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[–] 61 points 2 months ago (3 children)

During my first "job," I was too young to be legally employed, so I volunteered at a library with my mom. Initially I worked in one of the back rooms, hidden from the public, helping to scan and sort books put in the return bins. (I discovered several great books by seeing them come back; among them were Dogsbody, Lovely Bones, and Me Talk Pretty One Day. Those are listed alphabetically by title and that wasn't even by design!)

After I volunteered long enough, I was deemed sufficiently experienced to put books on the shelves in the stacks. I was titled a "page" and proudly announced that while attending a LAN party. One of the other attendees of said party said "and if you do that long enough maybe you'll become a full book!" I laughed quite heartily.

If you've never read anything else I wrote here, the post above will probably tell you everything you could possibly want to know about me.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    Man, my first real job was at the library as a student page. That job fucking rocked so much and I wish I could have stayed there forever.

    I got to shelve books, play with microfilm and microfiche, and listen to my CDs all day. It was the best job ever.

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  • [+] 47 points 2 months ago (29 children)
  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (25 children)

    The fuck you need a master's for? The dewy decimal system ain't that hard. 🤨

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (23 children)

    Because most people who work at the library aren't librarians. Librarians maintain and manage a collection, set up the database, etc etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (22 children)

    You certainly don't need a masters just to do that.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    I've been lobbying my office for a person with a Library Sciences degree to help manage our massive archive of Sharepoint files.

    "Haha, how hard could it be?" is the sort of thing that gets you stuck with a multi-year long stint in Library Hell. I can say this from personal experience.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 months ago (18 children)

    Managing a collection is not a data-entry job, it requires you to know about stuff. Which book on, say, the middle-saharan 17th century tribes do you get, and which ones don't you get? Is the new one better than the old one? Which old works are to be digitized and which ones aren't?

    Also included is actually running the library itself, helping people use it (from little bobby who wants that book about a mole who wants to know who pooped on its head, to a PhD student researching said 17th century tribes and what art they produced). It includes copyright law, information ethics, conservation, etc etc etc.

    It's really much more broad than "Someone who works at the local library"

    Source: me, someone who once worked at the local library, and seriously considered doing it for a living... untill I saw the effort required and the pay.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Your library experience was very different from mine. We mostly just told people how to sign up for the wait list for 50 Shades of gray, what programs we did for the kids, and putting away the books everyone left everywhere.

    The pay is what scared me away. Branch Manager, highest position I interacted with, couldn't afford their own transportation, and was going through their second green card marriage for money because they were desperate. Had 2 Masters.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    A lot of jobs are easy on a day-to-day basis, but get hard every once in a while when some edge case comes up and you've gotta have a breadth of background knowledge of the field to handle it effectively. It's why AI seems so useful to middle managers who don't realize that edge cases exist; their employees can handle them without issue, but AI spits out total garbage and calls it done. I'd imagine librarians are indeed dealing with people looking for the latest fad book more often than not, but they still have to be prepared for the person coming in wanting to know all about insect phylogeny.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (15 children)

    How would you choose which book to get on middle-saharan 17th century tribes anyway? You can't know about everything. You'd just have to ask a bunch of experts in the field, right?

    Edit: Everyone chill, I wasn't dissing the previous comment, I was just curious. I know that running a library needs a degree. But I didn't know the responsibility of expanding collection fell on the one maintaining the library (excluding requests from users). I thought maybe they at most subscribe to a list of award winners or top cited books or something.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Research skills that you acquire during your master's (incl. but not limited to, talking to other experts)

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    You can talk with other experts without having master's

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    You seem to be pointing out that formal education isn't needed to learn something. That's obviously true. The person you're responding to seems to be saying that being a librarian is a job that requires a nontrivial amount of learning. That learning is on the level of something like a masters degree. This is also true

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    And we both are intrigued by what exactly in librarian work warrants a masters degree.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Let me chime in with a simple question: what temperature and humidity should books be stored at? How many copies of one book do we need to have in a university library to last for ten years? Do we rotate books on the shelves with ones in a storing room elsewhere and if yes, then on what schedule? How do we keep track of what books are where and need what? How do we arrange everything that needs to be done? How is keeping a library of 1k books different from 100k books? How to get prepared for expansion of library? Etc. etc. etc. None of those is a trivial matter

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    Sure, you can ask 10 experts, and get 11 opinions.

    Researching books, authors, subjects, and determining which ones are appropriate and which ones aren't is complex stuff.

    You would, for example, research the authors prior publishing history of books and journal articles, read peer reviews of their articles, check their references, research the history of the authors of their references ECT to build an idea of what sort of author you're dealing with. Do they know their stuff, or are they just a book mill? Is any of the subject matter contradictory, controversial, out of date, or incomplete. Repeat for 30 books on the same subject to find the most comprehensive work for your collection.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Just to check - do you know that they do this, or do you think that's the way it's best done? - Because that is a lot of work and you'd need a lot of librarians

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    That's how it ought to be done in academic libraries. It does take a lot of librarians. You have a librarian for each subject area, which can be pretty granular depending on the size/budget of the library. My academic library has a business librarian who focuses on acquiring and weeding the business section. She has an undergrad degree in something businessy and an MSLis.

    Now, my academic library has been subject to funding cuts and so we don't do everything we ought to do, especially in areas that aren't major majors at our school, which is frustrating AF. We rely more on professors suggesting acquisitions.

    Public libraries have a broader remit, so often can go with purchasing what's requested by their patrons and what's on lists of good new books. They still have to know their subject matter to weed properly, especially in the nonfiction areas. Fiction tends to be weeded based on condition and circulation stats, especially in public libraries. (weeding is getting rid of books that no longer suit the collection. Easy examples: children's book that was dropped in the mud. children's book that still lists Pluto as a planet).

    Oh! As a librarian, you can also get pre-release versions of books to evaluate for your library. It's a nice perk to read things months before it comes out. (you have to request them from the publisher, but publishers like sending these to librarians because librarians buy lots of books and talk to other people that buy lots of books)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Wow, I feel that's something we should bring back. Professors many a times get too specialized. A librarian taking care of a broad category would bring balance. Though I suppose having more than 100~200 such libraries in an economy the size of US or EU feels excessive too.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    At my college, at least, we're very undergrad-focused. So the professors tend to request things that are good for those sorts of classes. There's about 3,700 academic libraries in the USA.

    We also subscribe to some large collections of ebooks, which we don't individually curate. We have the ability to add on individual books to our ebook collection, but most come in, say, the EBSCOhost eBooks Academic Subscription Collection. I have Opinions about ebooks vs physical books in a library setting (mostly, I don't like renting books and prefer something a publisher can't take away on a whim). But ebooks sure are convenient for students, especially if they're taking classes remotely. COVID was a push towards ebooks.

    Mini rant: our physical book collection needs weeding, but we don't have the budget we'd like for new books. Whenever I pull together a display for, say, LGBTQ Pride, I have to decide whether to include a copy of "Poetry of Sappho" from the 1930s that looks like it's from the 1930s[derogatory]--no dust cover, just blue paperboard. No young adult's going to walk by a worn blue rectangle and say "yes, I want to pick that up and read it".

    I want to put together an attractive display and a lot of my options are ugly.

    And weeding's complicated, too. You can't just say "oh, this is 30 years old, get rid of it". That tends to work in Science/Tech/Medicine, but a 30-year-old biography might be the only one written on a person. Is there a newer one we should get? Is the older one bad for some irredeemable way, or is it bad in an interesting way? (example: written by someone super biased in favor of the subject, but the author's biases are intriguing, or they're the only biographer to actually talk to the subject, that sort of thing)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    part of librarianship is knowing how to evaluate various books to determine if they're worth acquiring for the collection. So, you'd look at book reviews by experts, ask the professor that teaches that subject if there's anything they'd suggest. You research the author, find out if they're involved in any scandals w.r.t. their research, if they have undisclosed conflicts of interest, what have you.

    Yes, that sounds trivial, but there's a lot of things that go into it. Librarianship is mostly knowing how to find, store, and make available information.

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  • [+] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Yes, but you can work in a library without being a librarian. Check out code4lib. It's a (free online) techie conference with associated slack channel, and it's for folks that, roughly, code for libraries. Tbh, I think the techie route to working in a library is easier than the master's degree. Source: engineering undergrad, have my mslis, work in a library, current position doesn't require an mslis.

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    [–] 87 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    Or: is there a job… where I can just live my life? Like, spend time with friends and doing hobbies and still getting paid?

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  • [–] 79 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    You mean... you want to live your life and not add value to someone else's wallet?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago*

    That's just called "being rich." Work duties do include disenfranchizing the poor, with quarterly reviews by peers in the Illuminati though.

    So not quite as chill as you might hope from "having no logical fears or needs".

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  • [–] 40 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Me at 46: I want to dismantle the machinery that makes trillionaires.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I found a nice quiet job in a lab that’s like this. No one fucks with me, some days I’m completely by myself, but the one drawback I’ve discovered is I find myself getting stuck in my own head a lot. Sometimes I have to go find something or someone to distract me.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Yeah, being alone on the job is not necesarily great. I have worked in a small data center for a large company for like 15 years now. I am the only one in the building many days but it gets quite lonely and boring.

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I had the job shelving books. I'd show up in a button-up shirt and slacks and I could shove all day with no problem at all. No one would bother me. I'd show up in ripped jeans, a Metallica t-shirt, and 4 years since my last haircut and people would ask me for help every moment of the day. Libraries are weird.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Good example of outfits sending signals.

    Slacks and a button-up probably made you look like management just out picking up slack, and people subconsciously left you alone - "oh, they're probably really busy with management stuff and also had to go shelve books.. I'll leave them alone"

    Casual clothes in contrast would have signalled "worker" - "I'll just go ask that person, it's not like they're doing anything important, they're just shelving books!"

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  • [–] 26 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Buddy of mine was a night janitor during college. I had to help him a few times, and it wasn't a bad gig, run around and vacuum, mop some stuff, take out the trash. Dude listened to music the whole time and basically never saw anyone. Sometimes I kinda want to quit doing software just to do night janitoring.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    My bro is a dishie and never changed jobs once. I always used to try and push him to study or get into a career and would bang on about having a 'respectable job' - now im fantasising about listening to music while washing dishes all day

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Why did you need to help him?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    He was one of 2 people that would clean like 4 buildings. Sometimes the other person wouldn't show up (or one time his boss was arrested and given 22 years) and sometimes he'd call me to be the other janitor (sometimes he'd just do the job solo and keep the extra cash).

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    I work in a hospital in a lab where I look at small pieces of the human body through a microscope in a quiet office where people apologize for interrupting me. It’s heaven

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    knockknockknock

    Sorry to bother you…

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    me at 50 after the latest round of cutbacks and layoffs, "are there still jobs that will allow me to pay my bills?"

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago*

    I had a 25-year career as a programmer, ending up making nearly $200K a year. Now I'm a school bus driver making about $30K, although fortunately that also includes subsidized (and really good) health insurance. I'm also fortunate because I already own a small house outright and was able to save a good bit when I was making good money. I quit programming (read: was laid off) just before the AI "revolution" so I'm thankful that I've missed all that bullshit.

    Maybe I'll be able to get back into coding after all the AI slop fails catastrophically and there's nobody left in the industry who still knows how to actually code, but I don't have my hopes up for that. Corporate bullshit is simply too strong for catastrophic failure to be a real problem.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe I'm still too young. Early 30's and asking a lot of questions about "why did we have a restructuring and layoffs if we had a record year for financials?" Not getting any answers of course, but I sure am getting a lot of information. Also getting to be the voice of all my coworkers. Literally all of them. We all hate it.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Me after surviving the layoffs, great all my bosses are gone it's going to be months if not an entire year before they notice me again. Time to do the bare minimum!

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    My company got purchased and then the purchasing company got purchased by a huge west coast tech giant. Everybody from the original company got reassigned to new teams and we all ended up with new bosses who had no idea who we were or why we were even there. I had a very enjoyable six months "working" from home doing absolutely nothing before I was laid off. I even got a severance package about equivalent to a year's salary for the first (and presumably last) time in my career.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago

    Never wanted to climb the ladder, but it was the only way I could really get better pay.

    The higher I go, the more I can't stand the conversations. Being straightforward is a career killer. Competing with folks that talk big without knowledge, knowing I need to carefully balance working with them while making sure my ass is documented and covered for any blame when they screw up and want to throw someone under the bus.

    I have generally still loved talking to the "grunts" and customers. People who have real problems and doing real stuff without so much office politic crap going on. Not people trying to write blog posts to try to sound smart without actually doing anything or actually knowing the material.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    I dunno I thought I wanted this and took a job at a datacenter

    Some days I don't even interact with another human

    5 years into this and it's completely killed my social skills and therefore social life, im thinking about moving on for this reason actually

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Off topic but out of curiosity, how many people actually work in a data center? I've always wanted to work in one but got the impression that there are only a small number of people, maybe a dozen or so, dedicated to keeping the hardware running.

    But hearing how it's affected you makes me think it might not be the best choice for me. I worked from home for about 5 years up to and during COVID, and honestly can relate to feeling less comfortable in social situations after a while. I think the first year or so I was fine and then started to notice the decline of actually wanting to interact with other people.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago*

    I work in a very small datacenter and there are around 100 people overall. But majority of people usually work from home. I am one of 3 people on site who rotates shifts to have someone onsite at all times. But everyone comes to the datacenter for various things at some point

    There are times where there are lots of people onsite and I do socialize but due to my position I am usually completely alone on the evening shifts

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    I've climbed the corporate ladder and traveled all over the world until I got near the top where the nepotism is thick. Said 'fuck that' and bailed out early.

    New plan: "Work for myself." Took me a decade to get here because of little things like health care and capital.

    Been on my own for almost 2 years now and it is glorious.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    The job you are looking for at 38 is Page but like every job within the library system. It pays worse than teaching for the no-exceptions required-education

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Have a colleague who went from over $300k/year to like a $50k/year job. Basically something to vaguely keep the lights on while his savings took care of itself. Way too young to retire, but he figures he can be ok with his savings and bonuses he had over his high paying career.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I applied for Page like 3 times at my local library, but my resume reads as disillusioned tech bro so I don't think I have much of a chance. t_t

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    If I could organize the arkane library daily with my current salary, I would be happy

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I never wanted the former, even as a kid.
    All I've ever wanted is something that's unstressful and fulfilling by doing good to others and gives me enough, both time and money, to be comfortable (and my view of comfortable in the money part is a lot less than the vast majority of people want).

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  • [+] 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    I'm 40 and getting my massage therapy license out of nowhere. Similar line of thinking.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I've heard that has a time table before your hands wear out. Is that true?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Probably! We'll see! I've read there are ways to minimize the strain, e.g. using your forearms and elbows. But I start classes in three weeks. I don't think it'll take me into old age, but if I can charge $90ish starting out per 60-minute massage, then increase a bit as I go, I should be able to get at least a few solid years out of it/my body. It's a hail mary, Lord knows there are potential downsides. 🤞

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    RMTs often work alongside physiotherapists in a practice. If that's where you end up, there might be a perk of after-hours PT sessions to keep your joints in shape. If not, then engaging the services of a physiotherapist a couple times a year can definitely help.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I actually started climbing the ladder and to be honest, I fucking hate it and am looking for a way out. I have never dealt with so many people that are willing to sacrifice their own dignity to be a sycophant for the sake of money.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Same. It fucking sucks but it's the only way I've found to making enough money to do the shit I actually want to do. Which I'm still not making enough money for because inflation keeps up with half my pay raises....

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Don't librarians in the US have to have masters degrees? I thought it was another underpaid very competitive career path where you had to wait for people to retire to find a job.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    yea it is a requirement. its competitive because there are very few places that hire them, public libraries and universities libraries, and community colleges. i assume the university ones are more better paying but more competitive. the ones at my state uni had a master in a stem degree too.

    the alternative is getting hired as a librarian assistant, but those tend to be part time and a student type of job.

    the stress free jobs are often more on the lower side of pay, or certain niche degreed jobs. librarian isnt that stress free, because you are facing patrons and students all the time, and potential crazy people, or homeless people, or the porn addicts.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago
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