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[–] 110 points 2 months ago (28 children)

Never forget that our government allowed the actual perps leave the country and then claimed someone else did the deed so they could invade another country for oil. Also - gave them an excuse to take away our freedoms through security theater.

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  • [+] -21 points 2 months ago (27 children)
  • [+] -14 points 2 months ago (26 children)

    AI response, but it looks pretty solid...

    The post‑9/11 response in the United States did not abolish the Bill of Rights, but it shifted the balance toward government surveillance, secrecy, detention, and border control—often reducing privacy, due-process protections, and freedom from discriminatory scrutiny. Many powers were created or broadened through the USA PATRIOT Act, passed October 26, 2001, and later executive programs and immigration policies. ala

    Privacy and Fourth Amendment protections

    The largest practical loss was a weaker expectation that the government needed individualized, fact-based suspicion before collecting information or monitoring communications.

    • The PATRIOT Act expanded authorities for monitoring telephone and internet communications, accessing stored communications, and obtaining records such as banking and credit information. ala
    • Authorities could seek certain business records—including potentially library, bookstore, financial, medical, and internet-related records—under standards critics argued were below traditional criminal probable cause and with limited meaningful judicial review. aclu
    • “Roving” wiretaps made it easier to follow a person across changing devices or accounts rather than tying surveillance to one named phone line or device. This was designed for counterterrorism but increased the possibility of incidental collection involving people not suspected of wrongdoing.
    • “Sneak-and-peek” search powers allowed delayed notice of some searches: agents could enter, search, and sometimes seize property before telling the target. The principle affected was the normal expectation of prompt notice and the ability to challenge a search quickly. aclu

    A later reform, the USA FREEDOM Act of 2015, prohibited bulk collection under PATRIOT Act Section 215 and added some transparency and court-review mechanisms—an acknowledgment that earlier authorities had permitted collection at an overly broad scale. judiciary.house

    Due process and detention

    For noncitizens especially, post‑9/11 policy weakened the practical protection against being detained without prompt charges and a meaningful opportunity to contest the detention.

    • The government asserted broad authority to detain certain people designated “enemy combatants,” including arguments for detention without ordinary criminal charges or a conventional criminal trial.
    • Immigration-related changes and counterterrorism policy enabled lengthy detention of noncitizens suspected of terrorism-related activity, sometimes under conditions of secrecy or with restricted access to the normal procedural safeguards available in standard criminal cases. aclu
    • At Guantánamo Bay and in related military-detention practices, detainees faced years of litigation over whether they could challenge their confinement through habeas corpus—the fundamental right to ask a court to review whether the government is lawfully holding someone.

    The important distinction is that these restrictions were most severe for foreign nationals and people accused of links to terrorism. But legal precedents and government claims of executive power also raised broader concerns about how much judicial oversight could be bypassed in a declared national-security emergency.

    Equality, religious freedom, and movement

    Muslim, Arab, South Asian, Sikh, and immigrant communities bore a disproportionate share of the social and governmental consequences.

    • Federal investigations, immigration enforcement, watchlisting, and intelligence collection focused heavily on people from Muslim-majority countries or those perceived to be Muslim.
    • The result was a reduced practical freedom to travel without extra scrutiny, live free of government suspicion based on identity or association, and participate in civic life without fear that ordinary religious, charitable, or political activity could be interpreted as a security concern.
    • Programs that tracked foreign students and expanded scrutiny of immigrants created additional monitoring and administrative burdens on foreign nationals. ebsco
    • Airport security also became much more intrusive for everyone: searches, identity checks, limits on what could be carried aboard, no-fly and watch lists, and more extensive screening became normal conditions of air travel. These measures did not remove the right to travel outright, but made its exercise more conditional and surveilled.

    Speech, association, and secrecy

    Some freedoms were affected indirectly, through the risk or perception of surveillance rather than a direct legal ban.

    • When people believe their calls, emails, web activity, library use, donations, or organizational affiliations can be monitored, they may avoid controversial reading, political advocacy, religious association, or communication. This is often called a chilling effect on speech and association.
    • National Security Letters could compel businesses to provide certain customer information while imposing nondisclosure (“gag”) requirements. Later reform allowed challenges and required review of whether such orders remained necessary. judiciary.house
    • Secrecy around surveillance programs, watch-listing decisions, intelligence-court proceedings, and detention made it harder for affected people and the public to know what government agencies were doing, identify errors, or contest them.
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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Well that mess of text just derailed the whole conversation. Thanks? I guess?

    Someone want to put it into an AI to summarize so we can really jump down this hole?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    derailed the whole conversation

    What conversation? A bunch of people with a hard-on for LLMs got distracted and hijacked the thread for their crusade.

    I know that reading and learning can be difficult, but you should really give it a try, sometime.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (22 children)
  • [+] -10 points 2 months ago* (21 children)

    I did read it. Don't be such a fucking fool... You're the new anti-vaxxer movement.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago* (15 children)

    Don't complain when people don't bother to read something you didn't bother to write

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    I will complain about people who choose to be really fucking stupid.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    Look, we can also ask an LLM just like you did, we're fully capable of that. But this is a forum for humans. That's why it's expected that everyone write their own posts.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    we can also ask an LLM just like you did

    It's actually a pretty good starting place that more people should consider. The risk is that many of you are incapable of reading the output and making an educated assessment of whether what was returned is good information or actual slop. Both are possible outcome.

    But this is a forum for humans.

    Which is why I responded in the first place with a quick compilation widely available information and why I reviewed what was returned. You just have a very uninformed and irrational hatred of LLM just like anti-vaxxers have a very uninformed and irrational hatred of vaccines.

    That’s why it’s expected that everyone write their own posts.

    Oh fuck off with that... do I have to write it in cursive on college ruled notebook paper and scan it in and post it, too? Do you say the same thing to people who post wikipedia links? Do you say the same thing to people who post links to studies?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    You're going way too far and jumping to conclusions that are frankly quite unhinged. I have very little desire to engage with this because you're raging, but just to be clear I use LLMs for many tasks and I think they're a great tool.

    However, you're misusing it by having it write an essay for a forum post, and I'm pretty confident that it's not received well by pretty much anyone else either. Literally anyone on here can easily produce what you posted by prompting any free LLM - so what value exactly are you adding here?

    Posting links to good sources is always welcome. Pasting excerpts from websites or books, with citation, is great. You can ask an LLM to help you ground your post in facts with sources, or clean up your writing, fine. But yeah, I don't think it's a huge ask to expect users to contribute their own thoughts on a forum. I'm interested in what you have to say, and I won't apologize for that.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    write an essay

    It was a simple and well written list that answered the question that was asked. What fucking difference would it have made if I created the bulleted list myself if it said essentially the same thing. Are you pissed off at LLM or that I somehow 'cheated' and only spent a minute to produce the list instead of 15? What exactly is your problem with it?

    I’m interested in what you have to say,

    What I had to say is that 9/11 resulted in security theater and our freedoms being infringed upon. There was a request for examples. I provided said list. That it didn't come just from me somehow irrationally pisses you off. That's a "you problem", not a "me problem".

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    No, I just think you made a low-value contribution. I am not angry. I don't want to argue about it further.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Ah... so you're ready to go get bent out of shape that someone would dare make (and review) a simple list created by LLM in the guise that you want to see people participate, but when they participate you bail out with "I'm not really interested."

    Grow up.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    You're the only one getting bent out of shape here.

    Get a hold of yourself, it's embarrassing 😂

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    You’re the only one getting bent out of shape here.

    Ah... so you're only trolling.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    First off: We're in a shitpost community.

    Secondly: You're the one crashing out, swearing, and namecalling. Then you tell people to grow up?

    Of course you'll be made fun of.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    And we'll complain about sloperators polluting the Internet.

    Besides, you couldn't even bother to write the comment yourself. I wonder who is stupid.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    If I wanted Claude or Jippity's answer I'd ask them myself.

    Posting unfiltered slop makes you just as useful as people who post "let me Google that for you" links, except LMGTFY was usually funny and context appropriate.

    You're the new "measles party" movement.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    If I wanted Claude or Jippity’s answer I’d ask them myself.

    You could actually do everyone a favor by doing that. Do you lack the reading and comprehension skills to know if you're getting something back that is suspect? If you had actually done that, then nobody would have to compile the well known and commonly available information for you.

    Posting unfiltered slop

    Ah, but it wasn't unfiltered and, in this case, wasn't slop.

    You’re the new “measles party” movement

    Tell me you don't understand metaphors without telling me you don't understand metaphors...

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    me when I value people using clankers over their head

    Slop is slop even if you add cinnamon.

    Additionally, I didn't ask you to compile anything 🙂

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  • [–] 52 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    I never forget that the Epstein files haven't been released..

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  • [+] 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 37 points 2 months ago
    [–] 36 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I never forget that the US gov created Al Qaeda by indiscriminately blowing up people in the Middle-East, and some of the murdered were friends & family of the three founders of the group. Cause and effect. If my friends and family get bombed for existing I'd also become a vengeful terrorist who spends a decade growing more powerful by connecting with other victims of state murder. I just like to think I'd be able to retaliate on the ones responsible and there to be no innocent casualties.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    ...... The US created Al Qaeda by giving them weapons to fight the Russians for them, then abandoning them when they won at massive personal cost..... They literally armed and funded Osama Bin Laden through Pakistan... That part isn't even a conspiracy theory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden

    The only "alleged" part is that the CIA didn't DIRECTLY fund bin Laden.... Only through Pakistan's ISI (CIA equivalent)..

    Like I get the indirect creating your enemies through causing suffering and destruction in other nations. Like that's valid for ISIS for example. But Al Qaida literally wouldn't have existed without American money.

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  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I never forget how they also could have hit trump tower.

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  • [–] 52 points 2 months ago

    I instead remember the Chilean coup of 9/11 1973, where Augusto Pinochet overthrew the democratically elected socialist government of Chile with the support of the USA.

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  • [–] 51 points 2 months ago

    I will never forget that the CIA trained Bin Laden.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago*

    How could I forget...it marked the final straw to never ever visit this country, despite its tons of things I'd die to see (grand canyon for one).

    It was and is an awesome "excuse" to tighten "security" and to cut freedom and rights for its people. And the wars it allowed...what a bliss!

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    "Patriot" act is still around

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago
    [–] 17 points 2 months ago

    Knock knock who’s there 9/11 9/11 who

    You said you’d never forget

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    I was thinking about never forgetting the Israeli way and doing another one. Perhaps on my weak impoverished neighbour.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    usa government discovered the funders (Saudi)then decided to look the other way

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    That it was the nth time US meddled in near-east politics and got burned? And the nth time they sponsored a radical group that then got out of hand? And US learned nothing from it.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago
    [–] 28 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Hot take incoming.

    Turns out, Bin Laden was right, we should have not become so deeply invested in the middle east like we have and should have left it. Militarily and essentially colonialism of territory for oil.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Not only was he right, but Bin Laden won, even if it killed him. The attack on 9/11 pulled out all the stops on ignorance, xenophobia, evangelicals in politics, the surveillance State, right-wing nationalism, and so much more. We wasted trillions of dollars on wars.

    The attack was a slow burn that took 20 years to collapse an “empire.”

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    The oil is just a nice bonus. What really drives the US wars are the weapons and ammunition sales

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Ding ding ding! People say the US wastes money on defense; it doesn't. The cost is the point. The MIC is just a fat fuckin straw for sucking up money into publicly traded companies, I.e. the stock market.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The lessons learned during the second world war, I will never forget. Unfortunately, everybody else has seemed to have forgotten.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It is precisely why we are here at this point in time.

    Watched it unfold over the past 15 years as my grandparents generation passed into memory - their actual experiences of WWII and the warnings for our country - and it's now only in our memories of them and their stories.. and it's scary as fuck to see the kids - like at that kickboxing fight in Orlando that had 20-something idiots unfurling a Nazi flag.

    Stupid fucks.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Yup, for me a tad closer. My dad and his 2 brothers fought in WWII as pilots. My mother was conscripted to work for the town mayor in her hometown in England. Who would of thought that a Canadian from up north and a lady from England would meet up. I would not be here without them. Heard all the tales straight from the horses mouth so to speak for decades. What is going on now is beyond short circuiting for me.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Friends and I always send memes in the group chat. They said never forget. They didn't tell us how.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    As a more serious comment if you've never sat down and watched a 9/11 in real time dashboard video, I highly recommend it, very fascinating.

    https://youtu.be/zx8_Pumdkpg

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    I'll never forget the lies about WMD to justify killing 1 million Iraqis in an imperialist conquest of oil.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I was ankle deel in blood and bones looking for my brother goddammit!

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Never forgetti mom's spaghetti

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Never forghetti

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    I never believed in any of the conspiracy theories around this.

    But now with everything out about how much Israel controls everything in the U.S.

    It's made me reconsider this event as an IDF false flag operation.

    Im not saying I believe it fully. I'm saying I'm now considering it a possibility.

    As a regular citizen, I just don't think I have access to, nor an expert understanding of the evidence to be able to make any solid conclusions.

    I'm just saying it does follow their pattern of behavior. And it sure did benefit them immensely.

    This event is a large factor in the current war with Iran and tensions/hostility with Muslim states in the Middle East.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    There are plenty of conspiracy theories. There is also is a undeniable conspiracy. This is that the US used the events of 9/11 to expand a war on people who had nothing to do with it and commit to murdering and torturing innocents.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    I think we should never be forgetful for those art students that flew in from ———- to help put exhibits in a certain or certain floors of the tower

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    I remember the realization that the terrorists won. Our political leaders gave us fear and security theater. We started two wars of waste that make more enemies than we killed. We handed out most reactionary politicians and institutions the Patriot Act and other licenses to abuse and subvert democracy. I tell conspiracy theorists that the government didn’t do 9/11, they just exploited the hell out of it.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    Block party or festival like every year.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Sam and Frodo, and a bunch of fucking trees did 9/11

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    My mum's birthday. Was a pretty awkward party in 2001, but what can you do?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    Celebrate my sister's birthday because I mixed up the month and day again. Supposed to be 11/9 but I keep thinking it's 9/11.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I'm going to go to a rifle range and harass people that don't know how to shoot.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    My friends and I are throwing a 9/11 rave in the woods. We're trying to figure out how to do a falling twin towers art piece.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    My instacart shopper’s name was Osama

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I'm never going to forget when Optimus Prime died.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    strangely US made such a big deal out of it because it happened only once and enver again, while they do this on the daily in the ME.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    I will never forget how Osama bin Laden went on to host a game show

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    there are people throwing raves on 9-11 in my city, you can tell you're getting old when the most tragic event of your childhood is now a party day

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    I'll never forget how my daughters Kindergarten teachers brought a TV in to the room and my daughter watched people fall to their death at five years of age.

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  • [+] -13 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    This gif seems in bad taste. Its like its celebrating the attack, rather than concentrating on those who perished and the damage done.

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