked for an ACA policy on the government website but something with the same level of deductible was closer to $1000 a month. What really sucked is that my private policy did not qualify for the exemption from the fine you had to pay for not having health insurance. Somehow I never had to pay the fine, I dunno why not. I'm sure my policy also would have fucked me if I'd ever tried to collect on it, but fortunately I was completely healthy during that stretch.

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  • [–] 104 points 2 months ago* (18 children)

    I get the idea behind it, but this very much would backfire in that only the rich could become representation. Remember they made it a rule that they aren't allowed to sleep in their office while in D.C., and 60k not only won't afford a place in D.C, it most definitely won't allow for someone to have a home near their constituents AND D.C.

    So we would end up with just having first or second sons of oligarchs, 1 trained to run the companies, the other trained to represent their families best interests.

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  • [–] 50 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Or, and hear me out in this one, if the average is not sustainable they would need to raise the average or lower costs until a balance was reached. By forcing them to play by the very rules that are writing, there is an incentive to make them fair.

    While this may not be there exact way too achieve that, the goal is still a good one to work towards.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    The problem is, representatives and senators don't live average lifestyles. They need to pay for two residences, one of which is in one of the most expensive metro areas in the country. Then the constant transit costs between the two. They also pay their staff out of their own pocket if I remember correctly.

    Truth is they need to be paid much more. With 100% of salary in retirement. And they need to be barred from any kind of employment after.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Hear me out, maybe we could build some sort of large building/s with a lot of small houses in them for them to live in while in DC. The government could even give them some sort of vouchers that helps them pay the rent or the buildings could just be owned by the government.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    And how is that supposed to work ? You can't fix the healthcare care system or economy in a day, so non wealthy people would still struggle to live as politicians whilst those changes are being worked on, meaning there's little motivation for them to join politics, and independently wealthy people who are just in it for the power wouldn't give a fuck about being badly paid. Look at Trump. He doesn't even take a salary, because he's corrupt and wealthy enough to not need it, so his salary being low would matter fuck all to him and other corrupt pieces of crap like him.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    if the average is not sustainable they would need to raise the average or lower costs until a balance was reached

    I think you misunderstood what you're responding to. This would create a situation where being in politics is only not sustainable for people of average means. People who are already independently wealthy would have no trouble at all sustaining themselves on an average salary and have zero (0) incentive to do anything to make life easier for you or I.

    The problem isn't that people in Congress get paid a decent wage. The problem is they have so much money from their families, from their businesses, and/or from lobbyists that they're more or less totally divorced from what life is like for most people

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    We don't need the entire country to have a second home in DC and to be resistant to bribes.

    Congress should make good enough money that they don't need to invest in the stock market and they don't care about negligible bribes. Bigger bribes are theoretically easier to catch in the legal system and/or public accountability.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    For people complaining about the cost of living to cover in DC, build them some public housing barracks they can stay in so they have that covered.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    That can easily be fixed. Salary is the median (not average, because making more ultra-wealthy shouldn't be encouraged) US income + median COL in DC. Maybe add some extra on top to cover travel and other expenses.

    The goal is to make enriching the American people equivalent to enriching themselves. Currently it's usually the opposite.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    How about this:

    We pay politicians in "X times the minimum wage"; for the sake of this example I'll say 30x the minimum wage (too much? Too little? I don't know, that's not important rn)

    The thing is, they can't change this number, at all. The only way they can increase their salaries is to increase the minimum wage.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    The Great Stink 1858 caused by the combination of everyone dumping their refuse into the river Thames and unusually low water levels, was being mostly ignored by the British parliament until the members were forced to return to work in the parliament building close to the river where the smell was at its worst.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    We are long past the point where they represented us.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    I thought after citizens united they represent corporations not us

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    I agree on spirit, but in practice this will just make them even easier to be bought.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    As if they aren't already bought. At least you'll have one of your own elevated and not some already rich asshole trying to get richer.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    I think this is overstated. You can't even run for Congress without being a millionaire, a millionaire's family, a lawyer, a lobbyist, or a military officer looking to cash out.

    You can't get in the door of Congress without being in hoc to a constellation of private interests. Capping their pay won't change that.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    you got a point. Also I think that they get bought of either way, so why not safe a little on their salary ;)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Because Congress sets its own salary. I don't. So, I have no say in the matter.

    Also because there's no real "cost savings" in a material sense. Congressional spending has been decoupled from federal taxation since the Great Depression. Pay congressmen $1/term. Pay them $1M/hr. I don't see any kind of change in my material condition.

    Incidentally, the Gingrich Era Contract with America was billed as a legislation package to rein in the capacity for Congresscritters to personally enrich and profiteer off their positions. Similarly, Pelosi's For The People Act included a number of reforms intended to prevent Congress from double-dealing and insider trading. Despite both Speakers enjoying a bicameral majority and a friendly President during their careers, neither successfully advanced legislation to handcuff members of Congress.

    Asking Congress to regulate itself is a fool's request.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    pretty sure most of them are millionaires, because the billionaire donors are giving them money, in other forms. even with those restrictions, they get millions from the billionaires in thier pockets. Thats why Dinos are fighting just as hard to keep that way.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Also politicians wouldn't exactly be less corruptible if they were poorer.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    i think it makes them more susceptible to it, because they need money, and will do anything for it. mtg and boeboe were poor by congress standard, after less than 2 years they became millionaires overnight. Mitch in the 2010s, was only 3-ish millions and increased his wealth 10times in less than 10years.

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  • The billionaire donors are giving their campaigns money - direct bribery is still illegal. They make their millions from either a) book deals and speaking tours (generally legal and legitimate), b) insider trading (illegal but rarely enforced against congresspeople), or c) leaving Congress to influence peddle for private companies for inflated salaries (needs to be much more heavily regulated).

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    They weren't ever supposed to represent you, they represent rich white men like they were intended. It's literally designed to favor the rich because literally every single one of the signers of the bill of rights was a wealthy dude, to a man they were middle - upper class and in general criminals at that.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Y'all got a 1k deductible?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    70? They shouldnt be electable after 60!

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    Pay them 5 million per year for all I care so long as they actually represent the people and not private interest groups, are not currupt, and are some of the best people for the job. And that would be an incredibility good deal.

    People can be wealthy and not totally out of touch if they make an effort to listen to people

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    The problem isn't age, it's corruption and entrenchment.

    We need term limits for Congress.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    I'm not sure where the meme creator got the idea that they represent us.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    I disagree. Low salaries in congress is exactly the kind of thing that gives lobbyists power.

    Poor staffers and low paid representatives are more likely to become lobbyists themselves or to take bribes. Congresspeople should be given an ultimatum, they can only serve in congress if they agree to never make income from any other source ever again in their lives… even after one term. In return, they’re guaranteed a modest pension starting when they leave that pays 80% of their current salary (should be a healthy salary), increasing with inflation. They can not trade stocks, accept gifts, or own any form of property except a single residence.

    If you want to serve the people, you can only serve the people and not yourself. Congresspeople should be truly selfless individuals.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Yeah, then just their spouses will work for the oil, tech, or war companies.

    I do agree with everything you said, I just also know they'll slime their ways to paydays one way or another.

    Where I live, lawyers go on to be judges, preside over landmark cases, leave the bench, and go work in that industry for the people they presided in favor of. We live in joke world.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    While this sounds good on the surface, the problem is that requiring legislators to live with the same financial difficulties most of us face would lead to sharp increases in direct bribery and overt corruption. As bad as it is anyway that effectively unlimited campaign/PAC contributions can be used to corrupt them, if their personal finances were significantly more trying, it would be much worse, especially given that most legislators have more personal expenses than the average person, including maintaining resdences in both DC and their home state/district. The much better (but also much, much more difficult) solution would be to raise the incomes of most Americans rather than to reduce the income of the legislators.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Lmao they have all ways been taking bribes. Lobbying is legalized bribery…

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  • It absolutely is, but there is still a massive motivational difference between needing campaign funds to facilitate getting re-elected and needing personal money to pay for rent/mortgage, food, childcare, etc. The latter opens the door to the kinds of bribes that, if promises made are unfulfilled, come with direct personal consequences, and potentially violent ones. By contrast, if a politician doesn’t make good on a promise made in return for campaign/PAC contributions, they typically are only risking that support being given to their opponent next time around.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I don't know. On one hand, I think it's naive to think that dragging these politicians down to our level is going to make them see things through a different lens, as most of them are multi-millionaires anyway and the pay they get is just the gravy on top, and reducing their salaries isn't going to fix any kind of budgetary problem all on it's own - the money that they earn off of taxpayers is nothing compared to the national debt.

    On the other hand, this cadre of politicians who exercise the most power and authority is so openly corrupt now that they do not even bother to hide it anymore. I feel like you can't get much worse than we already are without them resorting to literal mustache twirling acts of villainy.

    Now, if we were somehow able to make them give up their wealth, to divest themselves from the financial consequences of their actions and live with the lasting legacy that they themselves wrought for others, that might have some effect, but that would require people to be altruistic and principled enough to understand that taking a job as a public servant shouldn't make you rich, and you should do it for the good of the people you represent.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Remember it's not just the Republicans both sides of the aisle got their pockets loaded with bribe money to not change any of the laws. You get Jeffries on national TV crying about the usual Democratic talking points having everyone shake their head and saying not this shit again. Clearly he does not give a fuck about the $40,000 to $80,000 crowd they can eat cake. He wants to help the poor and there's nothing wrong with that but the main priority is helping everybody but don't forget the middle ground which they always do.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I want to hire someone who will take over vital aspects of my survival. But I want to do it in a punitive sort of way that makes sure the job will only be taken by people without the education, experience, and talent to demand more.

    It's okay to pay politicians. This genuinely is a "pay more, get more" kind of situation, at least up to a reasonable point.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    They only work a few months a year. For example, in USA they are only in session a few days until November, with all of October off.

    Have you ever watched them in session? Even when they're "working" it's like 90% dead time, moving at a snail's pace.

    What other job pays almost 200K a year, with half of the year off, the very best of health care included, and you can take time off whenever you'd like? Months! ...and that job ensures you'll always be able to out-perform the very best with your "insightful" stock trading?... and you can appoint your husband as the "ambassador of Bermuda", and travel to Bermuda on the taxpayer's dime?

    The Democrats are swimming in this shit just like "The Nazis". Just look at them. Revolting trash, the lot.

    I vote, you should vote... but never forget, they are contemptuous vipers who will backstab you and everyone standing with you without a second thought. They won't even remember your name.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Campaigning to keep that job gets more time than the actual job. They consider it part of what we pay them for, which is utter bullshit.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    The whole thing is set up completely wrong in the US. Campaign ads should be prohibited outside of a few weeks before election day. Two year terms are horrible because it means even more campaigning. Revoke citizens united, give both the house and senate 4 year terms and a few other changes to campaign finance laws in particular, and you could have a reasonable congress.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    This seems like it would make a rampant corrupt system even more corrupt. Imagine how cheap you could buy a rep for if they only made 60k on the books.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Yes this is exactly the reason they should actually make more than they do.

    It would also ensure only people who were already wealthy would pursue it.

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