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[–] 112 points 2 months ago (14 children)

Rocinante and the only reason I know is because of The Expanse.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    One of my favorite fan theories is that the authors did not name the ship after the horse from don quixote directly. There is a Rush song called Cygnus X-1 that's basically a space opera and the ship in that song is called the Rocinate, and one of the authors of The Expanse is a huge rush fan. So in my mind that is where the ships name comes from.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    Wasn't the expanse loosely based on a play by post RPG game the author was running? Maybe the name came from that? Isn't that also why Shed was killed off, the player couldn't play anymore.

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  • [–] 96 points 2 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 76 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I only know this because of The Expanse.

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  • [–] 61 points 2 months ago (17 children)

    only remember the name because of The Expanse

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (16 children)

    But if you pronounce it like the show, every Spanish speaker has the right to whoop your ass just once

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (7 children)

    when i moved to austin and everyone was pronouncing guadalupe "guadaloop" and looking at me funny for pronouncing it guadalupe, i got murder eyes for like a month.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    I’m going to need reports on how you say Koenig and Mueller too. As you are quite aware, moving to Austin requires multi-factor identification. /s

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    the german way unless it's an american name, in which case i gotta get damn verification

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    I’m sorry sir, but you’re going to have to move. /s

    Kay-nig
    Muh-ler
    Guada-loop

    They’re old codes, but they still check out.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    i did move, i've been back in california for over a decade

    i lived in a since-gentrified apartment complex on may-ner down from the amy's

    like fuck texas, that one was English

    and i refuse to pronounce it Kaynig. Kenig is the furthest i'll go

    you have a favorite out in Lockhart?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Thank you for visiting Austin, the live music capital of the world. We apologize if the rest of Texas disturbed you during your stay, and we thank you for your patience with this matter as we are still researching dimensional translocation possibilities. As you are a valued Californian, we would like to ask you to please take 5 minutes out of your day to go online and recall all the robotaxi’s y’all sent us. Keep it weird, and come back soon.

    Come back soon is an invitation for a vacation not to exceed two weeks. Buying real estate to move your podcast offices to is strictly prohibited. Fans of Joe Rogan’s comedy are discouraged to apply.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    If that principle applied throughout history, anglophones would have evolved either an armored ass or no ass at all. I believe they are pathologically incapable of grasping the phonology of foreign languages. Just ask any native English speaker the name of the Soviet Union's general secretary that succeeded Stalin and preceded Brezhnev... realistically, nine out of ten will have no idea, and the remaining one will say he was some "cruise chef".

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    As a linguaphile, I've always tried to pronounce words from other languages as correctly as possible. People tend to think that makes me weird.

    Xenophobes think I'm being a snob, and "inclusive" people think I'm mocking the language or making some offensive joke or something. Literally the only people who don't get upset about it are the ones who speak whatever language it is.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Literally the only people who don’t get upset about it are the ones who speak whatever language it is.

    It depends on the exact word and context, like if you go to Japan and say Hay mmmburrrgurrrr をいただきたいです, it sounds so bad.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I'm trying to figure out what that's even supposed to say. "Mmmburrrgurrrr" doesn't sound like any japanese words I know.

    "Hay" I'm guessing is supposed to be "Hai," although if you pronounce it like "hay" then you're going to stand out as an ignorant foreigner.

    As for 「おいただきたいです」、well that's just phrased awkwardly. It sounds too formal and almost mocking. The issue isn't pronouncing it correctly. It's like saying 「申しわけありません」 when 「ごめんなさい」 would do.

    My point wasn't about phrasing things weird or being too formal, it was about pronunciation. Like saying 「ありがとうございます」 instead of "uhragado guhzaimasoo"

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    It's over-emphasizing the non-japanese sounds in "hamburger"; the point is that there are rules for loan words in any language and it sounds awkward if you break them.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Oh, I thought we were talking about anglophones pronouncing non-english words, not the other way around.

    Japanese gets a pass on its loanwords because the language doesn't have the letters to pronounce a lot of words from other languages. It does the best it can. I don't know many English speakers who pronounce Llewellyn the Welsh way...

    But if you're ordering a hamburger in Japan, there's probably already something wrong with you anyway. Unless it's at Gasto. In that case, enjoy your ハンバーグ.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Step 1: Seek to prove that anglophones can’t pronounce foreign words.

    Step 2: Ask a history question that has less to do with pronunciation than it does with an awareness of political events that happened on the other side of the globe, likely before the respondent was born.

    Step 3: Ignore that even the people who were alive in that time were likely only getting their pronunciation from whoever was anchoring the news and may be blameless for only hearing an incorrect pronunciation.

    Step 4: Feel smug, I guess.

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  • [–] 172 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    That's a shitty question though. Totally irrelevant to the meat of the story, and definitely not a proof someone read the whole thing and thought about it.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Questions like that are good to know if somebody read the thing. You don't get details in resumes.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    No, it isn't.

    Most people will not retain the name of an animal that doesn't speak. The horse has zero impact on the story, and only serves as a piece of Quixote' personality signifiers

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I would say Rocinante helps early in the story, with understanding the depth of Quixote's delusion.

    Whilst in reality Rocinante is an old workhorse; in the delusion of Don Quixote, Rocinante is a grand charger fit for a knight of the highest order.

    Helping to illustrate the core of the story; Don Quixote is applying a veneer of importance and significance over the top of reality. Rocinante is a reflection of the Don himself.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I agree with the role Rocinante plays for sure.

    I just don't think that makes the name of the horse a good question. It's like asking the name of John Wick's dog. The whole movie hinges on the dog, but what name it has is irrelevant.

    The point of reading something like Don Quixote isn't the names. Even Pancho's name is barely important. Hell, I'd even argue that the fact we're talking about Don Quixote rather than Alonso Quixano even illustrates that names aren't exactly the prime bit of information that matters.

    Now, it is hard to discuss the story without factoring in name changes. Aldonza/Dulcinea in specific is maybe the biggest symbol of what the Don is experiencing, and the underlying theme of the story. But the specific names? It's just a bad question for a high school English teacher to ask a student.

    My reasoning is that, no matter what else is retained, names only serve as a point of reference in damn near all literature. When an early exposure to old school, classical literature is happening, the student is going to already be learning three or four things at once, and memorizing the name of a non dialogue character doesn't serve do achieve that learning, or even test how much that student retained.

    You've got them trying to learn how to read critically, how to read archaic styles, how to retain important factors, and how to express what they've picked up. The name of an animal that's essentially stage dressing akin to the sword or armor? That's entirely the wrong question.

    What would be a good one is, "what does Quixote's horse symbolize?" Or even, "what do you think about his horse?". Both would get the student thinking rather than trying to just pull up a word that's arbitrary.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    What would be a good one is, “what does Quixote’s horse symbolize?” Or even, “what do you think about his horse?”. Both would get the student thinking rather than trying to just pull up a word that’s arbitrary.

    That is a great point.

    Significantly better questions; than a name.

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  • [–] 31 points 2 months ago

    Same experience with a really old German book. He wanted to know the color of the hat one of the side characters was wearing. I had no clue, after investing so much time into trying to understand it. That kinda made me give up - why try to participate when the outcome is the same as if I didn't?

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  • [–] 26 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Feel this in my bones. I enjoy reading books, but they go down the memory hole fast for me, especially names.

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    [–] 22 points 2 months ago

    Anon should be disappointed in their teacher, honestly.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The names of the 3 musketeers regularly come up in crosswords and no matter how many times I see it I can't remember one of the 4. There's Porthos, Athos, and I believe D'Artagnan was the one who joined later. Doesn't help that their names sound vaguely like the 3 fates: Atropos, Clotho, and Lachesis.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Aramis is the one you’re missing, and he’s also the one I always forget. I can remember porthos and athos because they sound similar, and d’artagnan was the name of the company my old job used for some supplies, but Aramis is too easy a name to forget.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Maybe both of you guys issue is that you think of Porthos first, Athos, Porthos, Aramis is burned in to my mind, never read any book about musketeers either and I am terrible with names

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  • [–] 32 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I read the book about a year ago and I recently I was trying to remember the name of the horse for some reason. I also completely blanked on it, and it took me a few minutes.

    I'm pretty terrible at remembering details like that. My brain just stores things relatively, like 'the main character's brother', even after reading his name a hundred times.

    Anon should have just told his teacher that the horse (rocinante) is nothing compared to Sancho's she-ass.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I never remember the author's name. I have consistently gotten it wrong in nearly every quiz. Lol

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Everyone knows him as Cervantes, even though his full name is Miguel de Cervantes. I live in Castilla-La Mancha and everywhere is Quijote.. I even know a lady called Dulcinea.. not a common name btw.

    Edit. Just read this and sorry might have come across overly pedantic. I just got up and my brain is still toast.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago (18 children)

    For me, the problem with "Rocinante" is I don't know how to pronounce it. So, while reading, I'd skip past it, recognizing that it's the horse, but not parsing it as a word.

    If asked that question, I'd need to explain that, but I'd stumble over the word.

    If a book has too many oddly (to me) spelled names, I'll skip it for this reason. Apostrophes in the middle and no vowels, and I'm not going to read your book.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (15 children)

    Ro Cin An Te

    Roh sin ahn the

    Rocinante

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    Why would you make it a 'th' at the end??

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (6 children)

    The weird 'th' handling of 'c' isn't just a Catalan thing? Is that all of Spain? I know I'm biased as a North American, but preference for Mexican Spanish.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I have no idea about 'c' becoming 'th'. I was referring to the 't' at the end that the above comment made 'the' when breaking it down, which they have mentioned in a reply was an auto-correct error.

    The Spanish I know is not generally NA influenced.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Thin, not sin.

    Ro as in rod. Thin as in, well, thin. An as in ant. Te as in tent.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    So you are saying it's raa - thin - an - teh??

    That's wild... I'm convinced you are not pronouncing 'ant' or 'tent' "correctly" for those to be your suggestions...

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    Hm... Ro as in Ross..? The rest is the correct pronunciation, yes.

    Maybe, I don't know... an as in anvil and te as in tenant..? English, being several unrelated languages in a trenchcoat, can be a bit weird, and pronunciation varies excessively with dialects...

    The vowels in Castilian (aka Spanish outside of Spain and other Castilian speaking countries) are very simple, five vowels, five sounds, pronounced more or less as they would have been in Latin.

    C is pronounced like a k or a hard z, never as an s (except in some dialects).

    Rocinante. From rocín and antes, for he was a rocín (old horse) before being Quijote's steed (also during, but the old man wasn't all there).

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago*

    For me, the problem with “Rocinante” is I don’t know how to pronounce it.

    If you're using a European language, you're pronouncing it correctly, or close enough.

    If your only contact with English is the written word, I guess it depends on what languages you're familiar with. If you're using AI / translation software, just ask it to read it to you. Maybe it'll get it right. Or not. Who can tell with those things.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

    Wasn't it a donkey? I think it was named Rocinante? Idk, I read it like 16 years ago.

    Edit post-Wikipedia: it was a workhorse, not a donkey, but I nailed the name. I've wondered in the past if Geralt's horse Roach in The Witcher was a nod to Rocinante

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I for some reason thought Don Quixote rode a donkey too... Where'd that come from?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Kind of, maybe? But probably not.

    In the original, Geralt's horse's name is "Płotka" - has technically the same meaning as Roach (a small, cheap kind of fish), but the term is also sometimes used for easy, inconsequential and irrelevant things.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Tbh I don't remember more than 2 character names per story. If a chapter contains more than two actors then I am totally confused who those persons were and their relationships and such...

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    This is why I greatly appreciated how in This Is How You Lose the Time War, there are only two characters that matter and their names are Red and Blue

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I read that book. I don't remember a single thing about it.

    I still recommend it, albeit begrudgingly, to people who might like it. I think it was better than I received it. Maybe I shouldn't have just listened to the audiobook, but rather, read it at my own pace and re-read certain paragraphs, rather than having them read to me one after the other. Because there was something more in that text. Some books are better in audio, and some are better in text. I can't imagine an audiobook exists of House of Leaves, but it wouldn't surprise me. So, maybe one day I'll go back and actually read This is How You Lose the Time War, because it probably deserved more attention paid to it, and it probably deserves a second look.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Rocinante! Can’t believe I remembered that. That book is a hoot.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    I watched an entire movie once where they didn't give protagonist a name. Realized about a week later in shower and had to look up to confirm.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    horsey mchorseyton

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    Horsey McHorseface

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago
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