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[–] 192 points 2 months ago (20 children)

I really think he’d have a shot at jury nullification tbh

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  • [–] 162 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Even if his defense was that he only killed a CEO and not a person, I'd acquit him.

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  • [–] 73 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    If I became president, I'd pardon him.

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  • [–] 37 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    If I became president, I’d pardon him AND give everyone a free yo-yo

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Kinda funny how when Trump pardons criminals everyone gets mad but here when someone suggests doing the exact same it’s totally fine (because this guy’s on our side…)

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  • [–] 34 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    If his defense droped a few stories of other people being ruined by the insurance industry an just kept hammering it home he totally could

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    If the jury was all Lemmings then for sure. But people here aren't as representative of the general public as they think they are. Older Americans in particular are not down with Luigi.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    It only takes one person intent on nullification to hang a jury. The prosecution can retry the case, but they have to decide if it’s worth it.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    All the old people on my social media stopped short of explicitly praising murder, but none of them objected to people saying it was cool and most said they understood. Old people, while more conservative are also more likely to have an insurance horror story of their own or someone they know. Even my the MAGA boomer acquaintance treated it with humor rather than tragedy.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    If juries were fairly selected he'd 100% get jury nullification...

    Which is why it wasn't going to happen organically in the current selection.

    It's like how to beat "straw purchase" gun laws: you just have to lie.

    If you've heard of it as a concept, that's enough to take you off. To the point it's been a strategy for a long time of people who want to avoid jury duty. It doesn't always work, because most of the time they don't really care

    Something like this, the government isn't letting anyone on who knows what it is, and especially today would investigate anyone who suddenly "learned about it" after being selected.

    So to be clear:

    1. It should have worked.

    2. It wouldn't have.

    Like, we'd have need Mario to get on the jury while wearing an obvious disguise, and they'd be taking almost as much of a risk as player 2. It just wasn't likely.

    I'm super interested in his reasoning for this, but I'd be really surprised if they let him do interviews anytime soon, and what matters more than us knowing is his legal strategies working. We just gotta wait and see.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    I have lied about my intentions on every jury and I tell my loved ones to do the same.

    Don’t disclose it ahead of time, obviously.

    They can investigate it all they like, but all you have to do is never say the phrase “jury nullification” and start talking about how you’re not sure this should be a crime at all. I’m not saying it would necessarily work, but it’s not as though jury nullification is a wild thing that only exists in the US, it’s a fundamental part of how juries work- acknowledging it isn’t suspicious (again, without the name).

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  • [–] 71 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I woulda nullified 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    pretty much any crime that isn't a sex crime or a murder of a civilian, i'm 100% not guilty

    those i'll pay attention and give a proper read on the case, but everyone else gets to walk. There's enough fuckin people in jail.

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  • [–] 33 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Guilty of what, public littering? I guess he did leave a pile of garbage on the street.

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  • [–] 62 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    This is how they railroad innocent people into pleading guilty for crimes they didn't commit, just pile on charges to make it too risky to prove your innocence!

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  • [+] -36 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    So he didn’t commit it, but he’s also a hero for doing it? (The thing he didn’t do)

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago

    The idea of shooting health insurance CEOs dead is heroic. Luigi is the current godwalker of the archetype, to borrow from old rpg Unknown Armies. (Godwalker being the best living representation, subject to the collective beliefs of humanity). It doesn't really matter if he did it or not. The idea is there.

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  • [–] 191 points 2 months ago (56 children)

    I really don't understand how and why he doesn't rather receive a huge award and a statue in his honor for having eliminated a rotten and abominable scourge and leech like that monster was and as in fact any CEO of any insurance company is, instead of prosecuting him as a criminal. Like, insurance industry is what should be illegal, he did only the correct thing.

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  • [+] -49 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    Gee, could it be that murder is bad? Won't cry any tears for this asshole getting offed, but surely you can't believe this act contributes in any positive way to reform of the health care system? There are thousands of others ready to replace every greedy CEO. He was a symptom, not a cause.

    By the way, practically every universal health care system has an insurance industry in some shape or form.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    It's not murder until there is a conviction.

    UHC approved so many insurance claims after the CEO got offed that they are currently being sued by their shareholders for failing to reject enough claims and potentially hurting shareholder revenue streams.

    I'd say it turned into a pretty positive act.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    Killing 100s of thousands if not millions of people by denying them healthcare is infinitely worse and Brian Thompson and all these other fucks were active participants in that. They set the policy the rest of their companies follow. Murdering every single one of them is a net good for the world and is the only option left since our fucking useless politicians aren't doing anything about it.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    The health care industry (mostly) plays by the rules set by legislators. They are, in the end, responsible, and know very well how to fix the system (which would be extremely easy) but deliberately choose not to, sending hundreds of thousands to their deaths. Is that worse than murdering some asshole? Yes, absolutely, but that's no justification. Eating a pack of razor blades is worse than eating a pile of shit, but doing neither is also an option.

    Offing Thompson has achieved nothing other than improving the business of private security contractors.

    There is plenty the American people could do to force legislators to do their job, but they choose not to as Americans are just rather meek and servile when it comes to their government, which is of course how its current comically corrupt and incompetent government can continue with the blessing of its people, and also why Americans would blame health care executives rather than the ones making the rules for health care executives. Maybe try organizing another light-hearted protest on a Saturday afternoon before going back to your jobs?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It didn't accomplish nothing. It's a documented fact that more healthcare was approved after Thompson was murdered. People are alive today as a direct result of that. It also demonstrates that these companies don't HAVE to reject all these claims, they're doing it because they want to.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Documented how? In the immediate aftermath of the attack, UnitedHealth explicitly stated it wouldn't change its policies:

    UnitedHealth Group CEO Andrew Witty defended the company's claim denial practices in an internal video which was leaked after the fatal shooting of Thompson. Recorded on December 5, the day after Thompson's death, Witty emphasized the company's role in ensuring "safe and appropriate" care and that the insurance giant will continue to prevent "unnecessary care”.


    It also demonstrates that these companies don’t HAVE to reject all these claims, they’re doing it because they want to.

    Sure, and poverty can be solved if rich people would just give some of their money to poor people. But we know this isn't a solution that actually works if you want to fix poverty, you need government legislation.

    Even if there was some health care insurance company that suddenly saw the light and started approving all the care people needed, it would just go bankrupt in favour of a more unscrupulous competitor - as long as the system and legislators allow it.

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  • Except that murder is justifiable if it's against someone that murders for pleasure and twisted benefits, like Thompson. Murdering someone with no reason or because of bad reasons is bad, and Thompson did that, so killing Thompson is good because he gave a good reason to do so. If someone's gonna kill you, you either kill him or get killed yourself. If a genocide is going to get to the power, the only sensible thing is to kill him and all those who are with him because these people won't understand by the words and not even by political or diplomatical means, because they won't listen to anyone else than themselves.

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  • [+] -130 points 2 months ago (38 children)

    Fuck, the fact that this hateful, stupid, and barbaric comment sits here with 19 upvotes and zero downvotes kind of shatters my illusions about what kind of people I am interacting with here. Enough scrolling for me.

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  • [–] 57 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    With how aggressively they're destroying the planet and the poor, at a certain point, putting a stop to them becomes an act of self defense.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago

    becomes an act of self defense.

    I really wanted his defense to be that the subsequent increase in claim approvals saved enough lives that this was really more of stopping a mass shooter.

    It's a jury trial, they just have to convince 12 people it was for the greater good and this was just a trolley problem and not a revenge killing over a personal grievance.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    Reminds me of defenders of Israel. Screaming anti-Semitism while these guys are committing atrocities.

    I can live with a system that causes mass killings but I draw the line at killing people that enable it.

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    The lack of universal health care in the US accounts for an estimated annual death increase well north of one hundred thousand people. It's the oligarchs who are behind that push against it.

    Wake me up when you get angry at the people corrupting our democracy and maybe i'll listen to your complaints. Until then, pardon me for supporting action against the people fucking our country.

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  • [+] -28 points 2 months ago* (6 children)

    What action are you taking about? Shooting a guy in the head? What problem does that exactly solve? He didn’t even shoot an oligarch, he shot an executive.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    what the fuck do you think an oligarch is, if not the CEO of literal Bond Villain corporation that is 4th in the world in $?

    Like for real. Explain yourself.

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  • [+] -11 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Oligarchs are persons, not corporations. An executive is an employee of a corporation. Examples for current American oligarchs include Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, not employees of the companies they own.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    The board members of companies run it, and are people. The executive runs the company on behalf of the board (and sometimes are on the board). Those people absolutely can and should be held accountable.

    I feel like you’re being disingenuous though, you know companies can be a part of the oligarchy too. Brian Thompson was an oligarch parasite that needed to be excised from society.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Nah, at the very moment that someone starts doing monstruous stuff to the innocent, they stop being persons, they lose their humanity, they become monsters, and deserve to be treated as such.

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  • [–] 48 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I don't celebrate the murder of a United Healthcare CEO, whom by the way denied more Healthcare claims than any other insurance company in the world (by a decent margin). But I sure as hell don't feel sorry for the guy.

    His policies can be directly tied to thousands of cases where people who needed life saving treatment, died so they could save a few bucks.

    But yeah, sit up on your high horse and feel superior to everybody else. You're lucky you haven't had to experience a health crisis that could potentially determine whether you live or die, or have a job.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    IDK it sounds to me like Luigi killed one guy and saved more than one life.

    Is that a bad thing now? Moral math says give Luigi a medal and a ride home.

    And then close down every health insurance company as Cancer Profiteering and fund a proper national system.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago

    a great man once said: "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few"

    that one ceo died and made so many other health insurers across the US scared that many approved claims they wouldn't have and didn't before saving countless lives.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago

    Actually for the first month or two after the shooting, insurance companies across the board did start approving more claims. The system has resumed course since, but for a brief window, if you had medical issues you could actually have a decent chance at getting them paid for.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 months ago

    Dude you sympathise with Brian Thompson? The guy responsible for letting paying members die horrifically painful deaths for profit? Do you not see how hateful, stupid and barbaric that makes YOU? Reflect on yourself.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Brian Thompson, through his words and actions, caused the deaths of thousands of people

    I'm not taking a stance on the moraloty of his murder, but is it even a tiny bit surprising people believe he deserved it given that fact?

    Murder via a pen may generally be tolerated by society, but that isn't universal

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    How quaint of you to have the illusion of civility in this post-pandemic world. Get off your fake morale high horse and go back to watching fox

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Yeah, it's hateful and barbaric, but not stupid, and it's what anyone who is barbaric and hateful deserves; I believe in radical proportionality, thus what you give is what you deserve to receive back, exactly, no more and no less (if you give someone five punches in the face with a given force, you deserve exactly five punches in the face with an amount of force proportional to your resistance). You can't expect a damn serial killer protected by millions of dollars in total assets and the title of CEO to receive flowers. And proportionally to his crime, a simple stay in jail is equivalent to giving him a bed of roses.

    So, if you hate others with no reason and kill others with no reason, you deserve to be hated and killed because you're giving reasons for that.

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  • [+] -25 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Saying “insurance should be illegal” is very near the top of the list of stupidest things that one can say.

    You also need to work more on your radical proportionality idea.

    I believe in radical proportionality, thus what you give is what you deserve to receive back, exactly, no more and no less (if you give someone five punches in the face with a given force, you deserve exactly five punches in the face with an amount of force proportional to your resistance).

    I don’t know what you even mean by “proportional to your resistance” and how you quantify punch force and resistance, but if it’s exactly no more and no less than what you got, how is it also proportional to something else? Like I can’t eat exactly 2 pounds of ice cream, proportional to my belly circumference. It’s either one or the other.

    Killing somebody is a pretty intense act, I imagine. A sane person doesn’t take another’s life in cold blood. What LM did is not a sane thing to do, regardless of what one thinks about the victim and the victims’ personal responsibility in other people’s suffering. Because it is not a sane thing to do, it’s futile debating its rationale.

    I also don’t think that this murder should get special treatment on some utilitarian grounds, such as because it’s a heroic act that saved the lives of millions. I don’t think there is any concrete benefit of the murder on any specific healthcare, welfare, or health equity issue. Where are the masses who got their health back thanks to LM?

    So what are you exactly celebrating? What would the statues commemorate? A poor insane man, killing a company executive, replaceable as a professional in the organization, and irreplaceable as a person in his family. Pure insanity and suffering, with no benefit, no winners. It’s a fucking sad and tragic story. It’s a powerful story undeniably, that’s why people follow it, but there is nothing to celebrate about it.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago

    Saying “insurance should be illegal” is very near the top of the list of stupidest things that one can say.

    You should fucking learn to read. I'm not saying that insurance per se should be illegal, what I'm saying is that the industry around it should be illegal, and that's something totally different. Insurance should exist but should be free, universal and unconditional, and, above all, public, efficient and decentralized, not a damn oligopoly that uses people's lives as mere stepping stones to achieve more wealth.

    I don’t know what you even mean by “proportional to your resistance” and how you quantify punch force and resistance, but if it’s exactly no more and no less than what you got, how is it also proportional to something else? Like I can’t eat exactly 2 pounds of ice cream, proportional to my belly circumference. It’s either one or the other.

    If I punched you in the face with no reason with a force of 5 Newtons, and you could resist 10 Newtons, then you should be able to punch me in the face with 10 Newtons in return if I could resist 20 Newtons. It's a pretty simplified example but illustrates what I mean. If I can resist the double of you and I punched you with a force equal to the half of your resistence, then you should be able to punch me with a force equal to the half of my resistence, in other words. It's so simple that the fact that you can't understand it says really much about you...

    Killing somebody is a pretty intense act, I imagine. A sane person doesn’t take another’s life in cold blood. What LM did is not a sane thing to do, regardless of what one thinks about the victim and the victims’ personal responsibility in other people’s suffering. Because it is not a sane thing to do, it’s futile debating its rationale.

    It's only insane if you kill someone that never killed nobody. But that CEO killed many people. I even still think that Mangione's act was a very soft and benevolent, I believe that said CEO deserved one of the slowest, most tortuous and painful deaths conceivable, because that is exactly how most of the people who were wrongly denied insurance died.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago

    Hey you know how sometimes in society, a lunatic runs around the town square with a gun shooting all kinds of people? Dead bodies everywhere, like they're filming Heat 2?

    Then one cop steps up and fires the perfect shot, taking the bad guy down. No more victims.

    The health care CEO was the lunatic shooter and Luigi was (allegedly) the cop.

    You'd cheer that cop. That's what these people are doing, like it or not, agree or not. That is what they are doing.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I bet you'd love the guy who killed Hitler.

    (we can smell the conservative from here)

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