Jesus, the gamesradar site is absolute ass
The data: https://weloveit.io/developers/steam-revenue-report/
Jesus, the gamesradar site is absolute ass
The data: https://weloveit.io/developers/steam-revenue-report/
A lot more than just the economy, it's like a law of nature. Even language itself obeys it
Exactly. I think you're referring to the Pareto distribution and/or Zipf's law
A centralized third party software launcher that sponsor certain games over others follow the law of greedyness not the law of nature.
That's basically the story of the whole economy.
Podcasts, music, film, paintings, novels...Linux distributions, ice cream flavor sales...literally everything.
Upvotes on lemmy posts...
You could indeed argue that lemmy follow similar patterns, for example threads posted in popular subs predates all other content. If you ask me this is a big problem and the result of a design shaped around advertising and content manipulation inherited from reddit.
Twitch streamers, YouTube channels, book best seller lists, radio play lists...
ice cream flavor sales
Strawberry's fallen on hard times. We need to seize the means of chocolate production and distribute the wealth among all our fellow flavors.
Hell, the website I get knitting patterns from has the same situation. The top 1% of designers make all the dough. But it's great to have a platform that anybody can submit patterns to. The top designers pay the bills and they keep people coming back.
The platforms also create the new top designers/performers by letting new talents submit for free.
Like live streaming, Twitch have no clue who's going to become big and who'll stay at 2 concurrent viewers. But you need to let everyone try, to be able to have the few that rises to the top
What? You never played Monopoly before? What do you think the endgame is?
Would Pareto be ecstatic or rolling in his grave at this disparity?
For profit centralized economy perhaps
Should they pool game sales earnings and distribute the money equally among developers? I can't think of any other platform that based on my own tastes recommends me games that don't even have double digit all time high concurrent players (at most just basic lists that end up burying old titles at the end of the queue) and that I end up buying.
There's plenty of valid criticism for steam, I don't understand why we should focus on nitpicking.
No, it's a byproduct of differences in skill and fitness to tasks, it's gonna happen even in centralised economies (that were never tried and if they were it wasn't real communism, I'm sure) it's just not going to be recognised and rewarded if everyone is supposedly equal.
I don’t think we should prescribe to the idea differences in skill are AS great as riches would imply.
Elon Musk is not MILLIONS of times better at making cars than the next manufacturer. Most would say he’s worse.
What will also be relevant is the degree to which companies now subvert each other. If one person got really good at baking, he could take out an ad in the paper, right? Except adspot prices have gone way up because of rich companies running the same promo 1000x into people’s eyeballs about their frozen imported bread, even though this one guy might have something people actually want.
Or, look at game companies that all have competent products but are carefully managing their release date to avoid GTAVI.
Yesn't.
All your objections are valid, however all of these factors only add noise to the equation.
The Pareto distribution still observably happens in non-centralised, non-profit driven systems.
It is a byproduct of unequal output, not market type, provided there is some sort of reward proportional to performance.
I don’t think we should prescribe to the idea differences in skill are AS great as riches would imply.
They are only in the beginning. Money has the ability to compound and, in the case of competitive, elastic markets, this is even more starkly visible.
If I make more money one year due to higher fitness/better output, I have more revenue with similar expenses to my direct competitors, so I have more profit, I get to invest more, rinse, repeat, compounding my competitive advantage more-than-linearly.
This however is just more visible in economics. In fact, I would argue it goes for any type of competitive environment; the fewer limiting factors on individual faculties the more obvious it is.
Individual sports like tennis, swimming, running, or martial arts are usually dominated by a handful of individuals, who reach the peak and then get replaced as they get older, and new, stronger athletes join the competition (or sometimes if rulesets are modified to shake up the meta, but that would also change the parameters to determine fitness).
The only scenario where this does not happen is where there is no running incentive, or only weak ones, to excel in a particular pursuit.
That's basically how art and media have always worked. This isn't a function of Steam, or even the modern economy.
That’s basically how art and media have always worked.
No, that's how advertising has always work.
There is always going to be more art produced than people want to buy - nothing Valve can do to change that. Hell, it doesn't even require capitalism - a similar ratio was seen when most art was produced via patronage half a millennia ago. If anything, Steam with whatever faults it has, democratizes it more by making it easier to discover niche stuff with limited appeal.
There are also always going to be big ass ads on steam
So just replying with meaningless and unrelated word salad now? Got it.
Dude, cmon. At least these ads are gaming ads and not some crap Ai bullshit or milfs nearby ads. That is a game store where games are to be sold. It is a no brainer to see ads for games there...
I don't see how that is "steam" economy.
That's just economy when you try to sell anything, specially anything art related.
If you made any art and try to sell it in any store the most probably amount of money made is the same number in every currency.
I don’t see how that is “steam” economy.
Valve is a for profit company that decides which games to advertise.
The advertisement algorithm is pretty much understood. It depends on wishlist and first day sales.
It's not like Gabe, or anyone, is sitting there deciding which game gets advertised and which game isn't. As far as algorithms go, steam one is pretty straightforward and fair afaik.
It’s not like Gabe, or anyone, is sitting there deciding which game gets advertised and which game isn’t.
They are indeed in charge of the ads on their website, not only they can decide what gets featured in ads but they also design the website page and the ads placement as they like.
Wouldn't they just advertise whatever makes them the most money, which would be the games people want to buy? I don't see this as being radically different from how games were before steam was popular.
Wouldn’t they just advertise whatever makes them the most money, which would be the games people want to buy?
Yes, they promote the top 1%
So, like on music industry. Millions of songs are released each year and yet only top artists get the listens.
Or, like movie/series industry where the top movies that got advertised gets viewed and art-house ones getting buried in the black hole of unknown.
And yet, some weird days artists and bands, directors and their weird movies sieve through and become hit sensation. Who knows why? (hint: they're good)
What you quoted from me and what you said after are different claims. It is disingenuous to put "Yes," in between them.
Hey op, I see a lot of your arguments in the comments.
I have a challenge.
Name 5 things Valve could implement to change this that would not be to the detriment of indie devs.
This is not a joke. You have opinions. I want to hear them.
I'm also curious (since I see you pushing a decentralized market place in the comments), how you think a decentralized marketplace would function and what would be better about it.
I’m one of those that makes most of the money off a different platform. I’m not making it because the platform is helping me. It’s inertia. I’m the best in my category and so I dominate. Same for these games.
I mean, they could start with not asking 30% of the revenue when you sell less than a million or so units.
It costs a LOT to build a global cdn with the uptime steam has. That 30% is totally justified as a platform fee imo
Especially now with cloud storage and software development costs being so high.
I mean I see your point for sure, but I also see why consistency matters too. Why would valve "punish" someone for doing well? Those big titles are also great for revenue on their side too so honestly selling more units would be even more justifiable to lower the revenue split (from a business perspective on valves side)
Idk. Just thinking out loud I guess.
That 30% is totally justified as a platform fee imo
and yet everybody hates on Apple's 30% cut...
Why would valve "punish" someone for doing well?
maybe it could be like how rich people are taxed more? (at least if rich people paid their taxes in the first place)
I don't personally hate on Apple's 30%. I hate on Apple's predatory licensing practices which demand an upfront expenditure before the first unit sells at all.
Valve provides a whole lot more developer infrastructure than Apple. Now a good argument may be that you don't use it all, but it is still provided to all.
Also the class of games on steam take up so much more space than most everything on the apple store.
Would a decentralized version of Steam do that?
Is that 30% the bulk of Valve's profit?
What do Indie developers get in exchange for Valve's 30% cut on Steam that they don't get elsewhere that charges 30% or charges less of a percentage?
So could physical retailers, so how's that working out?
I'm not going to say they can't do that. It's not a bad suggestion but it seems to be suggested continually in a vacuum without considering other factors.
Name 5 things Valve could implement to change this that would not be to the detriment of indie devs.
Valve is a for profit company and their main goal is to boost their profits to the roof (valve ceo owns an entire fleet of megayachts). They work to boost their sales not to help other people, when their salesmen lay down 5 things they could implement on the platform their main objective is to do business. Anything you implement that benefit users and devs rather than the already full valve wallet would be a positive change.
The first thing you want to implement is a less greedy and profits drive mentality, the second thing they could implement is the source code of their platform. They could implement exact sales data for each game and transparency reports on their profits, they could implement a mastodon social page and they could implement disclaimers on AAA titles warning people they are buying games from evil corporations.
So just to recap you want valve to become a non profit, and open source their platform? It seems like you're really mad at capitalism, and just chose to lash out at valve.
They could operate in a much more anti consumer way, like other game companies (Epic), they could remove user reviews, they could get rid of the ability for games to be added to the store without a publisher, but they don't.
how is Epic anti-consumer?
I don't use it, but last time I checked they still haven't implemented a review system... Also their ceo is out there saying stuff like this https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/epic-boss-tim-sweeney-blasts-steam-for-putting-ai-tags-on-games-says-move-is-irresponsible-of-valve
Edit: Can't believe I forgot buying rocket league, then removing it from steam.
You are on a free, open source and decentralized platform that share nothing with steam. This is indeed the right place where to lash out at evil corporations like valve and their billionaires ceos
The main problem I see with this is that game devs are trying to use capitalism to make money. So what you're saying is, it's alright for game devs, but not for store fronts.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Additionally though, of the major gaming retailers, Valve has the least predatory model (I'm not counting smaller game retailers in this because we need to be honest about the fact that they aren't competing in the market with Valve as far as what they offer devs).
Did you take into account the reasons that game devs choose Valve over other retailers like GOG? Or the fact that very often game devs will use Valve, GOG and other gaming retailers?
You didn't give any specifics in your answer to me and honestly I have to wonder if you even know where the majority of Valves money comes from.
Follow-up question.
How does the consumer benefit from and why should they switch to a different retailer than Valve's Steam? What is the benefit of a fediverse style retailer and how does it work?
That doesn’t make sense to me.
Here an example that you can understand: nobody should buy gasoline or use cars but many are forced to do it because they have to go to work to earn the money they need to survive. The capitalists pushing this corrupted system are forced to do it only by their own greed, they are the ones who need to be blamed before anyone else.
Additionally though, of the major gaming retailers, Valve has the least predatory model
They promote gambling to kids, the "least predatory model" it's still a predatory model.
Did you take into account the reasons that game devs choose Valve over other retailers like GOG? Or the fact that very often game devs will use Valve, GOG and other gaming retailers?
Valve managed to build a small monopoly on the videogame market and together with other tech corporation they managed to centralize internet around a bunch of service/platforms that people are now hooked to. Promoting anything outside the corporation world would result in small to zero visibility.
You didn’t give any specifics in your answer to me and honestly I have to wonder if you even know where the majority of Valves money comes from.
From taking a cut on selling games and from microtransactions.
Now i have a question for you, how does the ceo of valve spend the majority of his money?
How does the consumer benefit from and why should they switch to a different retailer than Valve’s Steam? What is the benefit of a fediverse style retailer and how does it work?
https://join-lemmy.org/docs/index.html
The whole humanity will benefit if we stop giving money to billionares and their private corporations who promote closed and centralized, for profit, evil, business models.
As you can see from about 2020 onwards, there was an absolute DELUGE of trash games. Of course the majority of games aren't going to make anything, Steam makes zero effort to curate anything. A thousand games can get released per day and the vast vast majority of them you never even notice.
Misleading. There is so much slop made from free assets just thrown together or AI programmed messes and such on steam that it should read "little more than 1% of games on steam are worth your time" indie devs get a decent amount of love, especially at launch. But steam has such a backlog of games available that it gets pretty wild. If we're counting DLCs, OSTs, and games, I'm really not surprised.
Yea the amount of shovelware and AI shit that's put on the platform is massive. Steam just does a really good job keeping that shit from taking over your front store page... unlike the playstore...dunno how it is on iOS...
If steam were doing a "really good job," none of that garbage would be on the store in the first place.
Then literally no indie games would ever get popular.
There's a difference between a quality indie game and shovelware.
Ok. So what percentage of the games launched on steam are shovelware vs quality indie games. And where is that line? And who makes that decision?
Are you joking? Are we pretending we can't tell when a game is shovelware and valve can't moderate their own platform? They just don't care.
I swear people will defend steam no matter what.
This is absolutely subjective. Assets flips could count, but I've played and enjoyed several of those. Flappy Bird style games kind of fall into this category.
This is subjective. Just because a full grown adult with different tastes doesn't like something doesn't mean it's shovelware. A 5 year old kid might love it.
But, here's a better question. How much does it cost to moderate a platform with that many games?
Because they do moderate the platform just not in a way you like.
Literally in this comments section there's someone else talking about how they delist or de-prioritize games that don't get good feedback. You just want them to not allow those games at all.
The game Horses was moderated off the platform. You just want moderation to fit your specific model that you made up in your head.
It seems that's partially taken into account:
New analysis of 99,206 Steam games illustrates just how extreme the economics can be on Valve's PC gaming emporium
Over 8,000 paid games analyzed never received a single Steam review
This report also only looks at premium games, meaning free-to-play giants like Valve's Counter-Strike are left out, as are "non-game software, adult-only titles and unreleased entries." The list of 99,206 was selected from a base of 136,281.
The only caveat is that revenue is estimated, so there can be big swings in the data.
The standard multiplier here is 35, so this research assumes one Steam review is worth 35 sales at a game's current listed price, though you can also use a more "conservative" 20 or "generous" 50 in the report's impressive graphs.
So what? The vast majority of games released on Steam are either hobby or student projects or just first time devs’ shitty pixel platformer. Many are low effort products, Steam will not even give those games “shelve space”. The algorithm will based on pre launch and launch metrics decide if it should push the game in front of customers in the recommendation sections of the store. If a game can’t even move the needle a bit after launch Steam will blackhole the game and basically make it invisible in the store unless a customer searches for it. Because even though it’s a virtual store, “shelve space” aka the recommendation section is still scarce.
The hidden gem games on Steam are rare. Every time I watch a dev’s postmortem on Youtube who talks about how little they sold I’m rarely surprised when I see the game.
Also Steam generates around $10+ Billion in revenue in a year. So the other games generate around $2 Billion. If that is generated by 2000 games that still averages to a million a game.
Also don't forget all the shovelware low effort games for farming "achievements" achievements
1 in 11 games released last year has 0 reviews.
https://steamdb.info/stats/releases/
~21.500 titles released in 2025, we've seen more than 16.000 games released this year so it will once again break a new record for titles released in a year.
That data also shows which games never got out of the “limited game status”. Around 16200 of games released in 2025 have the limited games status. Meaning these games were not making enough money or nothing at all and had not enough player engagement to unlock profile features.
If you look at the numbers of games that unlocked profile features the growth is much lower. Those are the numbers that matter anyway. 5000 games made actual money. And if we apply the Pareto principle than a thousand games made the vast majority of the new release revenue that year.
So what?
So if you release a game on steam not only you are promoting a centralized closed platform owned by a billionare but there's a good chance you are not getting much in return.
Good chance if your game didn’t do well on Steam that you didn’t make a good game that has high product-market fit in the first place and didn’t promote it properly. We are now in an era where indie devs have become millionaires from their $15 games. And I’m not just talking about Edmund McMillen and Johnathan Blow. Go back to the days of brick and mortar retail and that was nigh impossible when a small studio would earn pennies on the dollar for every sold unit.
Okay, but explain how consumer preferences are somehow Steam's fault?
If you told me it was that way because Steam was boosting AAA games and suppressing indie titles, then okay, you have a valid reason to criticize Steam for that, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Okay, but explain how consumer preferences are somehow Steam’s fault?
Valve is a for profit company, they make money by advertising games and selling them, their website is literally an ad shelf.
doesn’t seem to be the case.
It seem the case to me that they are advertising the shit out of certain games with ads as big as the entire screen.
"Walmart advertises some of the things they sell, but never advertise the off brand water" ok, and???
Would think that could apply to most markets. Almost the weird 80-20 "rule" that goes for most things.
I really dont get this, there have been and still are things you can very much criticise valve for but people come up with the most insane shit to criticise them for. "Uhh yeah this problem affecting the whole game industry is steams fault". Also the top 1% are prolly aldo much much more expensive to produce so i dont think its as bad as it sounds at first but yeah.
Pareto principle writ large.
That or Sturgeon's law.
It is not news to me that a handful of games have the most players, also considering people put low effort garbage on all stores constantly I don’t think the bottom 90% deserve anything
top 87 comments